Regional Forums

[Andy 2]

Besides that, I guess I don't see the problem with leaving a thread where it was originally posted (if posted in a regional forum), particulary if it is very consulate specific or may help another poster. (Yes it leaves a link to the old thread, but those fall off the main page quite quickly in the original forum.) Unless its just blatently in the wrong place.

The problem is three-fold. Firstly that if posted in a place that isn't intended to be an immigration discussion area there's a real danger that it doesn't get answered, or seen, by people who might want to answer or see it because they're not looking there, while it may well be answered by others from the same area who don't have a clue but answer anyway. Secondly, that it may not be all that specific to the consulate just that 'practice' seems to be to post consular questions there, in which case it might be answerable by more seasoned users looking for consular questions in the right place, and thirdly, that if it has to be moved, it leaves two places to look and results in users seeing less coherence to the structure and more confusion than necessary. Oh, and fourth of the three reasons, it draws users away from the places where common information on the processes, procedures, documentation and forms, and general advice are to be found, which means we are actually making it harder for users to get informed and prepared, not easier. Oh heck, and ON EDIT, the fifth of three reasons is that it requires far more constant attention to ensure threads are in the right place than would be needed if the structure was right in the first place.

Edited April 4, 2007 by Andy

[diadromous mermaid 36]

What other ways can we use to encourage people to post in the 'right' place to start with?

If members' posts tend to be derived, initially, from one thought that when articulated within a first post then evolve into a much more complex series of questions, there's a good chance that a thread would end up in the wrong place. I don't know if this is even possible, or if it would be of value, either, but how about considering implementation of a widget of sorts, part of the posting screen that pops up (like the spell check used to) prior to the post/thread being made live that queries "Is this in the best forum?" and has a drop down feature like at the base of each page, that could be toggled to place the thread in a more appropriate one? The thread creator would have to confirm that the best forum has been selected.......

[Andy 2]

What other ways can we use to encourage people to post in the 'right' place to start with?

By having the right place to begin with, in a logical structure, clearly labeled.

[Yodrak 7]

meauxna,

By changing a few of the forum names. Several that come to immediately to mind:

K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures General Discussion --> I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS

K-3 Spouse Visa General Discussion --> I-129f For Spouse Processing By USCIS

The Foreign Embassy and Consulate General Discussion --> K Visa Application Processing By DOS Consulates

Might also have the added benefit of getting people to understand that petitions are not visa applications or visas, and visa applications and visas are not petitions. Not holding my breath, though.

I think I'll also kick in a suggestion for a new forum (or 2), also named so as to hopefully improve understanding:

- Sponsorship For K-Visa Applicants - Meeting The Public Charge Provisions Of The Law (no mention of I-134 intentional)

- Sponsorship For Immigrant Visa And Adjustment Of Status Applicants - I-864 Affidavit Of Support

Yodrak

What other ways can we use to encourage people to post in the 'right' place to start with?

Edited April 4, 2007 by Yodrak

[meauxna 15]

K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures General Discussion --> I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS

K-3 Spouse Visa General Discussion --> I-129f For Spouse Processing By USCIS

I've been thinking about the whole petition/visa argument as well.

Re: the above, what is the significant difference that would keep the 2 above fora from being one and the same?

[Jenn! 918]

Excellent suggestions, Yodrak.

[Yodrak 7]

meauxna,

All of the I-130 questions that show up in the K3 forum, some of which are reasonably there but some of which really would have been better posted in the Immigrant Visa forum. Anyway, we don't need to add to the confusion of fiance(e)s by having I-130 posts in the same forum with them, and they also don't need all of the 'which way should I go' angst of the K3 people.

There is overlap between K1 and K3 at the petition stage, just as there is overlap between K3 and immigrant visa at the petition stage. At the time I was not in favor of splitting the spouse visa forum into K3 and immigrant visa, but now I'm ambivalent about it. There's no clean way to segregate a lot of issues cleanly, the choices are subjective.

