LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[peezey 0]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

I understand you clearly, and I totally disagree. I didn't get the impression from Henia at all that she meant that wives should demand this as a test but that a well-intentioned guy would **want** to do this and if he didn't, that would be a red flag. Coupled with the situations she is describing, and we all know they exist, it can say a lot about a person.

I don't understand why a man wouldn't work, and why expecting that he does equals demanding, no matter if it's selling tea, washing dishes, or cleaning toilets. Most people in the world feel their best when they are contributing in some way.

As I said, I think everyone makes their choices that are right for them based on what they know about their spouse, and I could care less, I'm not the CO and I don't have to live that couple's life. But for me, I see no reason an able-bodied person shouldn't work (caveat: unless they are going to school full time) just because s/he doesn't "need" to, and I would never suggest it to my own spouse knowing that it would make him feel like ####### that I was insinuating his contribution wasn't worth it, so he might as well just quit. If that's sad, well, I'll be sad.

[peezey 0]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Marriage should be about how the husband and wife best help each other. How they go about this- whether or not the husband works or what kind of job he works etc- should be a decision based on what both bring to the table and how each agree is the best to proceed for the both of them. When one demands something of their spouse it seems to me that the couple may not be on the same page with one another. Could be a receipe for disaster.

When you are waiting for a fiance visa, you aren't married. I really don't see how playing for free while your wife works helps the wife at all, but that's just my opinion. Couples make these choices all the time, and that's perfectly fine and not my business. My point is, it isn't sad if a woman is of the opinion a man should work if he is able, and doesn't send him money, even if it means selling ice cream.

[Marry American 0]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

I understand you clearly, and I totally disagree. I didn't get the impression from Henia at all that she meant that wives should demand this as a test but that a well-intentioned guy would **want** to do this and if he didn't, that would be a red flag. Coupled with the situations she is describing, and we all know they exist, it can say a lot about a person.

I don't understand why a man wouldn't work, and why expecting that he does equals demanding, no matter if it's selling tea, washing dishes, or cleaning toilets. Most people in the world feel their best when they are contributing in some way.

As I said, I think everyone makes their choices that are right for them based on what they know about their spouse, and I could care less, I'm not the CO and I don't have to live that couple's life. But for me, I see no reason an able-bodied person shouldn't work (caveat: unless they are going to school full time) just because s/he doesn't "need" to, and I would never suggest it to my own spouse knowing that it would make him feel like ####### that I was insinuating his contribution wasn't worth it, so he might as well just quit. If that's sad, well, I'll be sad.

Growing up in a household where my dad worked everyday of his life since he was 13 until retirement, and also an ex who worked hard everyday to afford a nice living for the both of us, it would be hard to be with a man that did not work at any point in the relationship.

It would even bother me if my man took days off from work. Go to work!! Earn a living!!

Edited April 3, 2007 by i adore you

[ya falaha! 0]

Doodle, I understand what you're saying and if you, personally, want to buy him a new bed that he'll use for a year go for it. Wouldn't it be better to take that $100 to buy some new linens or whatever that you guys could use together here? I know it's not about a bed, it's about wanting him to be comfortable. Do you think he stays up nights worrying about if YOU'RE comfortable? I'm doubting that. It's give and take. Until you're living in a "real" marriage then it's every man or woman for him/herself (in my world).

I don't work terribly hard for my money either. I sit on my rear and type all day..in between chit chatting with co workers, smoke and lunch breaks. The point is, you work for your money no matter how hard you work for it. You're still the one going out there every day. Your husband should be doing the same. These aren't children we're married to, they're grown men. Why should we coddle them?

[Jenn! 918]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

I understand you clearly, and I totally disagree. I didn't get the impression from Henia at all that she meant that wives should demand this as a test but that a well-intentioned guy would **want** to do this and if he didn't, that would be a red flag. Coupled with the situations she is describing, and we all know they exist, it can say a lot about a person.

