DEAR STRAIGHT PEOPLE,

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bottom line is this- someone's opinion about homosexuality is not relavent to the law. Can anyone give one legitimate reason why homosexuals should nto be treated equally under the law- full access to the same laws that straight people have (eg collecting social security of the surviving partner, immigration for partner benefits, )?

I don't know why people seem so eager to claim that homosexuals aren't treated equally under the law. The same laws apply to all people. The law doesn't say you can't get married... it just says you have to marry someone of the opposite sex. This same law affects straights AND gays.

Just because someone doesn't accept your lifestyle doesn't make them a bigot. If you endorsed slavery and I don't, that makes me a bigot? If you wanted to boof a camel and I thought it was gross and unacceptable, that makes me a bigot? I don't think so.

Wonderful idea... instead of trying to get everyone to accept YOUR lifestyle, why don't you try to get the government to stop passing laws that are basically attempts at social engineering?

Because same sex couple are not treated equality uner the law simple because of the sexual orientation. That is discrimination. Same sex couple do not have the same recognition as straight couples. Why? discrimination.

Exactly. Its discriminatory whether people want to call it that or not. The author makes the point fairly clearly when he says:

What we can leave our surviving lovers is taxed far more punitively than what you leave your (legal) surviving spouses. Why do you do this? My lover will be unable to afford to live in the house we have made for each other over our lifetime together. This does not happen to you. Taxation without representation is what led to the Revolutionary War. Gay people have paid all the taxes you have. But you have equality, and we don't.

and

...Why is it socially acceptable to joke about "girlie men" or to discriminate against us legally with "constitutional" amendments banning gay marriage? Because we cannot marry, we can pass on only a fraction of our estates, we do not have equal parenting rights and we cannot live with a foreigner we love who does not have government permission to stay in this country. These are the equal protections that the Bill of Rights proclaims for all?

Fact is you are punished for being gay.

Edited April 7, 2007 by erekose

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Society isn't 'static' though.

I have no idea what your point was.

I added to my post - the law used to stipulate that women couldn't vote. Just because its legal/illegal doesn't necessarily make it right or fair. I want to live in a fair society that treats people equally and doesn't marginalise groups of people for petty, self-serving reasons.

Good god.. you dont want much now do you

Wonder where this utopia is, havent seen anyplace like that yet, not even here in 'merica, though it is closer than other places i've visited.

True - but if we're talking about 'simple fairness' - its clear that some groups are treated more fairly than others "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" and all that

[JohnK 0]

Because same sex couple are not treated equality uner the law simple because of the sexual orientation. That is discrimination. Same sex couple do not have the same recognition as straight couples. Why? discrimination.

I could say the same thing about George wanting to marry his dog Ralph, but I won't.

[mybackpages 0]

Because same sex couple are not treated equality uner the law simple because of the sexual orientation. That is discrimination. Same sex couple do not have the same recognition as straight couples. Why? discrimination.

I could say the same thing about George wanting to marry his dog Ralph, but I won't.

Oh God here we go. How many posts did we make it to before the beastiality is brought up?

BTW I doubt Raplh the dog could give his consent to participate in such a relationship. So not really the same thing duh

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Because same sex couple are not treated equality uner the law simple because of the sexual orientation. That is discrimination. Same sex couple do not have the same recognition as straight couples. Why? discrimination.

I could say the same thing about George wanting to marry his dog Ralph, but I won't.

And strangely I knew someone would make that connection

Whenever we talk about homosexuality, someone can't resist relating it to beastiality, pedophilia, incest or have a dozen "deviances" that aren't considered normal. Ultimately, its ironic - given the title of the thread.

Moreover, lets try to find several thousand people who want to marry a dog, or more appropriately - several thousand people who want to marry a "foreign dog" and can't get a K9-1 visa .

What are we supposed to take from the comparison (that non-heterosexual sex is disgusting)? Great... and that isn't prejudicial at all is it?

Edited April 7, 2007 by erekose

[Mirorgate 0]

Society isn't 'static' though.

I have no idea what your point was.

I added to my post - the law used to stipulate that women couldn't vote. Just because its legal/illegal doesn't necessarily make it right or fair. I want to live in a fair society that treats people equally and doesn't marginalise groups of people for petty, self-serving reasons.

Good god.. you dont want much now do you

Wonder where this utopia is, havent seen anyplace like that yet, not even here in 'merica, though it is closer than other places i've visited.

True - but if we're talking about 'simple fairness' - its clear that some groups are treated more fairly than others "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" and all that

In any society that has majority rule, there will always be a minority that feels it is outcast and downtrodden. how one works about bringing forth ones grievences in actuallity decides if you get it or not. Gary has it right.. seeing some of the past Gay Pride parades with some rather up front and "in your face" visuals, well lets just say we can see the results now. But my co-worker and cousin now, if they came up and asked i'd back them sure enough.

[mybackpages 0]

In any society that has majority rule, there will always be a minority that feels it is outcast and downtrodden. how one works about bringing forth ones grievences in actuallity decides if you get it or not. Gary has it right.. seeing some of the past Gay Pride parades with some rather up front and "in your face" visuals, well lets just say we can see the results now. But my co-worker and cousin now, if they came up and asked i'd back them sure enough.