Yodrak

K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures General Discussion --> I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS

K-3 Spouse Visa General Discussion --> I-129f For Spouse Processing By USCIS

I've been thinking about the whole petition/visa argument as well.

Re: the above, what is the significant difference that would keep the 2 above fora from being one and the same?

Edited April 4, 2007 by Yodrak

[Andy 2]

meauxna,

By changing a few of the forum names. Several that come to immediately to mind:

K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures General Discussion --> I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS

K-3 Spouse Visa General Discussion --> I-129f For Spouse Processing By USCIS

The Foreign Embassy and Consulate General Discussion --> K Visa Application Processing By DOS Consulates

Might also have the added benefit of getting people to understand that petitions are not visa applications or visas, and visa applications and visas are not petitions. Not holding my breath, though.

I think I'll also kick in a suggestion for a new forum (or 2), also named so as to hopefully improve understanding:

- Sponsorship For K-Visa Applicants - Meeting The Public Charge Provisions Of The Law (no mention of I-134 intentional)

- Sponsorship For Immigrant Visa And Adjustment Of Status Applicants - I-864 Affidavit Of Support

The only problem with that is that it presupposes that users, particularly those who come here for the first time and right at the start of the journey, have knowledge of what an I-129F is, or the USCIS, DOS etc, or what type of visa is involved. For us, as seasoned users, these terms and the overall procedure are so familiar that we take such knowledge pretty much for granted, but a new user trying to find their first answers and take their first step, that would be a pretty unfriendly and unhelpful set of areas to land on.

I also think that users don't so much confuse petitions and visas as see the whole thing as one process, which in many ways it is. Expecting people to understand the difference if they don't, or can't means that we shouldn't be developing solutions to things based on that understanding, otherwise we just make the problem worse.

I think we need to keep the language simple and the expectations of users low.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I have not read all the posts above yet but I wanted to comment that it is funny how the site goes in a full circle in terms of organization. At one point the site was organized by things like I-129f, I-130, etc then it was separated by benefits and other things, etc.

Another way that may help is to change the Visa Forums name by adding the term "Filing" to them, ex: K-3 Spouse Visa Filing General Discussion"; also... "Embassy and Consulate Visa Processing General Discussion", etc Just a thought.

[Andy 2]

Originally the site was organized much more simply than that of course because all the members were in the K-1 system. Then a few started asking about DCF and that grew out of it, then that broadened into K-3 when that visa type started. Then each process began to get broken up into segments to try and rationalize things, with additional areas for specialist help such as waivers etc when originally those had been handled in the specific visa type area before, because as much as there may be commonality in (for example) waiver filings, it was initially thought that questions relating to them were best viewed in the context of the process of the case as a whole.

To my thinking, it's an issue associated with that question recently brought up about the orientation of the site toward a focus either on cases or information. We started out as the first, and the structural approach of keeping everything in a cohesive whole was thusly consistent with the needs and expectations of the user, and the number of discrete discussion areas were fewer and broader. Then we began to grow informational content such as the FAQs and guides and see ourselves more as the provider of information than the discussion of cases/issues/problems, and the current structure is still evolving into one more consistent with that function than than the first.

To my observation, users do seem more interested in the case-based function than the informational, which would tend to explain why we may be moving, or need to consider moving, back to a less fragmented structure and a more logical and consistent one. But it may also be because we have typically been rather more reactive than proactive when considering structural and organizational issues, and find ourselves now at a point where we recognize the need to assist in the process of changing culture and climate here a little as we recently discussed, and see that reviewing structure and organization in that light is a positive step.

[Yodrak 7]

Andy,

Yes it does presuppose that a first-time visitor to the site has heard of some basic terms such as I-129f, I-130, K1, K3, etc. And my observation is that virtually all of them have heard of these terms. They're just not always clear on what they mean, and I think that VJ should try to provide that clarification right from the start.

