Hillary Clinton Explains Why She Really Lost to Trump

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Yeah I get that. I guess for some reason I just never cared. When it comes to friends I always took quality over quantity. Luckily my wife is the same way so neither of us gets to drag the other out often  We keep to ourselves for the most part.

I have a good group of people mostly from medical school/residency. All political orientations (my best man from my wedding is from a conservative orthodox Jewish family). None of them speak like that.

 

My wife's group of people are all from her industry, a mix of scientists, lawyers, accountants. None of them speak like that. A few of her friends from secondary school have recently dated men that speak like that, but they don't last very long.

 

In the real world I think they are actually a minority. Perhaps they are just loud enough that they think they are bigger than they are.

[IAMX 3,055]

15 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Yeah I get that. I guess for some reason I just never cared. When it comes to friends I always took quality over quantity. Luckily my wife is the same way so neither of us gets to drag the other out often  We keep to ourselves for the most part.

Heh.

 

My wife has this sweet little Asian girl routine. She's born and raised Canadian, despite her family, so overtly polite. You'd never guess her to swear like a sailor and complain about people more than I do. She only does it at home. And don't get me started on her family, many of them are first gen immigrants from China, Laos, Thailand, etc., and are among the most openly racist people I've encountered in my years. Trumps locker room talk looks like a cakewalk. It's impossible to believe that even an introvert hasn't hung around people who talk among friends the way Trump did that guy who's name I forget now (because I don't care about him). There is absolutely nothing uncommon about that.

Edited April 12, 2017 by IAMX

[OriZ 3,157]

11 minutes ago, bcking said:

I have a good group of people mostly from medical school/residency. All political orientations (my best man from my wedding is from a conservative orthodox Jewish family). None of them speak like that.

 

My wife's group of people are all from her industry, a mix of scientists, lawyers, accountants. None of them speak like that. A few of her friends from secondary school have recently dated men that speak like that, but they don't last very long.

 

In the real world I think they are actually a minority. Perhaps they are just loud enough that they think they are bigger than they are.

Yeah I believe in the adult world they are a minority, in the teen world probably a majority lol. I don't think America is any more sexist than other countries btw. It is no different here than in the UK or in Israel or anywhere else for that matter. 

[OriZ 3,157]

4 minutes ago, IAMX said:

Heh.

 

My wife has this sweet little Asian girl routine. She's born and raised Canadian, despite her family, so overtly polite. You'd never guess her to swear like a sailor and complain about people more than I do. And don't get me started on her family, many of them are first gen immigrants from China, Laos, Thailand, etc., and are among the most openly racist people I've encountered in my years. Trumps locker room talk looks like a cakewalk. It's impossible to believe that even an introvert hasn't hung around people who talk among friends the way Trump did that guy who's name I forget now (because I don't care about him).

Hanging around and being an active participant are two different things. I've been around it but none of them were my friends and I never participated. I always thought it was dumb quite frankly. Just not my style. As far as swearing, completely different story...my wife and I swear all the time.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

My life has been US Army Infantry and Logistics,  Industrial management and automobile sales.

 

I thought everybody swore like a sailor and talked smack. 😃

[smilesammich 10,727]

to be true to the facts here, trump was recounting his actual actions. not talking smack or simply cussing.

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

My life has been US Army Infantry and Logistics,  Industrial management and automobile sales.

 

I thought everybody swore like a sailor and talked smack. 😃

Just general swearing is fine. It's all social construct anyway. In some communities the words are essentially like saying "um" between words. People don't even know they are doing it. "I really f***ing want to f***ing go to the f***ing bar right now!" ... You can just remove the f bombs and the sentence reads the same. 

 

Being in a group of guys and specifically talking about, and objectifying, women is not appropriate. It doesn't matter how often it happens, and in what age groups. It is never appropriate. It can be "mildly excused" when they are teenagers who don't know any better. There is really no excuse once you are an adult.

 

And again - just because a lot of people do it, doesn't make it okay. Whether something is the "right thing" or not is independent of how many people do it. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

9 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

to be true to the facts here, trump was recounting his actual actions. not talking smack or simply cussing.

And I think the key take away was "They let you"

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

Just general swearing is fine. It's all social construct anyway. In some communities the words are essentially like saying "um" between words. People don't even know they are doing it. "I really f***ing want to f***ing go to the f***ing bar right now!" ... You can just remove the f bombs and the sentence reads the same. 

