EXCLUSIVE: John Podesta May Have Violated Federal Law By Not Disclosing 75,000 Stock Shares

[IAMX 3,055]

4 minutes ago, bcking said:

Voting for Hillary wasn't pointless because she had an actual chance to win. Heck she won more total votes.

 

I'm just distinguishing between being "theoretical" and being "practical". In the case of Presidential elections I choose to practical. I see no benefit if pretending that anyone other than a Republican or Democrat can be elected President in the foreseeable future. I also see no point in pretending that an Independent, if they did ultimately get elected President would somehow "come from behind" to such a degree that they had <10% support prior to the election and then somehow won. 

 

Trump was behind for sure, but he wasn't an independent. That is a whole different level of "You are going to lose". Even the candidates themselves will talk about it knowing they will lose. The problem is they think that having a "good run" will do something for their party, and I just don't think it does. Expanding their role in local government will do a lot more to help them grow.

 

I'm also not telling anyone to vote in any way. You are free to continue to vote Independent if it pleases you. I was just stating my opinion on the matter. No matter how much I may dislike the two primary candidates, I won't vote independent. I'll just abstain. That is theoretical though because so far there have been cases where I have disliked both, but I have always disliked one far more than the other. I'm a pragmatist so I'll support the lesser of two evils since practically speaking we are going to end up with 1 of the 2. 

There is nothing practical about deferring your individuality for the masses to decide.

 

Did you take a vote from others on who they think your partner should be? 

Edited April 4, 2017 by SRVT

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, SRVT said:

There is nothing practical about deferring your individuality for the masses to decide.

 

Did you take a vote from others on who they think your partner should be? 

My "individuality" is not defined by who I ticked on a piece of paper (or computer) to be President. That is way way way down on the list of things I use to define myself.

 

Considering the "popular vote" doesn't even elect the President, it is even LESS of a representation of everyone's "individuality". If it was, we would have a different President right now. We haven't even begun to talk about the "winner take all" method of the electoral college and how that ruins the "individuality" of a Presidential election vote even more.

 

If your identify yourself based on who you voted for President, more power to you. I am practical because I recognize I have very little control unless I move to a swing state. Even then though, we are still only talking about the two primary candidates.

[IAMX 3,055]

Just now, bcking said:

My "individuality" is not defined by who I ticked on a piece of paper (or computer) to be President. That is way way way down on the list of things I use to define myself.

 

Considering the "popular vote" doesn't even elect the President, it is even LESS of a representation of everyone's "individuality". If it was, we would have a different President right now. We haven't even begun to talk about the "winner take all" method of the electoral college and how that ruins the "individuality" of a Presidential election vote even more.

 

If your identify yourself based on who you voted for President, more power to you. I am practical because I recognize I have very little control unless I move to a swing state. Even then though, we are still only talking about the two primary candidates.

I don't take a choice for President lightly. I pick who I think is the best candidate (not as you mind bogglingly declare identifying myself based on other people, pretty sure voting how everyone else is, is actually the very thing you attribute here), either reflected in my personal views about given subjects, or reflected in who I think best represents competence for the job. It's unfortunate if you think of it merely as ticking on a piece of paper but given all the whining, protesting, and flooding the internet with post-election tears so many leftists have done, many of whom didn't even bother "ticking on a piece of paper" or tapping a few times on a computer screen, it seems like it should probably be taken a little more seriously.

 

But anyhow, that's your freedom. Use it how you wish.

 

The point was clear in the analogy I made.. if one is willing to give up their individual choice and just give it to others to decide for them, why isn't it the same for relationships? There's many people that are in dire need of looking a bit inward to think about this logic flaw. I suspect this "team" mentality about the exercise of an individual act is precisely what helps perpetuate this football team and football fan mentality about parties. And I can't think of how it benefits anything but the party establishments themselves.

