Trump's published Immigration policies MEGATHREAD

[Marco&Bettina 502]

23 hours ago, wildcrdj said:

Yes, I know these two personally. Also a couple people at work (I work for a large multinational company) have had this problem (on green card and also on H1B, but not from the 7 countries). The two I know are Japanese GC holders like my wife who (unlike her) have lived here for decades (since Japan has no dual citizenship, its rare for Japanese to become US citizens). At work I personally know a Pakistani citizen with green card (not one of the 7) and a Egyptian citizen with H1B (not one of the 7) who had major detain/delay scenarios (again, both eventually let in). 

 

I'm not talking about being denied entry, but being pulled aside for a couple hours of extra screening/questioning. That is not normal in their/my experience for green card holders, however. Even the normally routine questioning people encounter has been more aggressive recently. It's not like it was before January (and may not be again, given the direction CBP is heading). 

There's nothing wrong with additional screening. Honestly, screening has been needing improvement for years. It's about people being illegally refused entry that's the issue and that seems to be a non-issue.

[AH&ZK 4]

43 minutes ago, Marco&Bettina said:

There's nothing wrong with additional screening. Honestly, screening has been needing improvement for years. It's about people being illegally refused entry that's the issue and that seems to be a non-issue.

There's nothing wrong with additional screening...provided it is additional screening in a fair and balanced way. Additional screening for people who look a particular way or have a particular name (which often happens), regardless of whether they are visa, GC, or passport holders is also part of the problem. 

[Marco&Bettina 502]

4 minutes ago, AH&ZK said:

There's nothing wrong with additional screening...provided it is additional screening in a fair and balanced way. Additional screening for people who look a particular way or have a particular name (which often happens), regardless of whether they are visa, GC, or passport holders is also part of the problem. 

Who says that's what they're doing?

[wildcrdj 12]

1 hour ago, Marco&Bettina said:

There's nothing wrong with additional screening. Honestly, screening has been needing improvement for years. It's about people being illegally refused entry that's the issue and that seems to be a non-issue.

GC holders who have been in the country for decades being detained for hours with no explanation is not OK. I mean, it's legal, sure. But it's not how America used to be. We've decided to move away from being a country of immigrants to a country of suspicion and hatred, and its VERY obvious to anyone who has done a border crossing recently.

 

And we don't need additional screening, there is no actual problem being solved here. 

[Marco&Bettina 502]

6 minutes ago, wildcrdj said:

GC holders who have been in the country for decades being detained for hours with no explanation is not OK. I mean, it's legal, sure. But it's not how America used to be. We've decided to move away from being a country of immigrants to a country of suspicion and hatred, and its VERY obvious to anyone who has done a border crossing recently.

 

And we don't need additional screening, there is no actual problem being solved here. 

They should be randomly doing additional screening of everyone. Not just GC holders who have been in the country for decades or whomever else people claim they are targetting.

[AH&ZK 4]

3 hours ago, Marco&Bettina said:

Who says that's what they're doing?

Based on the (high) number of cases I'm familiar with in my personal life (beyond family to social circles) and also those that have seen shared online, be it through social media or the several reputable news articles that have been published more recently, they have been pulling aside people with any 'perceivable' ties to specific identities. Racial profiling is real thing in this country and until we acknowledge that inconvenient truth we're bound to go backwards.

 

Yes, I believe in administering measures that increase the safety of my great nation...but only if it is truly fair and random. Consistently conducted, so-called "random" checks of people who are or appear Middle Eastern or Muslim is unacceptable. 

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

2 hours ago, AH&ZK said:

Based on the (high) number of cases I'm familiar with in my personal life (beyond family to social circles) and also those that have seen shared online, be it through social media or the several reputable news articles that have been published more recently, they have been pulling aside people with any 'perceivable' ties to specific identities. Racial profiling is real thing in this country and until we acknowledge that inconvenient truth we're bound to go backwards.

 

Yes, I believe in administering measures that increase the safety of my great nation...but only if it is truly fair and random. Consistently conducted, so-called "random" checks of people who are or appear Middle Eastern or Muslim is unacceptable. 

 

There are plenty of lily white people who get pulled into secondary as well, they just don't whine racism on the internet about it.

 

Do you have any hard stats about the increase of certain ethnicities being thoroughly questioned in secondary?  If not, stop presenting it as fact.   Do you have any statistics to back up that they are less likely to overstay or abuse visa privileges?   

[David&Femke 91]

1 hour ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

There are plenty of lily white people who get pulled into secondary as well, they just don't whine racism on the internet about it.

 

Do you have any hard stats about the increase of certain ethnicities being thoroughly questioned in secondary?  If not, stop presenting it as fact.   Do you have any statistics to back up that they are less likely to overstay or abuse visa privileges?   

Racisme and discrimenation is not limited to poeple who are not white, White people can also be discrimeted against. But another wrong does not justify the first. And there is a differens between having to open up your bags and explain what you are traveling for in a side room, and beeing interegated for over 12 hours, and that is what I think people are talking about. extra vetting can go to far, and that does more often happen with people that are coloured.

Me beeing one of the "lucky" white people that also gets picked out of the line becauase I made a mestake on a visa waver, can tell you that i am usually the only white person in a full waiting room for the extra fetting. And for me they extually do have a good reason to ask extra questions, and usually takes about an hours but that is not the same for all the rest of the poeple there

On a side note that is not specific to this adminestartion, but also the years before.

Edited March 2, 2017 by David&Femke

[AH&ZK 4]

1 hour ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

There are plenty of lily white people who get pulled into secondary as well, they just don't whine racism on the internet about it.

