Police arrest at least 20 as protesters clash at pro-Trump rally in Berkeley

[Dashinka 24,871]

10 hours ago, ccneat said:

 

 

You don't need to be left or right to be offended by the hatred that was on display in Berkeley.  It is just a bad scene and had nothing really to do the Tax Day protests or Pro Trump support.  If Trump supporters don't want to disassociate from these groups then so be it. 

Did anyone here associate with this group.  You are right, there was hatred on display at Berkeley which is pretty standard at that cesspool, but the hatred be emanating from extremists on both sides and if you believe that extremists define the political direction of both sides then I have a bridge to sell you. 

[bcking 3,157]

7 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Really, so we are fully in support of these lunatics.  This is the perfect example of what many of us have been talking about in many threads where the MDL labels anyone not fully on board with their narrative the worst thing that comes to mind.  In this case, we are women hating white supremacists.  It this viewpoint wasn't so sad, I would be laughing.

How is his generalizing any different than yours?

 

14 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I think there are a lot of MDL types that would advocate someone committing violence on Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, or Tomi Lahren.  Of course they don't consider this wrong as again, if people don't agree with the narratives of the MDL, they must be silenced in anyway possible.

 

It sounds like you adhere as strongly to your narrative as the MDL adheres to theirs.

[Dashinka 24,871]

20 minutes ago, bcking said:

How is his generalizing any different than yours?

 

 

It sounds like you adhere as strongly to your narrative as the MDL adheres to theirs.

It's not really generalizing if the facts back up the opinion.  As OriZ has so eloquently stated several times in this thread and others, we don't see these vociferous protests when a left leaning speaker comes to a campus for speaking, but mention a conservative and all hell breaks loose.  If it is a somewhat popular conservative, then they must be destroyed.  I would never protest a leftist from speaking their words no matter how uninformed they may be. It is their right to do so, as it is the right of a conservative to also be able to speak.  When you can show me a leftist being forced off a college campus and not being allowed to speak, then we can have the debate as to which side is trying to limit political free speech.  So yes, I adhere to a strong narrative of free political speech.  Can you say the same thing?

 

Going back to the OP link from this thread, there was a group of what is called the 3% (honestly, I have no idea what they are, so I will have to do some research) that announced a protest in Berkeley, and almost immediately, there was an announcement of the anit-fascists group was going to gather at the same time (it is interesting that they call themselves anti-fascists when they seem to want to limit free political speech).  It seems it would have been more prudent for the second group to wait a few hours and hold their rally to avoid any potential violence, but no, this might not make it to the national news.  Like I said before, both groups have the freedom to say what they want politically (I think most here are familiar with the criminal limitations of free speech "fire" in a theatre, etc.), and I for one want them to speak so we can identify the whack jobs on both sides and marginalize them.  It seems as if these groups are better marginalized on the right than the left, but this is just opinion based on the fact that the left seems to be made up of a lot of smaller ideological groups that often times have competing views.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[OriZ 3,157]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

I think there are a lot of MDL types that would advocate someone committing violence on Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, or Tomi Lahren.  Of course they don't consider this wrong as again, if people don't agree with the narratives of the MDL, they must be silenced in anyway possible.

You know, the next time I see val around here I just might ask her if it's still ok to punch a nazi in the face if that nazi is female.

 

24 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It's not really generalizing if the facts back up the opinion.  As OriZ has so eloquently stated several times in this thread and others, we don't see these vociferous protests when a left leaning speaker comes to a campus for speaking, but mention a conservative and all hell breaks loose.  If it is a somewhat popular conservative, then they must be destroyed.  I would never protest a leftist from speaking their words no matter how uninformed they may be. It is their right to do so, as it is the right of a conservative to also be able to speak.  When you can show me a leftist being forced off a college campus and not being allowed to speak, then we can have the debate as to which side is trying to limit political free speech.  So yes, I adhere to a strong narrative of free political speech.  Can you say the same thing?

 

Going back to the OP link from this thread, there was a group of what is called the 3% (honestly, I have no idea what they are, so I will have to do some research) that announced a protest in Berkeley, and almost immediately, there was an announcement of the anit-fascists group was going to gather at the same time (it is interesting that they call themselves anti-fascists when they seem to want to limit free political speech).  It seems it would have been more prudent for the second group to wait a few hours and hold their rally to avoid any potential violence, but no, this might not make it to the national news.  Like I said before, both groups have the freedom to say what they want politically (I think most here are familiar with the criminal limitations of free speech "fire" in a theatre, etc.), and I for one want them to speak so we can identify the whack jobs on both sides and marginalize them.  It seems as if these groups are better marginalized on the right than the left, but this is just opinion based on the fact that the left seems to be made up of a lot of smaller ideological groups that often times have competing views.

