Trump's published Immigration policies MEGATHREAD

[Lazybones18 261]

44 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

And what was the racial composition of the passengers on the flights that had recently arrived?

this happened when i was at Dubai international airport... most big international airports like Dubai have a full immigration set-up now a days ... they have CPB officers making sure you dont board the US bound flight unless you are cleared and  have the right paperwork... and when you land in USA u just pick up your bags and go towards the exit door .. like you came from a local flight

 

anyways, i had a 3 hour layover in Dubai .... they put me into secondary inspection and booted me off the flight to LAX even though i had enough time to clear secondary inspection... after that they put me in a flight from Dubai-->Atlanta-->LAX .. took me extra 8 hours

 

as a US citizen i felt pretty violated  ... living in the USA for 15 years... pay taxes every year ... 0 criminal history ... educated and working professional ... clearly it was racial profiling because i am brown and born in Pakistan

 

oh and i also have pre-tsa + global entry .. that didnt help at all

 

 

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,287]

Ah.

[Marco&Bettina 502]

6 hours ago, lazybones18 said:

this happened when i was at Dubai international airport... most big international airports like Dubai have a full immigration set-up now a days ... they have CPB officers making sure you dont board the US bound flight unless you are cleared and  have the right paperwork... and when you land in USA u just pick up your bags and go towards the exit door .. like you came from a local flight

 

anyways, i had a 3 hour layover in Dubai .... they put me into secondary inspection and booted me off the flight to LAX even though i had enough time to clear secondary inspection... after that they put me in a flight from Dubai-->Atlanta-->LAX .. took me extra 8 hours

 

as a US citizen i felt pretty violated  ... living in the USA for 15 years... pay taxes every year ... 0 criminal history ... educated and working professional ... clearly it was racial profiling because i am brown and born in Pakistan

 

oh and i also have pre-tsa + global entry .. that didnt help at all

 

 

 

 

Well I'm certainly the last person that will sit here and try to tell someone that racial profiling doesn't happen. And it's unfortunate when it does. But that is something that I've learned to understand is an unfortunate part of society in America in the 21st century. This is the most diverse country in the world and with that comes the difficulty in fully integrating all races. It will take hundreds of years to occur and we are in the middle of it. It is what it is.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Marco&Bettina

[Leo7777 243]

9 hours ago, lazybones18 said:

this happened when i was at Dubai international airport... most big international airports like Dubai have a full immigration set-up now a days ... they have CPB officers making sure you dont board the US bound flight unless you are cleared and  have the right paperwork... and when you land in USA u just pick up your bags and go towards the exit door .. like you came from a local flight

 

anyways, i had a 3 hour layover in Dubai .... they put me into secondary inspection and booted me off the flight to LAX even though i had enough time to clear secondary inspection... after that they put me in a flight from Dubai-->Atlanta-->LAX .. took me extra 8 hours

 

as a US citizen i felt pretty violated  ... living in the USA for 15 years... pay taxes every year ... 0 criminal history ... educated and working professional ... clearly it was racial profiling because i am brown and born in Pakistan

 

oh and i also have pre-tsa + global entry .. that didnt help at all

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the anger in most cases is not directed to the appropriate place.

What has caused this tremendous change in airplane boarding?

What has caused the USA and other countries to make it difficult for people to enter their countries?

Did airlines and the USA just 'out of the blue' with no reason put these rules and procedures in place?

Why are darker skinned people and people from some countries being scrutinized?

Why the change now compared to say 50 years ago?

This could all be solved by a simpler procedure.

At airport checkin, there are two lines.

One line says:  For non-terrorist.  The other line says:  For terrorists.

That's what we would all like so that innocents are not held up.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

8 minutes ago, Leo7777 said:

Unfortunately, the anger in most cases is not directed to the appropriate place.

What has caused this tremendous change in airplane boarding?

What has caused the USA and other countries to make it difficult for people to enter their countries?

Did airlines and the USA just 'out of the blue' with no reason put these rules and procedures in place?

Why are darker skinned people and people from some countries being scrutinized?

Why the change now compared to say 50 years ago?

This could all be solved by a simpler procedure.