 

Do you have any hard stats about the increase of certain ethnicities being thoroughly questioned in secondary?  If not, stop presenting it as fact.   Do you have any statistics to back up that they are less likely to overstay or abuse visa privileges?   

Interesting. Firstly, for the record. I am not whining, but adding to an ongoing discussion. If you disagree with my view, there's no reason to belittle it as totally unsubstantiated. We're all adults here, can have a discussion, and learn from each other.

 

I'm glad you asked re: statistics, because I found there was very little out there! Which means without evidence, either one of us could be correct.

 

That said, racial profiling is something that is well recorded in our history books and is something that is ongoing at airports. But perhaps I misread what you wrote and you are not denying this exists, but consider it to be good practice (and that would be another discussion). Some literature reporting on racial profiling, including at airports and especially after 9/11:

 

http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/social/rights/profiling

http://www.civilrights.org/publications/reports/racial-profiling2011/the-reality-of-racial.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

http://brandongaille.com/15-rare-airport-racial-profiling-statistics/

 

You've left me a bit curious though, can you elaborate on the examples you've stated? White people, as people of many backgrounds, do get pulled aside for random screening. If you have any experience or articles to share, I'd be really interested in learning whether they were being checked the same way that a population subject to racial profiling might have been. This would include questions related to your ethnicity/name, your business in this country (asked even of citizens with continuous residency), and ties to "suspect" countries one may never have step foot in. I've been pulled aside for a random extra check, where just my bags are thoroughly reviewed again and my palms swabbed. However, I've been lucky to not have been through an intensive interrogation style secondary check that I'm referring to as "racial profiling".

 

As a slight aside, a "white" person (and any other ethnicity, really) can also be mistaken as Middle Eastern/Muslim and therefore a suspect for someone with ties to terrorism. This has also happened. The problem that I am referring to is that people suspect to have a certain background are then suspect of terrorism. That is not right.

 

Like I said previously, I prefer a safer America. If that means greater TSA scrutiny, so be it. It should just be fairly implemented.

[AH&ZK 4]

15 minutes ago, David&Femke said:

Racisme and discrimenation is not limited to poeple who are not white, White people can also be discrimeted against. But another wrong does not justify the first. And there is a differens between having to open up your bags and explain what you are traveling for in a side room, and beeing interegated for over 12 hours, and that is what I think people are talking about. extra vetting can go to far, and that does more often happen with people that are coloured.

Me beeing one of the "lucky" white people that also gets picked out of the line becauase I made a mestake on a visa waver, can tell you that i am usually the only white person in a full waiting room for the extra fetting. And for me they extually do have a good reason to ask extra questions, and usually takes about an hours but that is not the same for all the rest of the poeple there

On a side note that is not specific to this adminestartion, but also the years before.

Agreed and unfortunately a sad truth that racism covers "everything under the rainbow".

 

Yes - at least in my blurb, I'm differentiating between a random extra check versus extra vetting that takes place in another room for hours and can be enormously taxing on many levels. 

 

And, yes, while I think there is more light cast on the interrogation style check under the current administration (and it perhaps did get to an extreme - can't say for sure without stats), it is not unique to this administration.

[TBoneTX 45,668]

I'm more familiar with land POEs (Texas/Mexico).

CBP can (and does) pull anyone into secondary for any reason at any time.

It could be for training purposes.

It could be "every third car."

It could be because a license plate has the letter "H" in it.

It's irritating, but (at least for USCs, perhaps most LPRs) it's "just" a couple of hours out of our lives.

It will be interesting to see if CBP agents' typically foul moods have improved under the new administration.

[Marco&Bettina 502]

10 hours ago, David&Femke said:

Racisme and discrimenation is not limited to poeple who are not white, White people can also be discrimeted against. But another wrong does not justify the first. And there is a differens between having to open up your bags and explain what you are traveling for in a side room, and beeing interegated for over 12 hours, and that is what I think people are talking about. extra vetting can go to far, and that does more often happen with people that are coloured.

Me beeing one of the "lucky" white people that also gets picked out of the line becauase I made a mestake on a visa waver, can tell you that i am usually the only white person in a full waiting room for the extra fetting. And for me they extually do have a good reason to ask extra questions, and usually takes about an hours but that is not the same for all the rest of the poeple there

On a side note that is not specific to this adminestartion, but also the years before.

If you were only there an hour, how do you know that the rest of them were vetted much longer than an hour? Yes, profiling exists in this country. I know as I've been profiled in my life. However, I think a lot of this new stuff going on is just stirred up by the media to divide our country further.

[David&Femke 91]

 

7 hours ago, Marco&Bettina said:

If you were only there an hour, how do you know that the rest of them were vetted much longer than an hour? Yes, profiling exists in this country. I know as I've been profiled in my life. However, I think a lot of this new stuff going on is just stirred up by the media to divide our country further.

in one indstance i was there for about 20 hours myself the time that i made the mistake, and the times sind then that i am there for an hour when i come in i see the same people as when i leave so its defenate they are there longer then me.
Also you can kind of see when someone has been waiting for a wile or just arrived, someone that just comes in looks nervous and someone that has been nervous for a really long time looks defeated ( ofcourse that is a quess) But messuring poeple is a part of my job so it is an educated quess.

Of course i dont know the whole story and they might have a good reason for it, and you are right that it just devodes things more, and that has its downsides,
Butbeeing a silent bystander is mot alwys morally right.

Edited March 2, 2017 by David&Femke

[Lazybones18 261]

When i was flying from Dubai to Los Angeles last month.... i saw a white girl in the secondary inspection room .... however, there were about 15-20 brown people

 

thought i would just add

[TBoneTX 45,668]

And what was the racial composition of the passengers on the flights that had recently arrived?