Multinational Question. Born in Brazil, naturalized American, marrying a German & moving to Germany. Can I keep my Brazilian & American Citizenships and become a naturalized German?

[Chewbacca1 0]

Multinational Question. I'm a woman in case this matters.

 

Born in Brazil

Brazil is a country that does not allow their citizens to renounce their citizenship.

 

Naturalized American

As an adult 

 

Will be marrying a German born citizen, and will be moving to Germany. 

 

Can I become a naturalized German citizen and keep both my Brazilian and American citizenships?

 

[Mollie09 1,543]

Probably not, mostly because Germany frowns upon dual citizenship more than other countries.

 

Also, I have no idea where you heard Brazilians can't renounce their citizenships: http://chicago.itamaraty.gov.br/en-us/brazilian_nationality.xml

Edited January 30, 2017 by F1H1I130

[HK12 273]

I think a German immigration forum would be of more help in this case... As far as I know, you will have to renounce your U.S. citizenship if you apply for German citizenship. There are a few exceptions, such as for those who cannot to give up their nationality easily (that means you might be able to keep your Brazilian citizenship) or citizens of the EU/Switzerland. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by HK12

[HK12 273]

17 hours ago, F1H1I130 said:

Also, I have no idea where you heard Brazilians can't renounce their citizenships: http://chicago.itamaraty.gov.br/en-us/brazilian_nationality.xml

 

You're right, just read up on that too. Brazilian citizenship can be renounced. So OP would probably have to give up both U.S. and Brazilian citizenship in order to get German citizenship.

[Lanzoni 38]

I see that it has been a while that the last discussion took place so I am willing to resume it by saying that a lot happened since then and I wanted to inform you that the Brazilian government is stripping out the Brazilian citizenship from Brazilians that became U.S. citizens. The cases I studied, the Brazilian attorney general did that unilaterally and without the consent of the Brazilian citizen. I don't believe the Brazilian government will do that with everyone but if you end up with any administrative process with the minister of justice, say to change your name for the same one you changed upon U.S. naturalization, then that would be a red flag and it would give them all documentation they need to do that. 

[Mollie09 1,543]

2 hours ago, Lanzoni said:

I see that it has been a while that the last discussion took place so I am willing to resume it by saying that a lot happened since then and I wanted to inform you that the Brazilian government is stripping out the Brazilian citizenship from Brazilians that became U.S. citizens. The cases I studied, the Brazilian attorney general did that unilaterally and without the consent of the Brazilian citizen. I don't believe the Brazilian government will do that with everyone but if you end up with any administrative process with the minister of justice, say to change your name for the same one you changed upon U.S. naturalization, then that would be a red flag and it would give them all documentation they need to do that. 

Source?

[Lanzoni 38]

16 minutes ago, Mollie09 said:

Source?

The main source is the article below:http://www.conjur.com.br/2017-fev-28/quem-adquire-nacionalidade-norte-americana-renuncia-brasileira

 

I was able to independently verify this article by studying the two cases mentioned in it at length on my own. For those who want to read about the issue in English, in the link below you will find a high level and somewhat accurate description of it under "Dual nationality and loss of Brazilian nationality":

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_nationality_law

[Mollie09 1,543]

51 minutes ago, Lanzoni said:

The main source is the article below:http://www.conjur.com.br/2017-fev-28/quem-adquire-nacionalidade-norte-americana-renuncia-brasileira

 

I was able to independently verify this article by studying the two cases mentioned in it at length on my own. For those who want to read about the issue in English, in the link below you will find a high level and somewhat accurate description of it under "Dual nationality and loss of Brazilian nationality":

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_nationality_law

 

That's a case where someone's citizenship was revoked so she could be extradited on murder charges. Not really a typical case.

Regardless, Brazilian citizens who forfeit their citizenship can reaquire it.

[Lanzoni 38]

1 hour ago, Mollie09 said:

 

That's a case where someone's citizenship was revoked so she could be extradited on murder charges. Not really a typical case.

Regardless, Brazilian citizens who forfeit their citizenship can reaquire it.

Like I said, there are two recent cases of involuntary loss of Brazilian citizenship. The one you are mentioning is the infamous Hoerig Case. The article I sent seemed to suggest that the decision in this case could not necessarily be extrapolated. However, the article also mentions the case of an Oracle executive from Colorado that seemed to be a pretty law abiding citizen to me and that lost the Brazilian citizenship upon sending a request to the Brazilian attorney general for changing the spelling of her name in Brazil (most likely because she changed her name upon naturalization in the U.S.). If you read Portuguese, click on the first link below, scroll all the way to pages 18-23 ("MANDADO DE SEGURANÇA N. 20.200"). This is a court injunction in which the beneficiary was granted relieve. Upon that court decision, the Brazilian minister of justice was forced to revoke the decree of Brazilian nationality loss but appealed to the Brazilian supreme court. The case is now in the hands of a justice that is taking care of a lot of corruption cases especially in light of the upcoming Brazilian elections next year (Edson Fachin) and therefore we are not going to see any final interpretation of the constitutional requirements invoked by the Brazilian minister of justice and that can be used as jurisprudence going forward anytime soon:

 

https://ww2.stj.jus.br/docs_internet/revista/eletronica/stj-revista-eletronica-2016_243_1_capPrimeiraSecao.pdf   (Court injunction)

https://www.jusbrasil.com.br/diarios/128609320/dou-secao-1-19-10-2016-pg-28 (Decree of cancellation of loss of Brazilian nationality)

http://www.stf.jus.br/portal/processo/verProcessoAndamento.asp?numero=1020261&classe=RE&origem=AP&recurso=0&tipoJulgamento=M (Filing of appeal made by the Brazilian justice minister to the Brazilian supreme court).