I don't understand why a man wouldn't work, and why expecting that he does equals demanding, no matter if it's selling tea, washing dishes, or cleaning toilets. Most people in the world feel their best when they are contributing in some way.

As I said, I think everyone makes their choices that are right for them based on what they know about their spouse, and I could care less, I'm not the CO and I don't have to live that couple's life. But for me, I see no reason an able-bodied person shouldn't work (caveat: unless they are going to school full time) just because s/he doesn't "need" to, and I would never suggest it to my own spouse knowing that it would make him feel like ####### that I was insinuating his contribution wasn't worth it, so he might as well just quit. If that's sad, well, I'll be sad.

Well, I can agree to disagree.

If I were out of work and it took me six months to find another job in my field and we were not struggling financially, I would have no problem not contributing for those six months until I found a job. It's a different story if that lack of income would cause financial hardship. In that case, I would go get any job I could.

I don't know, I guess for me work is just a way to make money. It does not provide any sort of fulfillment or satisfaction for me. There are many other things I would rather be doing with my time. If I didn't need money, I would be doing those other things, not working.

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

Why should you feel guilty about having facials

[peezey 0]

If I were a guy I wouldn't think twice about sending money to him to even out the score as much as one can while their other half lives in a third world country, but for some reason because I'm a woman I feel strange about it. Obviously when he's here I'll be supporting him until he gets his work authority thingie and even after that for a couple of years I know I'll certainly be making more than him, so why just because he's living apart from me should I not help him out? (I don't know the answer to that question btw)

I wonder if sending money is viewed differently for spouses and fiances. I mean isn't it normal for a husband and wife to interminge their finaces? Doodle- have you considered opening an account in Egypt that you would both have access to? I think it would be normal for spouses living apart to spend thier funds in both countries- married couples are after all sustaining two households. Whereas fiances are not legally.

I don't think everyone intermingles finances, I know I never did. Our joint account for the purposes of AOS were just that and normally held a very small balance. I think financial decisions are usually made together, at least for big purchases or changes, but I have never intermingled finances. So for me, it's no different.

As Henia says, there is a huge difference between helping for an emergency and sending a crazy huge allowance to an able-bodied guy. Usually a guy living with his family has few expenses, and certainly not nearly the expenses of a household in the US. How much work is it to make a few bucks to pay for his cigarettes and coffee and save a little money? Frankly, I'd be resentful I was working and sending him money so he could mess around. What are the expenses of a young Moroccan or Egyptian guy that he can't at least get a day labor job a few times a week? (And no one tell me the jobs aren't there, at least in Morocco, there are options other than selling tea...my FIL hires at least 50 guys a day and always needs more, and even sends guys over to the cafe to ask if guys want work when not enough have shown up at the gates, and they are most often turned down. He pays $15/day plus 2 meals, which means if someone worked a whole month, that's $300 and a very decent salary for Morocco.)

[mybackpages 0]

Most people in the world feel their best when they are contributing in some way.

peezy, don't you agree that there are many ways to contribute beside monetarily? I think that a situation where the husband doesn;t work needs to be looked at in the specific circumstances of that couple. Sometimes not working is the best solution for the couple. I think everyone can agree that there are men who abuse this situation and the women who are supporting them, but not every nonworking man fits this category.

[ya falaha! 0]

Get your mind out of the gutter, Charles!

Why should you feel guilty about having facials

[doodlebug 3]

Doodle, I understand what you're saying and if you, personally, want to buy him a new bed that he'll use for a year go for it. Wouldn't it be better to take that $100 to buy some new linens or whatever that you guys could use together here? I know it's not about a bed, it's about wanting him to be comfortable. Do you think he stays up nights worrying about if YOU'RE comfortable? I'm doubting that. It's give and take. Until you're living in a "real" marriage then it's every man or woman for him/herself (in my world).

I don't work terribly hard for my money either. I sit on my rear and type all day..in between chit chatting with co workers, smoke and lunch breaks. The point is, you work for your money no matter how hard you work for it. You're still the one going out there every day. Your husband should be doing the same. These aren't children we're married to, they're grown men. Why should we coddle them?