At airport checkin, there are two lines.

One line says:  For non-terrorist.  The other line says:  For terrorists.

That's what we would all like so that innocents are not held up.

 

Some of the people on this thread might be young enough that they did not experience how easy flying used to be when people didn't have to take off their shoes or take apart their bags just to get through security...

 

9/11 changed a lot of things in this country and while it is true that there are a number of domestic terror incidents committed by white people, by in large, international terrorism and our own foreign grown terrorism is and was perpetrated predominately by non-whites.   Yes, as pointed out earlier, there is a large spectrum as to what is considered white, but let's just be really clear that in an average year anywhere in the world, the majority of people committing terrorism are not Northern European white looking and that is because people who are that pale (like me who sometimes has trouble finding makeup light enough) are an incredibly small percentage of the world population.

 

So, yeah, our really small population group is not being overly targeted because by in large, we don't tend to have incentive to defraud the immigration system or commit foreign related terrorism.  Maybe it is privilege, maybe it is culture, but that is another conversation.

 

Change the world dynamics and these things could change.  If Sweden, for example, suddenly started having domestic terrorism with large scale bomb attacks becoming their new norm, then yes it is likely that Swedes would get pulled into secondary and extensively questioned.  Why is this so hard to grasp?  Guess what, on a recent flight from Scandinavia that we took that I'm pretty sure was 90%white, all the people who got pulled into secondary were .... you guessed it, white.   

[AH&ZK 4]

40 minutes ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

Some of the people on this thread might be young enough that they did not experience how easy flying used to be when people didn't have to take off their shoes or take apart their bags just to get through security...

 

9/11 changed a lot of things in this country and while it is true that there are a number of domestic terror incidents committed by white people, by in large, international terrorism and our own foreign grown terrorism is and was perpetrated predominately by non-whites.   Yes, as pointed out earlier, there is a large spectrum as to what is considered white, but let's just be really clear that in an average year anywhere in the world, the majority of people committing terrorism are not Northern European white looking and that is because people who are that pale (like me who sometimes has trouble finding makeup light enough) are an incredibly small percentage of the world population.

 

So, yeah, our really small population group is not being overly targeted because by in large, we don't tend to have incentive to defraud the immigration system or commit foreign related terrorism.  Maybe it is privilege, maybe it is culture, but that is another conversation.

 

Change the world dynamics and these things could change.  If Sweden, for example, suddenly started having domestic terrorism with large scale bomb attacks becoming their new norm, then yes it is likely that Swedes would get pulled into secondary and extensively questioned.  Why is this so hard to grasp?  Guess what, on a recent flight from Scandinavia that we took that I'm pretty sure was 90%white, all the people who got pulled into secondary were .... you guessed it, white.   

"Maybe it is privelege, maybe it is culture, but that is another conversation. Change the world dynamics and these things could change." You brought up some important points and key themes. Thank  you. History is wrapped up in all of this in so many complicated ways.

 

I don't want to get into the very convoluted discussion that would address why we are where we are today generally, or, in reference to screening procedures. I do think it is important to acknowledge that the terrorists I assume you are referring to as non-white" follow a particular and extremist ideology that is not representative of the vast majority of people who look like them (which in itself is a subjective judgement). This group of terrorists have attacked foreigners, but more frequently what you might categorize as their own people (I am referring to skin color and religious beliefs). So then, to also doubly screen a suspect group because, in appearance, they are similar to the perpetrators is a particularly unsavory situation and especially for those who may already be victims of these terrorists' actions. To put it in other words, you're assumed to be part of the problem you are trying to escape. If the hypothetical situation you've suggested above (i.e. Swedish terrorists) were true and we then started profiling Swedes...it wouldn't make it any more acceptable. Forgot the actual colors involved, it is the principal that is wrong. And forget right/wrong/morals, in general, research has shown additional screening (especially interrogation style) to be ineffective (Disclaimer: I am not advocating for the removal of extra screening, especially with the extra instability we now have, globally). 

