Trump's published Immigration policies MEGATHREAD

[Suss&Camm 2,213]

1 hour ago, cardinal said:

This NYT breakdown may be helpful and seems fairly accurate now (although there were definitely USCs being detained here in the DC area over the weekend) 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/31/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-groups.html

 

One question - I live in area with big immigrant communities and I have heard through the grapevine of dual citizens, LPRs, and visa holders being asked by CBP about whether they like/support Donald Trump (I apologize that I don't have a news article to link to on this - I do trust the sources I heard this from). As a dual citizen (France) born in the US, I would have no problem telling them exactly what *I* think - but for LPRs and visa holders, particularly those from muslim majority countries - should they say that they like the president (even if that is not the case)? Can you be denied entry for mainstream political views?

IF they do in fact not "like" him and want to be truthful but are worried, they could express it from a pragmatic stand-point such as "There are many politicians I might disagree with, and I believe a great thing about the US is the freedom to disagree and protest" OR maybe "I might disagree with him, but I respect his authority as president."

 

Idk.. I can't imagine on any level that they are required to say they love him if they don't to be able to enter the US. That would truly be a violation of basic human liberties.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Suss&Camm

[yuna628 9,676]

2 minutes ago, Suss&Camm said:

IF they do in fact not "like" him and want to be truthful but are worried, they could express it from a pragmatic stand-point such as "There are many politicians I might disagree with, and I believe a great thing about the US is the freedom to disagree and protest" OR maybe "I might disagree with him, but I respect his authority as president."

 

Idk.. I can't imagine on any level that they are required to say they love him if they don't to be able to enter the US. That would truly be a violation of basic human liberties.

It would be extremely troubling indeed that under threat or coercion, the CBP could chill a person's right to free speech and free thought... but it seems like anything goes this past weekend..

[Lemonslice 4,848]

9 hours ago, Transborderwife said:

This is something I find interesting.  When I was sent to secondary almost three years ago I was told by cbp that they absolutely were not allowed to do this.  They said that they could not go through my cell or my computer, nobody could be called to verify plans etc.  this was at a pre screen in Toronto.  Even the supervisor said the same thing

They have been doing it with a while.  Overview (and links to the Privacy Impact Assessment - CBP and ICE Border Searches of Electronic Devices ) - here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/fear-materialized-border-agents-demand-social-media-data-americans

 

Quote

Process Travelers arriving at a port of entry must go through primary inspection, where a CBP Officer checks the traveler’s documentation and determines the traveler’s admissibility to the United States. During primary inspection, the CBP Officer may determine, through his observations or through an alert indicated on the primary inspection computer screen, that the traveler warrants further examination and thus will refer the traveler to secondary inspection. Travelers are typically referred to secondary inspection to resolve immigration, customs, or other law enforcement matters. At secondary inspection, a CBP Officer or ICE Special Agent may ask the traveler questions and inspect the traveler’s possessions to detect violations or evidence of violations of law. This border search may include examination of documents, books, pamphlets, and other printed material, as well as computers, storage disks, hard drives, phones, personal digital assistants (PDAs), cameras, and other electronic devices.

 

[Suss&Camm 2,213]

18 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It would be extremely troubling indeed that under threat or coercion, the CBP could chill a person's right to free speech and free thought... but it seems like anything goes this past weekend..

I'm not saying this is what's going on, I' don't normally go with the "conspiracy thing" either I'm too naive or I live in reality. Which it is, the future will tell. It is thought provoking though, and in theory could happen. 

 

https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-immigration-ban-is-a-headfake-and-were-falling-for-it-b8910e78f0c5#.b7a3qu6qj

 

"When I read about the incredibly active first week of the Trump administration, I struggle with two competing narratives about what’s really going on. The first story is simple: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is shaky. The second is more sinister: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand..."

 

I tend to see the world in more pink nuances than that  good or bad..

[Suss&Camm 2,213]

10 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

They have been doing it with a while.  Overview (and links to the Privacy Impact Assessment - CBP and ICE Border Searches of Electronic Devices ) - here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/fear-materialized-border-agents-demand-social-media-data-americans

 

 

You can refuse to hand them access to that, but ofc at a high risk of being denied entry.

[Lemonslice 4,848]

6 minutes ago, Suss&Camm said:

You can refuse to hand them access to that, but ofc at a high risk of being denied entry.

Exactly. If you refuse, the border agent may seize your device for further inspection or consider you uncooperative... and not allow you to enter the United States if you are not a citizen.  That is not unique to the United States though - border crossing "search" rules are often different than in country. 

[Suss&Camm 2,213]

3 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Exactly. If you refuse, the border agent may seize your device for further inspection or consider you uncooperative... and not allow you to enter the United States if you are not a citizen.  That is not unique to the United States though - border crossing "search" rules are often different than in country. 

yep

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

9 hours ago, prenouveau said:

I agree with others advising you not to go right now. I was listening to NPR's call in show "Indivisible" last night, and a man called saying he is a US citizen of Pakistani descent and he and his wife were detained at a US airport this weekend for hours after returning from their honeymoon. He said no explanation was given, they were kept in a holding area and finally released just before their connecting flight took off. You can listen to it here: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/indivisible/ (it's the most recent episode, this guys calls in at around the 15 min. mark).