 

My take on this is, the Brazilian government is able to administratively revoke the Brazilian citizenship of anybody that naturalized U.S. citizen, which is a pretty simple process but it can still be legally challenged, if you have the money to fight the battle on the Brazilian supreme court. If you don’t or if you lose, you will have to live in Brazil for at least two years to regain the citizenship and you will have to have attorneys working on that for you. However, in my opinion, Brazil will never have the resources or the willingness to revoke the Brazilian citizenship of the millions of Brazilians that already naturalized U.S. citizens nor the thousands that do so every year. But if they have the opportunity to do so without moving a lot of resources, for whatever reason or no reason, they may.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Lanzoni

[Mollie09 1,543]

27 minutes ago, Lanzoni said:

Like I said, there are two recent cases of involuntary loss of Brazilian citizenship. The one you are mentioning is the infamous Hoerig Case. The article I sent seemed to suggest that the decision in this case could not necessarily be extrapolated. However, the article also mentions the case of an Oracle executive from Colorado that seemed to be a pretty law abiding citizen to me and that lost the Brazilian citizenship upon sending a request to the Brazilian attorney general for changing the spelling of her name in Brazil (most likely because she changed her name upon naturalization in the U.S.). If you read Portuguese, click on the first link below, scroll all the way to pages 18-23 ("MANDADO DE SEGURANÇA N. 20.200"). This is a court injunction in which the beneficiary was granted relieve. Upon that court decision, the Brazilian minister of justice was forced to revoke the decree of Brazilian nationality loss but appealed to the Brazilian supreme court. The case is now in the hands of a justice that is taking care of a lot of corruption cases especially in light of the upcoming Brazilian elections next year (Edson Fachin) and therefore we are not going to see any final interpretation of the constitutional requirements invoked by the Brazilian minister of justice and that can be used as jurisprudence going forward anytime soon:

 

https://ww2.stj.jus.br/docs_internet/revista/eletronica/stj-revista-eletronica-2016_243_1_capPrimeiraSecao.pdf   (Court injunction)

https://www.jusbrasil.com.br/diarios/128609320/dou-secao-1-19-10-2016-pg-28 (Decree of cancellation of loss of Brazilian nationality)

http://www.stf.jus.br/portal/processo/verProcessoAndamento.asp?numero=1020261&classe=RE&origem=AP&recurso=0&tipoJulgamento=M (Filing of appeal made by the Brazilian justice minister to the Brazilian supreme court).

 

My take on this is, the Brazilian government is able to administratively revoke the Brazilian citizenship of anybody that naturalized U.S. citizen, which is a pretty simple process but it can still be legally challenged, if you have the money to fight the battle on the Brazilian supreme court. If you don’t or if you lose, you will have to live in Brazil for at least two years to regain the citizenship and you will have to have attorneys working on that for you. However, in my opinion, Brazil will never have the resources or the willingness to revoke the Brazilian citizenship of the millions of Brazilians that already naturalized U.S. citizens nor the thousands that do so every year. But if they have the opportunity to do so without moving a lot of resources, for whatever reason or no reason, they may.

 

Not if you're Brazilian by birth and reside abroad, you just need a birth certificate.

[Lanzoni 38]

30 minutes ago, Mollie09 said:

 

Not if you're Brazilian by birth and reside abroad, you just need a birth certificate.

Well, there are two different legal opinions on that. You seem to be talking about the first one. According to this , the thesis advocated by the current Minister of Justice Alexandre de Morais, is that Brazilians that lost the Brazilian citizenship must go through the whole naturalization process as any other foreigner, as if they had been born outside Brazil. I am not familiar with all the naturalization process but I heard that there are residency requirements that may vary on a case by case basis but they are not less than 2 years.

[Lanzoni 38]

On 7/31/2017 at 11:16 AM, Mollie09 said:

 

Not if you're Brazilian by birth and reside abroad, you just need a birth certificate.

I guess now it's official :

"O brasileiro que adotar voluntariamente outra nacionalidade não perderá automaticamente a nacionalidade brasileira, mas poderá ser instaurado procedimento no âmbito do Ministério da Justiça, o qual ensejará a perda da nacionalidade brasileira se não restar comprovado ter ocorrido umas das hipóteses de exceção acima indicadas."

Source: http://atlanta.itamaraty.gov.br/pt-br/informacoes_sobre_perda_da_nacionalidade_brasileira.xml

[little immigrant 801]

Hi there

 

In order for you to get the German citizenship, you need to reside in Germany for 8 years (7 or 6 if certain conditions apply). You would need to have unlimited residency first (unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht) so you probably won't lose any of your other citizenships for a while. Once you're ready to get German citizenship, you will lose your other citizenships.

 

I couldn't find an English version of this page but maybe your German husband can help you translate, or Google

 

http://www.bundesauslaenderbeauftragte.de/einbuergerung.html

[josue818 20]

On 1/30/2017 at 12:02 PM, Chewbacca1 said:

Multinational Question. I'm a woman in case this matters.

 

Born in Brazil

Brazil is a country that does not allow their citizens to renounce their citizenship.

 

Naturalized American

As an adult 

 

Will be marrying a German born citizen, and will be moving to Germany. 

 

Can I become a naturalized German citizen and keep both my Brazilian and American citizenships?

 

 

You do not necessarily lose U.S. citizenship by acquiring another citizenship. You may lose it if you intend to give up your US citizenship when you acquire another one, BUT if you do not intend to give up your US citizenship at the time you acquire another then you do not lose it. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by josue818

[jkstark 97]

I don't know specifically about German law in this case, but I do have a friend who is a US Citizen by birth, and has lived in Germany for many years, married to a German, and has two children.  She recently became a German citizen, and as far as I know, still holds her US Citizenship as well.