 

I suppose, to put things into greater context (which I think is one of the reasons the airport screening/racial profiling theme deserves discussion), why don't we treat other harms to society in the same way? Think of all the gun-related terrorism we've had in America and the lack of progress we've experienced in curbing this...it reflects a double standard. And, while I don't advocate for racial profiling of any group. If we really think it is an effective way of finding and stopping terrorists, why are we not racially profiling to curb white supremacists engaging in hate crimes and terrorism (especially considering the increase in hate crimes towards those considered "minorities" recently)? So nobody interprets this incorrectly - I am not advocating profiling of any race.

 

Finally, somebody earlier brought along the topic of "hard statistics" and I think this was very important. We should stray away from pointing to any conclusions or presenting anything as a fact without real data. And if you are familiar with data and statistics, you will also be familiar with the additional problems in presenting and interpreting the data, even when it is available. So to state that " by in large, international terrorism and our own foreign grown terrorism is and was perpetrated predominately by non-whites" as a fact without data is i) a fallacy and ii) stated without consideration of what is defined as terrorism.

 

[Marco&Bettina 502]

2 hours ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

Change the world dynamics and these things could change.  If Sweden, for example, suddenly started having domestic terrorism with large scale bomb attacks becoming their new norm, then yes it is likely that Swedes would get pulled into secondary and extensively questioned.  Why is this so hard to grasp?  Guess what, on a recent flight from Scandinavia that we took that I'm pretty sure was 90%white, all the people who got pulled into secondary were .... you guessed it, white.   

^^^This all day. It's really not a complicated concept. Is it friendly? Is it pretty? Is it fair? Does it make innocent people trying to get back to their lives, friends, family, and jobs in their own country happy? No to all of those questions but it is what it is.

[TBoneTX 45,287]

A couple of really off-topic posts have been removed.  Despite the thoughtful recent conversation, please return your focus to the thread's topic of the President's published immigration policies.

[FOSSLGRL 63]

On 3/2/2017 at 10:14 PM, lazybones18 said:

When i was flying from Dubai to Los Angeles last month.... i saw a white girl in the secondary inspection room .... however, there were about 15-20 brown people

 

thought i would just add

 

I would imagine a flight from Dubai to LA would be primarily dark skinned people.

 

When my husband flew to/from UAE he said that he was the only white person in sight once he boarded his plane, save for a handful of Europeans.

[Boiler 45,486]

I rember waiting to go through Immigration in Washington, a plane load from a South American country arrived, did not seem to be anybody over 5ft.

 

At Newark a plane came in from Rome, I was in no rush and it was most amusing watch them elbow their way through.

 

United at Heathrow used to be next to whatever airline flew to Nigeria, now that was a spectacle, with the amount of excess luggage wondered how the plane ever too off.

[Marco&Bettina 502]

26 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I rember waiting to go through Immigration in Washington, a plane load from a South American country arrived, did not seem to be anybody over 5ft.

 

At Newark a plane came in from Rome, I was in no rush and it was most amusing watch them elbow their way through.

 

United at Heathrow used to be next to whatever airline flew to Nigeria, now that was a spectacle, with the amount of excess luggage wondered how the plane ever too off.

It's funny watching people from all around the world. It's also funny when you just sit and watch Americans.

[Patient 57]

So we now have the focus on the immigrants again with the RAISE Act (RAISE stands for "Reforming American Immigration for Strong Employment") - to add to the screening process, grant favoritism to English speakers and a revaluation of financial support because as a Green Card holder you will not receive any form of welfare. Despite paying your taxes, social security and being a legal immigrant. So, when you get one, plan to take up citizenship as soon as possible, then you can vote and have all the rights a citizen can have.  

 

Remember It is not law yet, so the new "merit-based" system will be the subject of much rumor. It is also affected already because of  "Trumpism" .... new English word defined as a statement with more than one meaning and designed to confuse all!  His statement contradicts another one he made earlier and Tweeted c. 2 months ago when asked whether he was looking to curb legal immigration rather than simply illegal immigration.

 

Trump insisted "he wanted people to immigrate legally, albeit under a "merit-based" system."

 

There are many visa classes America offers most other countries do not, so a change is welcomed, yet like all things touched by "Mr T" the publicity grabbing headline is often different to the reality of the outcomes.