 (closest thing I could find to hitting the nail on the head).

 

And as far as I know the 3 percenters are against government infringement of the constitution, Hardly something that makes you a nazi.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

56 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Did anyone here associate with this group.  You are right, there was hatred on display at Berkeley which is pretty standard at that cesspool, but the hatred be emanating from extremists on both sides and if you believe that extremists define the political direction of both sides then I have a bridge to sell you. 

Yes positive sentiment for some of the groups was explicit on this thread.

 

Was this a Pro Trump rally?  If so do Trump supporters embrace the antisemitic and white nationalism that was on display? We can see the photos.

 If not why defend a group of thugs who only went to Berkeley hoping for physical confrontation to further their agenda While attempting to ride Trump coattails? 

[Dashinka 24,871]

17 minutes ago, OriZ said:

You know, the next time I see val around here I just might ask her if it's still ok to punch a nazi in the face if that nazi is female.

 

 (closest thing I could find to hitting the nail on the head).

 

And as far as I know the 3 percenters are against government infringement of the constitution, Hardly something that makes you a nazi.

Val hasn't been around the last few days.  Was that her on the video?

 

 

Yes, what is the world coming to where you are labeled a Nazi, or fascists, or whatever for actually defending the constitution?

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[bcking 3,157]

52 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It's not really generalizing if the facts back up the opinion.  As OriZ has so eloquently stated several times in this thread and others, we don't see these vociferous protests when a left leaning speaker comes to a campus for speaking, but mention a conservative and all hell breaks loose.  If it is a somewhat popular conservative, then they must be destroyed.  I would never protest a leftist from speaking their words no matter how uninformed they may be. It is their right to do so, as it is the right of a conservative to also be able to speak.  When you can show me a leftist being forced off a college campus and not being allowed to speak, then we can have the debate as to which side is trying to limit political free speech.  So yes, I adhere to a strong narrative of free political speech.  Can you say the same thing?

 

Going back to the OP link from this thread, there was a group of what is called the 3% (honestly, I have no idea what they are, so I will have to do some research) that announced a protest in Berkeley, and almost immediately, there was an announcement of the anit-fascists group was going to gather at the same time (it is interesting that they call themselves anti-fascists when they seem to want to limit free political speech).  It seems it would have been more prudent for the second group to wait a few hours and hold their rally to avoid any potential violence, but no, this might not make it to the national news.  Like I said before, both groups have the freedom to say what they want politically (I think most here are familiar with the criminal limitations of free speech "fire" in a theatre, etc.), and I for one want them to speak so we can identify the whack jobs on both sides and marginalize them.  It seems as if these groups are better marginalized on the right than the left, but this is just opinion based on the fact that the left seems to be made up of a lot of smaller ideological groups that often times have competing views.

First off, I specifically quoted another post you made and you didn't comment on that. I was specifically talking about you "generalizing" and saying "a lot of MDL types that would advocate someone committing violence on Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, or Tomi Lahren.". You commented that you didn't think it was appropriate to lump a bunch of people on the right into a category, and yet you had just lumped a bunch of people in the left into a "violent" category.

 

Secondly,

 

Nobody is trying to "limit free political speech". Scheduling a protest at the same time as another protest is not "silencing free speech". Freedom of speech is protection from the government. Our country was not built to be one giant "camp circle" where we pass around a baton and wait our turns to speak. We have the freedom to speak our mind, and we are allowed to do so while someone else is speaking through mind. There is nothing to protect anyone from a crowd yelling louder than them.

 

That shouldn't be confused with violent protests, which I've said already multiple times I don't agree with. But just the act of scheduling a protest at the same time to yell louder is perfectly fine. You are allowed to do that in this country without limiting free speech. It still isn't clear to me who started the "violence" at this particular event. I'm sure whatever someone saw as the "first act of violence" likely wasn't the first. These things usually always start with 1 or 2 people getting into a physical fight, and then it escalates from there. To say that the "left" group scheduled their protest at the same time to encite violence...I could just as easily say that the "right-wing" group scheduled their speech/protest in Berkeley INTENTIONALLY to escalate to violence. Everyone knows Berkeley is very liberal. They were clearly planning it there to try to encourage people to pick a fight. Hence why they had a "citizens militia" or whatever they called it.