 

Being in a group of guys and specifically talking about, and objectifying, women is not appropriate. It doesn't matter how often it happens, and in what age groups. It is never appropriate. It can be "mildly excused" when they are teenagers who don't know any better. There is really no excuse once you are an adult.

 

And again - just because a lot of people do it, doesn't make it okay. Whether something is the "right thing" or not is independent of how many people do it. 

The hard part, after being around it 50 hours a week, is turning it off when you 're join normal society 

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

And I think the key take away was "They let you"

clearly, you're a man and trust trump's judgement of what women want. 

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

The hard part, after being around it 50 hours a week, is turning it off when you 're join normal society 

The swearing or the sexism? 

 

The swearing I can imagine would be hard. The sexism seems pretty easy to me. For me there is nothing "natural" about joking about breasts or vaginas or sexual conquests etc... 

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

And I think the key take away was "They let you"

A further key word I would say is "let"

 

Not want, not "ask you". They "let" you. Let just means that it is allowed, it does not imply it is desired. He could have just as easily said that when a women is drunk and passed out they "let you" do anything.

 

If we were together I may "let" you joke about raping a woman, but I wouldn't want you to do it. (Just to be clear I'm not saying you specifically actually joke about those things)

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

13 hours ago, IAMX said:

Heh.

 

My wife has this sweet little Asian girl routine. She's born and raised Canadian, despite her family, so overtly polite. You'd never guess her to swear like a sailor and complain about people more than I do. She only does it at home. And don't get me started on her family, many of them are first gen immigrants from China, Laos, Thailand, etc., and are among the most openly racist people I've encountered in my years. Trumps locker room talk looks like a cakewalk. It's impossible to believe that even an introvert hasn't hung around people who talk among friends the way Trump did that guy who's name I forget now (because I don't care about him). There is absolutely nothing uncommon about that.

Ahh the smiling humble sweet little Asian girl shtick.  I too walk with such s woman 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

11 minutes ago, bcking said:

The swearing or the sexism? 

 

The swearing I can imagine would be hard. The sexism seems pretty easy to me. For me there is nothing "natural" about joking about breasts or vaginas or sexual conquests etc... 

A further key word I would say is "let"

 

Not want, not "ask you". They "let" you. Let just means that it is allowed, it does not imply it is desired. He could have just as easily said that when a women is drunk and passed out they "let you" do anything.

 

If we were together I may "let" you joke about raping a woman, but I wouldn't want you to do it. (Just to be clear I'm not saying you specifically actually joke about those things)

A drunk passed out person cant let you do anything that is an absurd analogy. 

 

If a woman let's you do something it's not rape. 

 

The first time you kissed you wife , did she let you or did she give you a formal written invitation. 

 

I dare say most sensual encounters are because someone did something and someone else let them 

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

A drunk passed out person cant let you do anything that is an absurd analogy. 

 

If a woman let's you do something it's not rape. 

 

The first time you kissed you wife , did she let you or did she give you a formal written invitation. 

 

I dare say most sensual encounters are because someone did something and someone else let them 

My wife wanted me to kiss her. Sexual encounters should occur when both people want it to happen.

 

The word let is not necessarily the same as want. Perhaps the "unconscious" analogy isn't the best, but instead how about analogies involving coercion? 

 

If someone has a gun to your head you may "let them" take your wallet and watch. You don't want them to. If someone has a gun to your head you may "let" them grab your genitals if they threaten to kill you, but you don't want them to.

 

Let can apply to situations where it is coerced. Want would not. If he was talking specifically about women who were eager to have him grab their genitals, the proper and more specific word would have been "want". "They want you to do it". 

 

Keep in mind also not all coercision is as blatant as a 'gun to your head'. People can use other forms of power to coerce and make someone "let" them do things.

 

EDIT: 

 

Even when I just read your last line I cringe a little. Doesn't sound that sensual to describe an encounter by saying that a man "did something" and the woman "let him". The only way that is really sexy is if you are into the whole "power fetish" thing, which is exactly the point here.

Edited April 12, 2017 by bcking

[IAMX 3,055]

39 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

My life has been US Army Infantry and Logistics,  Industrial management and automobile sales.

 

I thought everybody swore like a sailor and talked smack. 😃

Nah man the left don't do that stuff they're refined and professional. Hence wearing hats with a woman's genitals on them.