 

The key points:

 

• It would reform the way extended family members of U.S. citizens get green cards by giving those with work-based skills priority. This would impact ability to bring parents, relatives who are elderly straight away.
• The goal of the RAISE act would be to reduce the number of green cards issued from about 1 million to an estimated 500,000 per year. 
• In addition, it would prohibit those legal immigrants who hold green cards from receiving welfare, although they will still be required to pay into the state and federal tax system. Most immigrants today can’t get food stamps, Medicaid or Social Security from the government until they’ve resided in the country for at least five years.
• The Act would get rid of the "Diversity Visa Program" - we all know this is not working the way it should and was originally designed to do so, so await a new form in 4 years if this is repealed.
• The new immigration system would favour financially stable English speakers - there will be an exam or similar, many countries have thought about this so watch this space because a) it takes time to implement b) no systems exist today to provide the tests c) abuse and manipulation of the test has no safeguards discussed AND d) Who will pay for its creation, staff training, roll-out and management - THE wall was not funded 100%
• The RAISE Act Was Introduced Into Congress in February - BUT was read twice in Senate, referred to the Committee on the Judiciary on February 13 and version 2 is now in play. It has to go through the process again. 

 

“The RAISE Act prevents new immigrants and new migrants from collecting welfare, and protects U.S. workers from being displaced,” Trump said. “That’s a very big thing. They’re not going to come in and just immediately go and collect welfare. That’s not going to happen under the RAISE Act, they can’t do that.”  ....... another Trumpism here .... as a Green Card holder and one who passes a drug test, you will be embraced by employers because so many Americans fail the mandatory drug tests now being imposed on new hires! 

 

You will displace an American for a new job, life and not feel guilty that a drug-taker needs your help and your taxes and social security contributions to help them get better.

 

We are all in this together in "TEAM USA" ..... I am off now to learn Spanish the second language of my future home. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ahmed&Roma 6]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 7:36 AM, firebird00 said:

Does anyone have links for the new immigration policies/actions/reforms that is already published?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/09/24/enhancing-vetting-capabilities-and-processes-detecting-attempted-entry

[corvusheart 163]

Has anyone heard about DHS beginning to monitor all social media and search results from immigrants including naturalized citizens? Says it will take effect on October 18th. Also says all visa applicants will need to list all their social handles to the government. Does this mean every green card holder and naturalized citizen is going to get something in the mail as well requesting social handles? My husband who is in the middle of ROC shut down his Facebook 3 years ago. He doesn't even remember the login information is he going to have to try to find out some way for these new rules?

https://gizmodo.com/us-homeland-security-will-start-collecting-social-media-1818777094

[Little_Vixen 1,869]

41 minutes ago, corvusheart said:

Has anyone heard about DHS beginning to monitor all social media and search results from immigrants including naturalized citizens? Says it will take effect on October 18th. Also says all visa applicants will need to list all their social handles to the government. Does this mean every green card holder and naturalized citizen is going to get something in the mail as well requesting social handles? My husband who is in the middle of ROC shut down his Facebook 3 years ago. He doesn't even remember the login information is he going to have to try to find out some way for these new rules?

https://gizmodo.com/us-homeland-security-will-start-collecting-social-media-1818777094

 

Well we've all joked around before on officers reading along on this site, so it's really not a big shock. And I know for a fact most employers here in the Netherlands do a google search on your name ad look at your Facebook, Twitter, ect. I wonder how far they take this. I am on soooo many websites (pagan forums, horse forums, fish forums, border collie forums, sheepherding forums, chicken forum, archives forums, library forums, immigration forums, writers forums... oh God... I have no life...)

 

Anyway, I'm more worried about my google search history. I google just about everything and I'm pretty sure some of it's shady. I mean, I'm a historian and I write historical and fantasy novels a as hobby. So yeah, I have google searches on how to poison people, how to break through city walls, war strategy's and how to plant spies into enemy ranks. Things like that. 

 

Besides, how are they all going to do that? You will need a team of people that speaks every possible language on the planet to be able to screen the facebookpages of all immigrants. They barely have enough time to process our applications as it is.