Health Care in the U.S. [split topic]

[FloridaMinsk 88]

10 hours ago, yuna628 said:

This is absolutely false. My sister works for some of the best doctors in their particular field on the east coast. They got into the profession to help save the lives of others, advancing the best practices in the field, and even go so far as helping anyone they can when fighting an insurance company when they try to override the patient's best interests. They have done charity work in other countries for free, and if a world leader needs treatment for something in their line of medicine - it is them they will seek out. They don't charge prices to be able to pay off student loan debt. They charge what they charge because that is the cost, and they too have overhead which requires them to pay their employees salaries. Sometimes the doctor makes absolutely nothing to be able to just make his employee's payroll for the month. The insurance companies pay them pittance, and Medicare pays them even less. The average person coming into an office with insurance will never know the full cost of what the doctor has charged and how little they actually will receive from that insurance company they are shelling out thousands of dollars to each year. If a doctor is charging high prices to merely pay off his debts, chances are it's a doctor that doesn't accept insurance and wants pay out of pocket.

 

I didn't say they were not doing their professions to help people.    You should read back b/c it was in response to a poster thinking it was ok to force doctors to do procedures for free.  

 

Which would be enslavement.  

[NikLR 13,227]

Also btw, i do believe in a tiered system, where everyone enjoys basic health care, at the same care level, BUT you can pay extra for things like private rooms, etc..  I do not believe that's a single payer but it is majority of it aye?

[NikLR 13,227]

9 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

Agreed.  I was only mentioning  it as the way with the least political backlash.   

 

It's a horrible idea. 

BTW I meant... NOT a horrible idea.... I will for future reference, stop replying to this post on my phone when I'm annoyed so that words are not missed.  I apologize for the inconvenience. I think that the word would have been obviously missed when you read the rest of the post.  But I appreciate you pointing out that it was.

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by NikLR

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

6 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Also btw, i do believe in a tiered system, where everyone enjoys basic health care, at the same care level, BUT you can pay extra for things like private rooms, etc..  I do not believe that's a single payer but it is majority of it aye?

 

This sounds like the Danish system.  If there is too long of a wait in the public hospital for a procedure, you get bumped to private and the state pays for it.    I thought their private healthcare was great, the public was just fine for being public, but it is a small scale.

[FloridaMinsk 88]

10 hours ago, NikLR said:

BTW I meant... NOT a horrible idea.... I will for future reference, stop replying to this post on my phone when I'm annoyed so that words are not missed.  I apologize for the inconvenience. I think that the word would have been obviously missed when you read the rest of the post.  But I appreciate you pointing out that it was.

 

 

Actually I thought you were just advocating that we keep our tax money and decide how we want to spend our money.    Seemed like you were promoting health savings accounts to be fair.   

[FloridaMinsk 88]

10 hours ago, NikLR said:

Also btw, i do believe in a tiered system, where everyone enjoys basic health care, at the same care level, BUT you can pay extra for things like private rooms, etc..  I do not believe that's a single payer but it is majority of it aye?

 

Hmmm it sorta is single payer with the ability to buy your way out.    The problem is that you can't exempt yourself from the taxes collected to support such a program.   

 

Just look at the mess the NHS has become in the U.K.  Could you imagine the swarms of illegals we would have stampeding across the southern border.   It would be a third world tornado of poor who we probably would never get to leave.  

 

This is chief reason the brits voted to Brexit.   

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

20 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

Hmmm it sorta is single payer with the ability to buy your way out.    The problem is that you can't exempt yourself from the taxes collected to support such a program.   

 

Just look at the mess the NHS has become in the U.K.  Could you imagine the swarms of illegals we would have stampeding across the southern border.   It would be a third world tornado of poor who we probably would never get to leave.  

 

This is chief reason the brits voted to Brexit.   

Other countries manage their socialized healthcare systems by controlling immigration.  The UK has never had the balls to do this and the EU was certainly not helping.   They also allow way too many health tourists, who then use their system for free.  We've got a similar problem in America as well, especially when it comes to births.  I'm thinking of a recent news story, one of many examples, in which a Nigerian woman flew to the US to give birth and was turned away for not having the medical payment funds, but she goes into labor on the flight home and the UK ends up treating her and her multiple newborns for free at great cost to them.

 

It is something seen often on this forum as well - foreigner is pregnant and wants to give birth in the US and plans on relying on medicaid or skipping on the bill.  

[FloridaMinsk 88]

3 minutes ago, N-o-l-a said:

Other countries manage their socialized healthcare systems by controlling immigration.  The UK has never had the balls to do this and the EU was certainly not helping.   They also allow way too many health tourists, who then use their system for free.  We've got a similar problem in America as well, especially when it comes to births.  I'm thinking of a recent news story, one of many examples, in which a Nigerian woman flew to the US to give birth and was turned away for not having the medical payment funds, but she goes into labor on the flight home and the UK ends up treating her and her multiple newborns for free at great cost to them.

 

It is something seen often on this forum as well - foreigner is pregnant and wants to give birth in the US and plans on relying on medicaid or skipping on the bill.  

 

The whole nonsense of being a citizen for just by being born here needs to stop as well.    They need to change it and tie it to the parents citizenship.   

 

That would stop a lot of the birthing tourism from china and other places.    

 

And really all non US citizens should be turned away at the hospitals unless they can pay up front.   There is no reason for them to not have medical insurance when they travel.    I was listening to LBC the other day and they were discussing this exact scenario.   They could easily block anyone from entering unless they have a suitable medical insurance plan.   