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, SRVT said:

I don't take a choice for President lightly. I pick who I think is the best candidate (not as you mind bogglingly declare identifying myself based on other people, pretty sure voting how everyone else is, is actually the very thing you attribute here), either reflected in my personal views about given subjects, or reflected in who I think best represents competence for the job. It's unfortunate if you think of it merely as ticking on a piece of paper but given all the whining, protesting, and flooding the internet with post-election tears so many leftists have done, many of whom didn't even bother "ticking on a piece of paper" or tapping a few times on a computer screen, it seems like it should probably be taken a little more seriously.

 

But anyhow, that's your freedom. Use it how you wish.

 

The point was clear in the analogy I made.. if one is willing to give up their individual choice and just give it to others to decide for them, why isn't it the same for relationships? There's many people that are in dire need of looking a bit inward to think about this logic flaw. I suspect this "team" mentality about the exercise of an individual act is precisely what helps perpetuate this football team and football fan mentality about parties. And I can't think of how it benefits anything but the party establishments themselves.

We started the discussion focused on Independents. Your first paragraph's point is about the two way election that was fought between Democrats/Republicans, like it always is. I agree that competition is important, and everyone who believes in one of the candidates, or the other, should be voting.

 

My point about "not bothering" or "wasting" was specifically only towards Independents. It has been quite a few campaign cycles since we had either a Democrat or Republican Candidate that really had 0 chance of winning. Every single time though, the Independents have as close to 0 chance as you can in real life. So it is very different. 

 

I do the same thing as you. I look at the candidates and decide how I want to vote. Then I ask myself, will it matter? If the person I like the most is an Independent, my answer to my "personal reflection" is "No it won't matter if I vote for them", so then I go back to the ACTUAL two Presidential candidates and look at them and ask "Who would I rather see in the office in 3 months?" and I vote for that person. They may not have been my first choice, but if my first choice had a 0% chance of winning I'm not going to go with them.

 

Your analogy doesn't work, on so many levels that it actually difficult to explain this because it should be rather obvious. I'll list a few:

1. Most people, when deciding to enter into a relationship, aren't standing there with multiple names that they are picking between (Or at least that never happened for me)

2. A relationship isn't decided based on a single decision that cannot be repeated. You don't pick one day and make one single choice and then are stuck with it for 4 years

3. A relationship primarily impacts the two people in that relationship, with some minor impact on a small group around them. The President is a "choice" we all are offered to provide input towards that impacts the entire country/world

 

I'll stop there. I actually think it isn't completley unreasonable to speak with people important in your life about a relationship. However, to compare a significant other with a choice for President is quite absurd.

 

At the end of the day we are arguing about a fairly minor point here. I fully suppor the growth of third parties. I wish our system was more like the UK where you elect a party member, and then the party leader is made Prime Minister. It allows for coalition governments to form. I am voting in a local election I will absolutely vote for an independent/third party candidate if I prefer their ideas. My entire focus for this has been specifically on the Presidential election. I don't think that is the time or the place to vote PURELY based on who you feel would be best. I think you need to be practical there because the stakes are much higher. Once (If) a third party grows and obtains a significant following, and has a candidate I like that I think has a real shot, then I will suppor them for President. I'm not going to back a horse with only 2 legs.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

 

Dont say this. It just triggers Trump supporters to go a tailspin about the sanctity and wisdom of the founding fathers to install the electoral college, diatribes about California leaving the union and hissyfits about widespread voter corruption whereever there are immigrants and non-white people.

 

4 hours ago, bcking said:

Voting for Hillary wasn't pointless because she had an actual chance to win. Heck she won more total votes.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by ccneat

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 hours ago, ccneat said:

 

Dont say this. It just triggers Trump supporters to go a tailspin about the sanctity and wisdom of the founding fathers to install the electoral college, diatribes about California leaving the union and hissyfits about widespread voter corruption whereever there are immigrants and non-white people.

 

Jesus. Thank you. You saved me a lot of typing 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Jesus. Thank you. You saved me a lot of typing 

I pretty much know the score. Heck if went on vacation I could probably do your posts.  Might be cheaper. to hire a bot.