Health Care in the U.S. [split topic]

[FloridaMinsk 88]

3 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

For one, I couldn't afford to.  Her healthcare is free at the moment so that's not an issue.

 

A family friend needed reconstruct facial surgery after an accident.  It was covered by insurance here but she chose to go to South Korea instead.

No I understand perfectly and it's insulting comparing a car to a human life.

 

When you say healthcare is a right then you are basically enslaving doctors.   Things that are rights mean they must be offered to people.   That would require doctors to be unable to decline services which would be enslavement.   

 

Don't doctors have the right to charge what they feel is appropriate for their services?   Since you know, it's their life....

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Just now, FloridaMinsk said:

 

When you say healthcare is a right then you are basically enslaving doctors.   Things that are rights mean they must be offered to people.   That would require doctors to be unable to decline services which would be enslavement.   

 

Don't doctors have the right to charge what they feel is appropriate for their services?   Since you know, it's their life....

If a life is at stake and one cannot afford it then a doctor should either find a way to make service available or help find one that is within the price range.  If one is in need of life threatening surgery a doctor shouldn't be able to say "nope sorry...next" in an emergency case.

[FloridaMinsk 88]

5 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

Free clinics are funded by tax dollars and who pays for that?  We all do.  So therefor that goes against your principles of why should we pay for care.

 

and no, there's plenty who are poor long term having absolutely nothing to do with money management 

 

so there is no need to be concerned about healthcare for the "poor".  They already have access to some healthcare.    

 

I don't mind throwing a few tax dollars at free clinics for their care.   I am not a monster.   

 

 

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Just now, FloridaMinsk said:

 

so there is no need to be concerned about healthcare for the "poor".  They already have access to some healthcare.    

 

I don't mind throwing a few tax dollars at free clinics for their care.   I am not a monster.   

 

 

But that does seem to go against your initial principle.  The trouble with free clinics is that they're limited in services and what they provide.  If one needs surgery, mental health care or medicine, etc without tax dollars that's not possible for them

[FloridaMinsk 88]

3 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

If a life is at stake and one cannot afford it then a doctor should either find a way to make service available or help find one that is within the price range.  If one is in need of life threatening surgery a doctor shouldn't be able to say "nope sorry...next" in an emergency case.

 

Ok.  So that would mean you are in favor of enslaving doctors.  Forcing them to do something against their will.   

 

Should we apply the same rules for attorneys as well?  If your life is on the line then the top attorneys must take your case even if they can't pay?   

[FloridaMinsk 88]

1 minute ago, Transborderwife said:

But that does seem to go against your initial principle.  The trouble with free clinics is that they're limited in services and what they provide.  If one needs surgery, mental health care or medicine, etc without tax dollars that's not possible for them

 

Then they don't get those services and find another way they can afford.   

 

Mental health is a concern in this country. Shutting down mental health hospitals had hurt society overall.    We have a lot of people who shouldn't be out there with the public.   

[Transborderwife 4,666]

3 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

Ok.  So that would mean you are in favor of enslaving doctors.  Forcing them to do something against their will.   

 

Should we apply the same rules for attorneys as well?  If your life is on the line then the top attorneys must take your case even if they can't pay?   

How do we measure what a doctor is worth?  I have a few doctor friends in Canada and they're not complaining about their pay 

[Transborderwife 4,666]

1 minute ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

Then they don't get those services and find another way they can afford.   

 

Mental health is a concern in this country. Shutting down mental health hospitals had hurt society overall.    We have a lot of people who shouldn't be out there with the public.   

Agreed and tax dollars are needed for mental Heath.  Most people cannot afford mental health care.  It's a huge reason in this and other countries that poor stay poor.

 

So one should not be able to get life saving surgery if they can't afford it?

[FloridaMinsk 88]

1 hour ago, Transborderwife said:

How do we measure what a doctor is worth?  I have a few doctor friends in Canada and they're not complaining about their pay 

 

A doctors worth would be between them and their patients.   They can charge as much as they would like and patients can choose to pay that or get a new doctor.  

[FloridaMinsk 88]

1 hour ago, Transborderwife said:

Agreed and tax dollars are needed for mental Heath.  Most people cannot afford mental health care.  It's a huge reason in this and other countries that poor stay poor.

 

So one should not be able to get life saving surgery if they can't afford it?

 

As much as I loathe state ran anythng I would reinstitute sanitariums.   

 

It would clean up a lot of problems we have in society.  

 

As for life saving surgery....  many doctors do surgery for nothing.   Many private groups give charity.   We are the most giving nation in the world.  

 

[Transborderwife 4,666]

17 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

A doctors worth would be between them and their patients.   They can charge as much as they would like and patients can choose to pay that or get a new doctor.  

That's ludicrous.  Even lawyers base their worth on a sort of scale or average.  Better lawyers and charge more because they've won more or perhaps had a better education or track record.

[Transborderwife 4,666]

16 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

As much as I loathe state ran anythng I would reinstitute sanitariums.   

 

It would clean up a lot of problems we have in society.  

 

As for life saving surgery....  many doctors do surgery for nothing.   Many private groups give charity.   We are the most giving nation in the world.  

 

I agree with sanitariums to an extent yes.  At a period in my life in Canada I worked with women in a shelter.  Because mental health hospitals had been closed, there were many who were off meds or undiagnosed and it got scary at times.

 

however I do believe that not just medication could help in some cases.  Other mental illnesses have a variety of better treatments.  Unfortunately many of the untreated cannot cope with daily life.

[FloridaMinsk 88]

14 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

That's ludicrous.  Even lawyers base their worth on a sort of scale or average.  Better lawyers and charge more because they've won more or perhaps had a better education or track record.

That's the same metric used by doctors.   

 

The only problem is that you think only one of them should be enslaved to work without getting their rate of pay they have earned.   

[FloridaMinsk 88]

11 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

I agree with sanitariums to an extent yes.  At a period in my life in Canada I worked with women in a shelter.  Because mental health hospitals had been closed, there were many who were off meds or undiagnosed and it got scary at times.

 

however I do believe that not just medication could help in some cases.  Other mental illnesses have a variety of better treatments.  Unfortunately many of the untreated cannot cope with daily life.

 

Society suffers because we have mentally unstable people who are irrational out around us.  These are the same people hurting society.  

[Transborderwife 4,666]

1 minute ago, FloridaMinsk said:

That's the same metric used by doctors.   

 

The only problem is that you think only one of them should be enslaved to work without getting their rate of pay they have earned.   

Actually I favor a system where those who are privileged take time to give back to those in need who cannot afford it or those who feel compelled to care for others.  Not every doctor is greedy just as some lawyers choose to be PD's