Health care bill pulled from floor

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

6 minutes ago, OriZ said:

So what you are basically saying is that not only are premiums lower now than they were before the ACA, the main reason for that is because they are forced to cover "essential benefits" for everybody, including those who don't need these benefits. Makes sense to me. 

The purpose of government mandates in healthcare is to ensure everyone participates in regular,  preventative care that gives superior outcomes for lower total cost. It makes no economic sense for mothers with no health care nit get seen by a doctor for her health or the health. Of the child. People should not get prescriptions In emergency rooms. BP and diabetes needs regular treament or painful and costly Healthcare will drag down society. So is maternity care, addiction treament and psychiatric mandates bound to raise premiums ? Yes.

Do men "use" prescription birth control or prenatal care? No.    Is the Healthcare system, now 18% of gap, able to deliver. More for less under the AcA? Yes the data show that.

. 

[Boiler 45,472]

23 minutes ago, ccneat said:

The purpose of government mandates in healthcare is to ensure everyone participates in regular,  preventative care that gives superior outcomes for lower total cost. It makes no economic sense for mothers with no health care nit get seen by a doctor for her health or the health. Of the child. People should not get prescriptions In emergency rooms. BP and diabetes needs regular treament or painful and costly Healthcare will drag down society. So is maternity care, addiction treament and psychiatric mandates bound to raise premiums ? Yes.

Do men "use" prescription birth control or prenatal care? No.    Is the Healthcare system, now 18% of gap, able to deliver. More for less under the AcA? Yes the data show that.

. 

Hence the need for mega deductibles that many can not afford.

[TBoneTX 45,267]

Sixteen off-topic posts, plus an insulting post and quote thereof, have been removed.

Stay on the topic of this thread, or administrative action will be next.

[jg121783 3,915]

1 hour ago, Póg mo said:

Nobody said that it would. If you have a better solution, I suggest you contact your Republican member of Congress and let him/her know about it. God knows they don't have any better ideas themselves, and could do with the help they can get.

A better solution? How about we repeal Obamacare with or without a replacement. Things were far from perfect before Obamacare but at least insurance was a lot cheaper and people weren't forced to pay a tax penalty if they couldn't afford it. My insurance has more than doubled in cost since Obamacare passed and I am lucky compared to some people I know who saw it triple in cost.

 

Before Nixon passed a law turning healthcare from non profit to for profit everyone got the care they needed. Costs were way lower and if you couldn't afford it there were plenty of charities to help you out. Also doctors used to give a percentage of their services for free.

[Póg mo 1,749]

4 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

A better solution? How about we repeal Obamacare with or without a replacement. Things were far from perfect before Obamacare but at least insurance was a lot cheaper and people weren't forced to pay a tax penalty if they couldn't afford it. My insurance has more than doubled in cost since Obamacare passed and I am lucky compared to some people I know who saw it triple in cost.

 

Before Nixon passed a law turning healthcare from non profit to for profit everyone got the care they needed. Costs were way lower and if you couldn't afford it there were plenty of charities to help you out. Also doctors used to give a percentage of their services for free.

Sure,  great plan, an extra 48,000 people will likely die annually, but at least your premiums may perhaps be a little lower. 

 

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pnhp.org_excessdeaths_health-2Dinsurance-2Dand-2Dmortality-2Din-2DUS-2Dadults.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=RAhzPLrCAq19eJdrcQiUVEwFYoMRqGDAXQ_puw5tYjg&r=GzTF0gS-jX9DEUKWLuqpeffZfRRJ1oPJGeR6_2yf5n8&m=tr4dHPMymTGtx7M3mzVH854V5pA5IpzDPG9KLqPA938&s=uzXvlQFVEiD_N2ISSIztVQwUZnNbDzOCz8-iYaYgDrg&e=

[Póg mo 1,749]

10 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

A better solution? How about we repeal Obamacare with or without a replacement. Things were far from perfect before Obamacare but at least insurance was a lot cheaper and people weren't forced to pay a tax penalty if they couldn't afford it. My insurance has more than doubled in cost since Obamacare passed and I am lucky compared to some people I know who saw it triple in cost.