Oh I totally think he should be working, and he is. I'm talking about supplementing him a bit while he is working. He would never not work, that's just not who he is. I just think if I wanna get him some things I should be able to but for some reason because I'm a woman it's like a double standard and not just with you but with him as well.

I know he doesn't stay up nights wondering if I'm comfy 'cause it's obvious that I'm comfy. I make a 6 figure salary and have a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood. He's seen my house and doesn't have any need to worry about me at all. Now, on the other hand, if I were broke and lived in a place that needed this or that, then yes I do believe he would worry about me and be up at nights thinking about it. I really do. I mean even now, knowing the situation I'm in, he is mad that he can't be here to do stupid stuff like fix the front light when it goes out or stain my back porch instead of my having to hire people to do it.

I also don't consider my marriage a paper marriage only, though I do know where you're coming from in that end. Obviously things will be different when he's here since it won't be all "i love you, i miss you, kiss kiss kiss" and all that but at the same time though we are indeed married. I just look at this time as a spiritual togetherness of sorts. We pray with each other, we make dua for each other and we share our most intimate (no not sexual Charles ) thoughts and hopes and fears with complete abandon and we get closer each and every day. Sure it will be quite the different experience when I have to wash his nasty socks, etc. but I still "feel" married.

[phila 0]

I have to disagree, that a guy living with his family has few expenses...

Omer lives with his mother, two sisters, and brother- all able bodied and working. But they are indeed working class- earning very little.

He gives nearly his entire paycheck to his family every week. (he earns quite a bit for Turkish standards- actually, more than a teacher- about $500 USD a week- working from 3pm until 5am 6 days a week)

His father recently passed, and his funds paid for the funeral. His family went into some debt a year and a half ago for his sisters wedding- he paid that, and his older sister just had a baby- he paid for that.

I have never sent him money, but I know he works very hard to provide for his family. Life is very hard financially for many people outside of the USA. It's not so easy- to "just go out and get a job'.

At the same time, I do believe a work ethic is important. It will be difficult for him to arrive here and not work.

[peezey 0]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

I understand you clearly, and I totally disagree. I didn't get the impression from Henia at all that she meant that wives should demand this as a test but that a well-intentioned guy would **want** to do this and if he didn't, that would be a red flag. Coupled with the situations she is describing, and we all know they exist, it can say a lot about a person.

I don't understand why a man wouldn't work, and why expecting that he does equals demanding, no matter if it's selling tea, washing dishes, or cleaning toilets. Most people in the world feel their best when they are contributing in some way.

As I said, I think everyone makes their choices that are right for them based on what they know about their spouse, and I could care less, I'm not the CO and I don't have to live that couple's life. But for me, I see no reason an able-bodied person shouldn't work (caveat: unless they are going to school full time) just because s/he doesn't "need" to, and I would never suggest it to my own spouse knowing that it would make him feel like ####### that I was insinuating his contribution wasn't worth it, so he might as well just quit. If that's sad, well, I'll be sad.

Well, I can agree to disagree.

If I were out of work and it took me six months to find another job in my field and we were not struggling financially, I would have no problem not contributing for those six months until I found a job. It's a different story if that lack of income would cause financial hardship. In that case, I would go get any job I could.

I don't know, I guess for me work is just a way to make money. It does not provide any sort of fulfillment or satisfaction for me. There are many other things I would rather be doing with my time. If I didn't need money, I would be doing those other things, not working.

I don't disagree about this necessarily, when you are here, together as a couple and have made this decision. I wouldn't run out and get a job immediately, either, especially since interviewing does take time. Couples make this choice all the time, take care of kids, a sick family member, start a business. But not every guy has a "field" though and waiting on a visa isn't time waiting on getting the right job, it's just waiting to get here.