[NikLR 13,227]

I don't see swarms of illegals into Canada and it's the system we have.  You have to prove residency to get health care.  Even I do not receive health care automatically in Canada because I'm not a resident in Canada, I'm an LPR of the USA.  They won't deny health care, but if you aren't a resident and don't have travel insurance, you'll get a bill.  Canadians accept there will be people that won't pay that bill, but we won't deny health services to those people.  Someone is dying and maybe can't even speak, but yet you turn them away at the door?  Really?  The very idea of that to me is appalling!   In the USA you don't even have to prove citizenship to vote but you want them to prove citizenship to get health care? 

 

I advocate deciding WHERE your tax dollars go, but I think some of them should go to health care just like some should go to schooling, some goes towards infrastructure, some towards military, and eventually some go towards paying representatives because they're doing a job.  Do you as an individual get to choose those places? Indirectly by choosing your representatives.

 

I do not believe that you, as a person, care to help pay for someone's health.  You've stated over and over that it is everyone for themselves.  That people should "budget better" so they can afford treatment.  That's your personal choice and the USA allows you to make that choice.  You're okay with big pharma and health care being a business vs being about people being healthy and living lives where they're not scared to see a doctor.  You do have your right to your opinion, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.  

 

I disagree with that train of thought.  I believe the health of the very world, depends on the people in it.  We make the biggest impact on this planet.  There is zero reason why we can't, at the very least, help those around us.  Yes, I give money to the homeless and give food to food banks. It's my responsibility as someone who has a roof over their head and food in their belly with the ability to help others, to help those who don't have those things.  Sometimes this is a choice they've made and no I'm not responsible for that choice.  But that doesn't mean I can't help and maybe that little bit of help, they can see a light and help themselves.  

 

But compassion and empathy is lacking by many in the world.  You've certainly proven that.   I wish you to live long.   

[FloridaMinsk 88]

14 minutes ago, NikLR said:

I don't see swarms of illegals into Canada and it's the system we have.  You have to prove residency to get health care.  Even I do not receive health care automatically in Canada because I'm not a resident in Canada, I'm an LPR of the USA.  They won't deny health care, but if you aren't a resident and don't have travel insurance, you'll get a bill.  Canadians accept there will be people that won't pay that bill, but we won't deny health services to those people.  Someone is dying and maybe can't even speak, but yet you turn them away at the door?  Really?  The very idea of that to me is appalling!   In the USA you don't even have to prove citizenship to vote but you want them to prove citizenship to get health care? 

 

I advocate deciding WHERE your tax dollars go, but I think some of them should go to health care just like some should go to schooling, some goes towards infrastructure, some towards military, and eventually some go towards paying representatives because they're doing a job.  Do you as an individual get to choose those places? Indirectly by choosing your representatives.

 

I do not believe that you, as a person, care to help pay for someone's health.  You've stated over and over that it is everyone for themselves.  That people should "budget better" so they can afford treatment.  That's your personal choice and the USA allows you to make that choice.  You're okay with big pharma and health care being a business vs being about people being healthy and living lives where they're not scared to see a doctor.  You do have your right to your opinion, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.  

 

I disagree with that train of thought.  I believe the health of the very world, depends on the people in it.  We make the biggest impact on this planet.  There is zero reason why we can't, at the very least, help those around us.  Yes, I give money to the homeless and give food to food banks. It's my responsibility as someone who has a roof over their head and food in their belly with the ability to help others, to help those who don't have those things.  Sometimes this is a choice they've made and no I'm not responsible for that choice.  But that doesn't mean I can't help and maybe that little bit of help, they can see a light and help themselves.  

 

But compassion and empathy is lacking by many in the world.  You've certainly proven that.   I wish you to live long.   

 

Fair enough.   

 

For the record,  I am also for showing ID's and proof of citizenship for voting as well .  

 

I am also in favor of charity but it should come from private sources rather than the government.   We happily donate our time and money to causes that are important to us.  

 

Reasonable people can disagree and still be civil.   I would like to thank you for the discussion and that even though we can have clear differences we can stay respectable to one another.    

[Transborderwife 4,666]

31 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

The whole nonsense of being a citizen for just by being born here needs to stop as well.    They need to change it and tie it to the parents citizenship.   

 

That would stop a lot of the birthing tourism from china and other places.    

 

And really all non US citizens should be turned away at the hospitals unless they can pay up front.   There is no reason for them to not have medical insurance when they travel.    I was listening to LBC the other day and they were discussing this exact scenario.   They could easily block anyone from entering unless they have a suitable medical insurance plan.   

Still advocating that people should die because they can't afford it I see

[Transborderwife 4,666]

5 minutes ago, FloridaMinsk said:

 

Fair enough.   

 

For the record,  I am also for showing ID's and proof of citizenship for voting as well .  

 

I am also in favor of charity but it should come from private sources rather than the government.   We happily donate our time and money to causes that are important to us.  

 

Reasonable people can disagree and still be civil.   I would like to thank you for the discussion and that even though we can have clear differences we can stay respectable to one another.    

The hospital I gave birth in had private charity funds not from the government.  It happens quite often here 

[FloridaMinsk 88]

25 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

Still advocating that people should die because they can't afford it I see

 

Nope.   Just advocating that the government shouldn't be the charity.   

[FloridaMinsk 88]

25 minutes ago, Transborderwife said:

The hospital I gave birth in had private charity funds not from the government.  It happens quite often here 

 

 

This is exactly how it should go.   

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Just now, FloridaMinsk said:

 

Nope.   Just advocating that the government shouldn't be the charity.   

Saying that that non citizens should be turned away if they can't pay upfront.  Nobody plans an emergency.  Not everyone can afford medical insurance right now and/or travel insurance.  Sometimes travel insurance doesn't cover every emergency.