For you maybe, but perhaps not for everyone, or maybe your plan before the ACA didn't actually cover anything? Maybe if you had gotten sick, you might have found out the hard way, that your insurance company was not going to pay up, because you gave in incorrect answer ten years earlier, and your insurance provider only now decided to tell you? Or perhaps, you require life saving open heart surgery, that cost twice what your insurance company allows? I bet your family won't mind turning off your life support, because you have already reached the maximum allowable coverage. A ten thousand dollar deductable is certainly a lot of money, but a very short stay in intensive care unit, would not be long costing you a lot more. 

 

10 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

Before Nixon passed a law turning healthcare from non profit to for profit everyone got the care they needed. Costs were way lower and if you couldn't afford it there were plenty of charities to help you out. Also doctors used to give a percentage of their services for free.

So Republicans are responsible for wrecking the American health care system. Why am I not surprised?

[jg121783 3,915]

4 hours ago, Póg mo said:

For you maybe, but perhaps not for everyone, or maybe your plan before the ACA didn't actually cover anything? Maybe if you had gotten sick, you might have found out the hard way, that your insurance company was not going to pay up, because you gave in incorrect answer ten years earlier, and your insurance provider only now decided to tell you? Or perhaps, you require life saving open heart surgery, that cost twice what your insurance company allows? I bet your family won't mind turning off your life support, because you have already reached the maximum allowable coverage. A ten thousand dollar deductable is certainly a lot of money, but a very short stay in intensive care unit, would not be long costing you a lot more. 

 

So Republicans are responsible for wrecking the American health care system. Why am I not surprised?

Actually I have the same plan with the same level of coverage. Just twice the cost. By the way about 30% of the health care costs for the company I work for were ACA taxes last year which in turn were in part passed on to the employees. I consider myself lucky because my employer did everything they could to keep costs down. Most people I know aren't so lucky and had their costs triple. I don't know anyone personally who has benefited from Obamacare in any way. It is a hand out to the insurance companies and a tax revenue generator and nothing more.

 

How does it benefit anyone to charge them a tax penalty (that they probably can't afford) for not buying health insurance they can't afford? How does it benefit anyone to drive health care costs up by excessively taxing medical device manufacturers and other medical suppliers? Sure a few people (a large share of them being illegal aliens) may have got some free health care but for a vast majority of us Obamacare is a total screw job and we were better off without it. Even before Obamacare there were laws prohibiting withholding medical care because someone couldn't pay.

 

As far as Nixon ruining our health care system goes I am sure many Democrats were on board. It was a bipartisan effort.  Personally I would like to see a return to a non profit system. Unfortunately the genie is already out of the bottle and we might never be able to return to that type of system.

 

As far as the Ryancare bill that failed on Friday goes I am glad it failed as it is basically Obamacare lite. Quite frankly I am disappointed with Trump for not pushing Congress more aggressively to come up with something better. People like Rand Paul had proposals that were totally ignored. Wouldn't it be nice to have a health care bill written by a doctor instead of a lawyer? I think we should do a total repeal first as that alone will improve the situation then worry about replacing it later.

[Boiler 45,472]

Might help to have something not written by lobbyists. Too many noses in the trough.

[Teddy B 17,252]

So not only did Trump fail at reaching across the aisle to Dems, he couldn't even get his own party on board with his awesome plan? His plan doesn't have the votes so he pulls it like a spoiled child rather than trying to reach a compromise? This is a huge failure on behalf of Trump and the Republicans. Full control and still can't get it done! How many times are the Republicans going to repeat this silliness? Full control during the Bush admin, got nothing done. Full control during the Obama admin, got nothing done. Full control during the Trump admin, getting nothing done. Wash, rinse & repeat.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

14 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Might help to have something not written by lobbyists. Too many noses in the trough.

That. 100%

[smilesammich 10,727]

a la carte health insurance is nonsense. 

 

everybody say it with me now..SINGLE PAYER

 

http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-introduce-single-payer-health-care-bill-us-senate#stream/0

 

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

9 hours ago, jg121783 said:

A better solution? How about we repeal Obamacare with or without a replacement. Things were far from perfect before Obamacare but at least insurance was a lot cheaper and people weren't forced to pay a tax penalty if they couldn't afford it. My insurance has more than doubled in cost since Obamacare passed and I am lucky compared to some people I know who saw it triple in cost.