Most people in the world feel their best when they are contributing in some way.

peezy, don't you agree that there are many ways to contribute beside monetarily? I think that a situation where the husband doesn;t work needs to be looked at in the specific circumstances of that couple. Sometimes not working is the best solution for the couple. I think everyone can agree that there are men who abuse this situation and the women who are supporting them, but not every nonworking man fits this category.

Certainly, once they are here and that can be assessed, but not waiting on a visa.

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

Get your mind out of the gutter, Charles!

Why should you feel guilty about having facials

[Henia 11]

Not sure if you all remember but i once heard of women here who SO had her send a monthly 1500$

Crikies! $1500 goes a really long way over there....

Yuuuuuuuuup considring the average person makes about 200-300$ monthly... chump change in the US, but a salary in the Maghreb. I know my husband makes about $600 monthly...and here that is way above average income. So no wonder some pople ou there, on the Net all say literally scoping out...future *rich*spouses... and i mean rich by their standards.

Alger is so easy! MAchAllah!

Henia don't rub it in!

Sorry!

Edited April 3, 2007 by Henia

[deemabrouk 0]

Doodle, I understand what you're saying and if you, personally, want to buy him a new bed that he'll use for a year go for it. Wouldn't it be better to take that $100 to buy some new linens or whatever that you guys could use together here? I know it's not about a bed, it's about wanting him to be comfortable. Do you think he stays up nights worrying about if YOU'RE comfortable? I'm doubting that. It's give and take. Until you're living in a "real" marriage then it's every man or woman for him/herself (in my world).

I don't work terribly hard for my money either. I sit on my rear and type all day..in between chit chatting with co workers, smoke and lunch breaks. The point is, you work for your money no matter how hard you work for it. You're still the one going out there every day. Your husband should be doing the same. These aren't children we're married to, they're grown men. Why should we coddle them?

Oh I totally think he should be working, and he is. I'm talking about supplementing him a bit while he is working. He would never not work, that's just not who he is. I just think if I wanna get him some things I should be able to but for some reason because I'm a woman it's like a double standard and not just with you but with him as well.

I know he doesn't stay up nights wondering if I'm comfy 'cause it's obvious that I'm comfy. I make a 6 figure salary and have a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood. He's seen my house and doesn't have any need to worry about me at all. Now, on the other hand, if I were broke and lived in a place that needed this or that, then yes I do believe he would worry about me and be up at nights thinking about it. I really do. I mean even now, knowing the situation I'm in, he is mad that he can't be here to do stupid stuff like fix the front light when it goes out or stain my back porch instead of my having to hire people to do it.

I also don't consider my marriage a paper marriage only, though I do know where you're coming from in that end. Obviously things will be different when he's here since it won't be all "i love you, i miss you, kiss kiss kiss" and all that but at the same time though we are indeed married. I just look at this time as a spiritual togetherness of sorts. We pray with each other, we make dua for each other and we share our most intimate (no not sexual Charles ) thoughts and hopes and fears with complete abandon and we get closer each and every day. Sure it will be quite the different experience when I have to wash his nasty socks, etc. but I still "feel" married.

I agree with you.. and SOOO many times I wish i could just give my Husband a 100 dollars here and there.. But he would die before he would take it from me. My first trip there (flight and the wedding) he spend SOOO much money - most of his savings - to give me the wedding of my dreams and to spoil me rotten. My last trip there I paid for the flight tickets.. But he drained the last of his saving to pay for our Flat, when we rented a car and again to spoil me rotten..

When I was there.. I Loved to prices of clothes and scarfs.. We would buy a skirt for 100 L.E.( about $17american dollars) and I thought that was awesome.. but for my husband.. 100 LE was alot for him The american Life is Quite different to the Life over there..

And I too feel married.. Even though my mornings are not yet waking up next to him.. he still knows what I do/ talk on a daily basis.. We both vent to eachother about things in our day.. Actually he HAS sent me 100 dollars when I was flat out broke.. So i dont know.. Maybe i am just crazy. But this is Not our Grandparents world anymore.. and things have evolved to different levels.