Most first-timers already know that while I-129f and K1 or I-129f and K3 are closely related they are not always readily interchangeable terms. I think that my suggestions, or something similar, will plant a seed in their minds, and if the seed does not grow on it's own it may at least cause them to ask question that they don't otherwise. Either way, it nudges them in the direction of becoming more educated about what they're getting themselves involved in and will result in less rather than more confusion along the road to developing understanding.

The initial suggestions came quickly off the top of my head, I'm sure they can be improved on to make them both more 'user friendly' and more true to the process. How about I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS - 1st step to K1, for example?

As for encouraging low expectations, I think that does the community a dis-service.

Yodrak

meauxna,

By changing a few of the forum names. Several that come to immediately to mind:

K-1 Fiance(e) Visa Process & Procedures General Discussion --> I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS

K-3 Spouse Visa General Discussion --> I-129f For Spouse Processing By USCIS

The Foreign Embassy and Consulate General Discussion --> K Visa Application Processing By DOS Consulates

.....

The only problem with that is that it presupposes that users, particularly those who come here for the first time and right at the start of the journey, have knowledge of what an I-129F is, or the USCIS, DOS etc, or what type of visa is involved. For us, as seasoned users, these terms and the overall procedure are so familiar that we take such knowledge pretty much for granted, but a new user trying to find their first answers and take their first step, that would be a pretty unfriendly and unhelpful set of areas to land on.

......

I think we need to keep the language simple and the expectations of users low.

Edited April 4, 2007 by Yodrak

[Andy 2]

The initial suggestions came quickly off the top of my head, I'm sure they can be improved on to make them both more 'user friendly' and more true to the process. How about I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS - 1st step to K1, for example?

As for encouraging low expectations, I think that does the community a dis-service.

The point I was making in terms of discussion area titles is that they should be as free from 'jargon' as it is possible to be in order that their purpose is as clear as it could possible be.

And as for 'encouraging low expectations', you know better than to interpret what I said as meaning that in any sense. I said we need to keep our expectations low because only THAT way do we organize the site and it's contents in sufficiently clear terms that we can reasonably expect all users to be able to find their way around and use the resources here. The alternative is to expect behavior that is not realistic from our users and thus find that our best laid plans are more likely to miss their mark.

[Yodrak 7]

Andy,

Nothing in the titles I suggested was jargon - it was all appropriate terminology, which should be encouraged. Jargon should be discouraged.

Thanks for the clarification on the 'low expectations' comment. I was surprised when I read it, and perhaps I should have realized that I was mis-understanding given the source.

Yodrak

The initial suggestions came quickly off the top of my head, I'm sure they can be improved on to make them both more 'user friendly' and more true to the process. How about I-129f Petition For Fiance(e) Processing By USCIS - 1st step to K1, for example?

As for encouraging low expectations, I think that does the community a dis-service.

The point I was making in terms of discussion area titles is that they should be as free from 'jargon' as it is possible to be in order that their purpose is as clear as it could possible be.

And as for 'encouraging low expectations', you know better than to interpret what I said as meaning that in any sense. I said we need to keep our expectations low because only THAT way do we organize the site and it's contents in sufficiently clear terms that we can reasonably expect all users to be able to find their way around and use the resources here. The alternative is to expect behavior that is not realistic from our users and thus find that our best laid plans are more likely to miss their mark.

[LaL 418]

I went through several of the regional forums today. It seems like many are using it for immigration related issues and a bit of regional chit-chat mixed in between. Is it at all possible the site has just gotten too big & broad to house all consulate related info in one forum? Is Andy's idea to subforum the Embassy forum the solution to that? I see exactly what people are saying, but just remain skeptical that that one forum could remain organized enough to house it all.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I went through several of the regional forums today. It seems like many are using it for immigration related issues and a bit of regional chit-chat mixed in between. Is it at all possible the site has just gotten too big & broad to house all consulate related info in one forum? Is Andy's idea to subforum the Embassy forum the solution to that? I see exactly what people are saying, but just remain skeptical that that one forum could remain organized enough to house it all.

That is why we created the regional area in part to allow regional chatter to be separated. People may interject other issues but in the context of a regional discussion.