 

Before Nixon passed a law turning healthcare from non profit to for profit everyone got the care they needed. Costs were way lower and if you couldn't afford it there were plenty of charities to help you out. Also doctors used to give a percentage of their services for free.

Yup spot on. My dad was a country doctor. About 95% of hospital employees were care providers. I bet it's 50% or under now 

[Jacque67 7,328]

Of course this didn't work. Trump not interested- playing golf all weekend. And kushner skiing. As long as it takes josh Kushner to sort his app out nothing will happen. Trump making big bucks.

 

posted this before but hey escalators matter.

 

Kushner, along with Trump’s economic adviser Gary Cohn, strategist Steve Bannon and policy adviser Stephen Miller, “have emphasized the potential political costs to moving aggressively,” the Post’s Juliet Eilperin and Amy Goldstein write, while another group of White House advisers is eager to make big changes to the health care industry.

For Kushner, the cost of following through on his father-in-law’s repeated and unambiguous promises to repeal the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is more personal than for other aides to the president.

No, affordable care for a life-threatening illness afflicting a family member is not on the line, as it is for many Americans. Instead, it’s a family member’s business. 

Kushner’s brother, Josh, co-founded Oscar, an insurance company that is valued at $2.7 billion. That would be an obvious appearance of a conflict of interest, at the very least, and the potential for a conflict is even greater because Oscar was started for the express purpose of making money on the state exchanges for individual insurance that were created as part of the Affordable Care Act.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jared-kushner-obamacare-trump-oscar-app_us_58b5f4c8e4b060480e0c9e18

 

# skiing 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

a la carte health insurance is nonsense. 

 

everybody say it with me now..SINGLE PAYER

 

http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-introduce-single-payer-health-care-bill-us-senate#stream/0

 

 

It's time 

[yuna628 9,672]

Here's what I think people don't get about the idea of buying insurance ala-carte. It sounds great on the surface right? Why should I pay for stuff I don't use afterall?

 

If you're a man you don't want coverage that pays for female cancers, pre natal care, birth control etc (even though I would argue even if men don't actively plan on becoming 'fathers' some do anyway by 'opsies' and they should have some responsibility for the care of that kid and or preventing the birth of the kid if they want to do things with ladies).

If I'm a woman though do I feel like paying for STDs in men, testicular issues, male hormones, prostate cancer, ED treatments and such?

But if we keep going into this line of thought, there could be a whole host of things in insurance we'll never need, want, or use - for instance you may never have a problem with cancer, your heart, or various other ways to get sick and die, or substance abuse treatments (or conditions developed related to the long term abuse of the body (cancers/disease/liver failure/hepatitis) or psychologists. Where does one draw the line on deciding the things they can and cannot choose to pay to insure? Who gets to decide what's essential and what isn't for the rest of everyone else, and should they? We are all paying for largely ''what ifs'', coverage for things that ''could happen''.

 

Ala carte won't work, as nifty as it sounds because it currently operates in risk pools. No one individual is likely to need many of the services insurance covers pre and post Obamacare, but we are all likely to use it eventually. The healthy pay for the sick. Pre O'care premiums were lower for some - I can attest to that personally. But I had no virtual difference in the high deductible and it did offer less coverage overall. The insurance still pays out barely anything to any doctor I would see - nothing about that changes. And don't get me started on dental... which is a joke. So with O'care I have a skyrocketing premium for the two of us, and a still high deductible. These things alone are still just as prohibitive for a person seeking care as it was before. Doctors are still not getting paid fairly, the quality in some hospitals are going down even as they are making tons of money, insurance companies complain it's not their fault they have to raise the price but they are loving the monopoly they have. Its been pretty well studied, but ala carte doesn't drive down costs either. The company is going to make their money, one way or the other.

 

I once though that single payer would always be off the table in America. But I don't believe we can keep going as we have doing the same old tired things. Let me tell you though, there are problems with the NHS in the UK. Big ones. We'd have to figure out how to address those problems that could crop up if we tried something similar.