You may be right about majority rule, but the constituion always requires the rights of the minority are protected. The trick is to balance the two.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In any society that has majority rule, there will always be a minority that feels it is outcast and downtrodden. how one works about bringing forth ones grievences in actuallity decides if you get it or not. Gary has it right.. seeing some of the past Gay Pride parades with some rather up front and "in your face" visuals, well lets just say we can see the results now. But my co-worker and cousin now, if they came up and asked i'd back them sure enough.

Straight people attend those parades too of course, and I think there is a broad movement towards granting gay people legal equality (who is holding that process up I wonder?). The fact that we are even talking about it would seem to suggest that the status quo is being challenged.

Edited April 7, 2007 by erekose

[eric&gen 0]

I still will never understand till this day why being gay is so popular. Like men dressing in womens clothing is really just wrong if they are going to dress they should at least fix there hair like a woman and put on some make up to hide there manly look better lol.

Edited April 7, 2007 by eric&gen

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I still will never understand till this day why begging gay is so popular. Like men dressing in womens clothing is really just wrong if they are going to dress they should at least fix there hair like a woman and put on some make up to hide there manly look better lol.

Did you see that hairdresser guy (complete with lipstick and feather boa) that they kept wheeling after Anna-Nicole Smith's death?

[Niels Bohr 72]

Moreover, lets try to find several thousand people who want to marry a dog, or more appropriately - several thousand people who want to marry a "foreign dog" and can't get a K9-1 visa .

Good one.

[JohnK 0]

Moreover, lets try to find several thousand people who want to marry a dog, or more appropriately - several thousand people who want to marry a "foreign dog" and can't get a K9-1 visa .

What are we supposed to take from the comparison (that non-heterosexual sex is disgusting)? Great... and that isn't prejudicial at all is it?

Given a population of 300 some-od million, I bet we could find several thousand people if they could be convinced to come out of the dog house.

And I bet you could also find several thousand people who thought it was ok for men to have sex with little boys. In fact I know you can. It's called NAMBLA. Do you think that ought to be legal as well?

[eric&gen 0]

I still will never understand till this day why begging gay is so popular. Like men dressing in womens clothing is really just wrong if they are going to dress they should at least fix there hair like a woman and put on some make up to hide there manly look better lol.

Did you see that hairdresser guy (complete with lipstick and feather boa) that they kept wheeling after Anna-Nicole Smith's death?

No i dont remember but i sure seen quite a few cross dressers in the Phils during my stay and it reallys shows lol makes me look twice lol.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Moreover, lets try to find several thousand people who want to marry a dog, or more appropriately - several thousand people who want to marry a "foreign dog" and can't get a K9-1 visa .

What are we supposed to take from the comparison (that non-heterosexual sex is disgusting)? Great... and that isn't prejudicial at all is it?

Given a population of 300 some-od million, I bet we could find several thousand people if they could be convinced to come out of the dog house.

And I bet you could also find several thousand people who thought it was ok for men to have sex with little boys. In fact I know you can. It's called NAMBLA. Do you think that ought to be legal as well?

I think you missed the whole point about mutual consent... A dog can't give consent, neither can a child. Those are generally referred to as crimes (involving exploitation of someone that you are exercising power or control over). What am I to assume here - that you think homosexuality is somehow as criminally deviant as someone who gets their kicks by raping children and animals? As I said, it seems the prejudice here is fairly obvious...

Again it seems to come down to the idea that non-heterosexual sex is disgusting. It may not be to your or my tastes, but while it is not a crime and is confined to consenting adults - what's your point?

[Mirorgate 0]

In any society that has majority rule, there will always be a minority that feels it is outcast and downtrodden. how one works about bringing forth ones grievences in actuallity decides if you get it or not. Gary has it right.. seeing some of the past Gay Pride parades with some rather up front and "in your face" visuals, well lets just say we can see the results now. But my co-worker and cousin now, if they came up and asked i'd back them sure enough.

You may be right about majority rule, but the constituion always requires the rights of the minority are protected. The trick is to balance the two.

And the basics rights are bring protected under the consitution. Not everyone marries, and medical privledges, property inheritance, shared insurance coverages weren't actually much known then to the average person when the consitution was written. Its a growing and changing document, when the time is right and there is a balance, it will happen without having to force either side.

In any society that has majority rule, there will always be a minority that feels it is outcast and downtrodden. how one works about bringing forth ones grievences in actuallity decides if you get it or not. Gary has it right.. seeing some of the past Gay Pride parades with some rather up front and "in your face" visuals, well lets just say we can see the results now. But my co-worker and cousin now, if they came up and asked i'd back them sure enough.

Straight people attend those parades too of course, and I think there is a broad movement towards granting gay people legal equality (who is holding that process up I wonder?). The fact that we are even talking about it would seem to suggest that the status quo is being challenged.

Yes, some do of course attend. I would not.. dont really have an interest in the visuals. Again, it is all in the asking.