Edited April 18, 2017 by bcking

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

49 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It's not really generalizing if the facts back up the opinion.  As OriZ has so eloquently stated several times in this thread and others, we don't see these vociferous protests when a left leaning speaker comes to a campus for speaking, but mention a conservative and all hell breaks loose.  If it is a somewhat popular conservative, then they must be destroyed.  I would never protest a leftist from speaking their words no matter how uninformed they may be. It is their right to do so, as it is the right of a conservative to also be able to speak.  When you can show me a leftist being forced off a college campus and not being allowed to speak, then we can have the debate as to which side is trying to limit political free speech.  So yes, I adhere to a strong narrative of free political speech.  Can you say the same thing?

 

Going back to the OP link from this thread, there was a group of what is called the 3% (honestly, I have no idea what they are, so I will have to do some research) that announced a protest in Berkeley, and almost immediately, there was an announcement of the anit-fascists group was going to gather at the same time (it is interesting that they call themselves anti-fascists when they seem to want to limit free political speech).  It seems it would have been more prudent for the second group to wait a few hours and hold their rally to avoid any potential violence, but no, this might not make it to the national news.  Like I said before, both groups have the freedom to say what they want politically (I think most here are familiar with the criminal limitations of free speech "fire" in a theatre, etc.), and I for one want them to speak so we can identify the whack jobs on both sides and marginalize them.  It seems as if these groups are better marginalized on the right than the left, but this is just opinion based on the fact that the left seems to be made up of a lot of smaller ideological groups that often times have competing views.

No one here has defended the antifa as a group or their actions. The irony about the antifa is that they have no ideology , just fascist tacticts.3 pecenters have advocated armed struggle against the government to protect their view of the constitution.

[OriZ 3,157]

4 minutes ago, ccneat said:

No one here has defended the antifa as a group or their actions. The irony about the antifa is that they have no ideology , just fascist tacticts.3 pecenters have advocated armed struggle against the government to protect their view of the constitution.

In some cases that's necessary, just look at Turkey. I'm not saying we're there yet, or that we'll ever be there, but there are reasons we have the right to bear arms. Ironic that you call it "their view of the constitutional" considering it is a constitutional right.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

7 minutes ago, OriZ said:

In some cases that's necessary, just look at Turkey. I'm not saying we're there yet, or that we'll ever be there, but there are reasons we have the right to bear arms. Ironic that you call it "their view of the constitutional" considering it is a constitutional right.

You seem to be confusing the constitutional right to bear arms and the unlawful use of arms to resist federal officials executing their constitutional mandated duty. Once you no longer support an interpretation of the law by the supreme court and pledge to shoot police or officials defending the law you are close to anarchy and you will wind up with a mess.

[IAMX 3,055]

31 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Val hasn't been around the last few days.  Was that her on the video?

 

 

Yes, what is the world coming to where you are labeled a Nazi, or fascists, or whatever for actually defending the constitution?

 

Go to California (especially Berkeley), where you can be immersed in the culture of getting offended at the American flag, getting offended at enforcing immigration laws, getting scared about people owning guns legally, having free speech, etc. I feel bad for people, especially up North/East/Southeast, that live in the same state.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

38 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Val hasn't been around the last few days.  Was that her on the video?

 

 

Yes, what is the world coming to where you are labeled a Nazi, or fascists, or whatever for actually defending the constitution?

 

Take a look at the pics on the thread where Antisemetic  and white nationalist sentiments were on display by protestors . 

I don't know if those folks have anything to do with the 3%rs or the protest organizors but those are not things Trump supporters should be embracing.

[CaliCat 3,957]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Hillary never once denounced the National Man Boy Live Association.  How sick is it , that she supports child molesters and pedophiles. 

Neither did Trump. So, in addition to the KKK, he also supports these guys.

 

A winner, by any other name!

[bcking 3,157]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Hillary never once denounced the National Man Boy Live Association.  How sick is it , that she supports child molesters and pedophiles. 

Please show us a statement from the NMBLA supporting Hillary, or information about a rally that they organised held in her honor, or pretty much any other show of support that would suggest she needs to denounce them.

[CaliCat 3,957]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

 

 

Yes, what is the world coming to where you are labeled a Nazi, or fascists, or whatever for actually defending the constitution?

 

 

These people are being labeled Nazi and fascists, because of their words and deeds. They are not defending the constitution, they are not patriots, nor are they patriotic.

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by CaliCat