 

The problem I have with these stories is that it can be perfectly normal to be brought into secondary, detained, and questioned or not.  I've witnessed it happening to Scandinavians on our recent trip and even we, American citizens included, sat in secondary before they had time to process my husband.  They are acting like this is something new.

[LionessDeon 2,060]

11 minutes ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

The problem I have with these stories is that it can be perfectly normal to be brought into secondary, detained, and questioned or not.  I've witnessed it happening to Scandinavians on our recent trip and even we, American citizens included, sat in secondary before they had time to process my husband.  They are acting like this is something new.

Maybe it's was for those individuals. Just coincidence that it happened the same time as the EO being issued....I guess that could be possible

[verneforchat 139]

4 hours ago, theresaL said:

I really wish people from non-affected countries would stop feeding into the mass hysteria over this issue. Yes, I understand that everyone is nervous, yes I understand there is some confusion, yes I agree the roll-out was poorly executed, but unless you are from or are a dual national from one of the countries on the list please calm down. This is not a permanent "ban" it is a temporary 90  suspension of entry into the US from the 7 countries on the list. The President has full authority to do this and it is legal. Stop believing everything you hear from the main stream media or read on social media. They are in the process of clarifying the gray areas and clearly communicating to CBP as to how and who this applies to. This whole process is stressful enough without bringing more stress onto yourself unnecessarily.

I like the way you are assuring people like you actually have a clue of what is happening at CBP in the airports.

 

You don't, so there no need for you to make an effort to assuage our well founded fears.

If we don't get our news from the news media, do I get it from you?

 

And no, I don't get my news from social media. 

[pantonia 39]

11 minutes ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

The problem I have with these stories is that it can be perfectly normal to be brought into secondary, detained, and questioned or not.  I've witnessed it happening to Scandinavians on our recent trip and even we, American citizens included, sat in secondary before they had time to process my husband.  They are acting like this is something new.

I think a lot of us aren't seeing these stories as a new unprecedented thing;  we are seeing them under the new perspective of the messily implemented executive order. Secondary screening has always been a thing, but now they may or may not mean something different. In other circumstances I would say to people to "risk it" since the worse that could happen in normal circumstances is to get an unpleasant time detained or an invasive interrogation/search and that is always a risk just by flying, but as things stand now, people could be risking not being allowed into the country at all. I understand not wanting to fall for fear mongering, but I believe that an abundance of caution for now is not crazy. 

[verneforchat 139]

2 hours ago, theresaL said:

Not opinion, a fact of law. As for Green card holders and others with valid visas issued before the EO was signed that is another matter and has been clarified that the EO does not apply to people in those situations. Of course someone can challenge the law and have it review/ruled upon by the Supreme Court. 

 

Under 8 US Code § 1182 – Inadmissible aliens

“…(f) Suspension of Entry or Imposition of Restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.”

 

Here is the link fo rthe full US Code

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

 

Additionally, this specifically relates to 212(f) of Immigration Nad Nationality Act (INA)

https://www.scribd.com/document/337923171/Congressional-Research-Service-Executive-Authority-to-Exclude-Aliens-In-Brief#from_embed

 

 

And yet those two Syrian families who were Orthodox christians and had IMMIGRANT visas were sent back.

 

Only if you were there at CBP to help them interpret this law...

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

5 minutes ago, pantonia said:

I think a lot of us aren't seeing these stories as a new unprecedented thing;  we are seeing them under the new perspective of the messily implemented executive order. Secondary screening has always been a thing, but now they may or may not mean something different. In other circumstances I would say to people to "risk it" since the worse that could happen in normal circumstances is to get an unpleasant time detained or an invasive interrogation/search and that is always a risk just by flying, but as things stand now, people could be risking not being allowed into the country at all. I understand not wanting to fall for fear mongering, but I believe that an abundance of caution for now is not crazy. 

 

Oh definitely, I wouldn't fly right now if I was from a MENA country.  Nobody needs that kind of stress.  

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by N-o-l-a

[verneforchat 139]

22 minutes ago, N-o-l-a said:

 

The problem I have with these stories is that it can be perfectly normal to be brought into secondary, detained, and questioned or not.  I've witnessed it happening to Scandinavians on our recent trip and even we, American citizens included, sat in secondary before they had time to process my husband.  They are acting like this is something new.

Not new, but treatment differs on where they are arriving from.

[verneforchat 139]

12 minutes ago, pantonia said:

I think a lot of us aren't seeing these stories as a new unprecedented thing;  we are seeing them under the new perspective of the messily implemented executive order. Secondary screening has always been a thing, but now they may or may not mean something different. In other circumstances I would say to people to "risk it" since the worse that could happen in normal circumstances is to get an unpleasant time detained or an invasive interrogation/search and that is always a risk just by flying, but as things stand now, people could be risking not being allowed into the country at all. I understand not wanting to fall for fear mongering, but I believe that an abundance of caution for now is not crazy. 

Exactly.

 

Previously, getting into secondary processing was a mild inconvenience and nothing to fear about if all your ducks were in a row.

 

Now under this chaotic administration, you don't know when Cheetolini wakes up signing another made up EO hastily assembled by President Bannon, and wham! you are on a list cause you are brown, or don't speak English. Or look or talk funny.

 

And suddenly you are in a room with no legal representation and don't know if you will be back home to feed your fish or water your plants. 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by verneforchat