LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'd have to agree. Age difference seems to be more of an issue on this forum than it is at the consulates. After all, each party's age is revealed early on in the process, as opposed to other red flags, such as communication difficulties, amount of face time, involvement with beneficiary's family members in the US, or documentation of relationship.

Per capita, MENA age gap couples don't have a more difficult time getting a visa than anyone else capable of placating any other "red flag" concerns that non-age couples may have. It seems a shame that we spend so much more time on this issue in contrast to the problems it causes than we do to issues that truly are critical across the board.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Someone tell us again how I'm the one that stirs up sh!t . . .

[Badrs Love 0]

Oh yes, I'm full aware of Heather's death. You want to stir up things; I even have her autopsy and her official death certificate, stamped and all. And you wonder why VJ gets a bad rap; you all talk about me and Badr like I'm not even reading the responses. And yes Heather did die of natural causes. Would you like a break down of how she died? I can share that with you as well. I've had it translated from French to English. Yes my fiancé has moved on with his life. It was tragic of what happened to Heather. He lost his wife and step-daughter all within a few months. Heather died and his step-daughter got sent back to the states since he wasn't legally on her birth certificate. She was over in Morocco because they got denied and it was suggested that she go there and prove to them that their marriage was not a fraud. Anything else you would like to know since you all are so fond of stirring up things?

PS. And yes I am from the other board.

[Badrs Love 0]

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

now THAT is a red flag!!!

To say the least! What are some people thinking?!

It would only be a red flag if he was guilty of anything. Both the Moroccan government and ours have done their investigations and found nothing.

[chaishai 1]

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

now THAT is a red flag!!!

To say the least! What are some people thinking?!

It would only be a red flag if he was guilty of anything. Both the Moroccan government and ours have done their investigations and found nothing.

I think they meant red flag for your immigration case, not a red flag for a criminal case.

If someone gets denied, the USC dies and then he tries to marry another USC shortly thereafter, that would probably be a red flag for immigration. I know it would be for me if I were working on the case!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

There are 2 reasons why it is relevant for age difference to be discussed on this forum.

#1 Compared to other regional forums, ME/NA has a high percentage of couples with woman older/man younger -- this affects a lot of our members here

#2 Most importantly (as it affects the visa process, which is why we're all here !) -- a significant number of our members with this type of age gap have reported being questioned intensively about the subject by the COs at the interviews -- and sometimes in a very confrontational manner. This seems to happen especially in Morocco (and not always, but it is not uncommon.) Some of the other consulates do not seem to focus on the issue, or may only touch on the subject lightly.

Age gap -- or any other single red flag -- is usually not enough to get a case shipped back to USCIS. The consulates look at the whole picture. If they find one red flag, of course they will look for others -- they are trying to establish the overall pattern. But even several red flags is not necessarily a lost cause -- we have seen many cases with multi-flags come through the process successfully.

BUT as I've said before, forewarned is forearmed. I recommend again for anyone facing this issue -- or any red flag -- to look at how our member Nervously Waiting addressed a significant age gap (27 years) by taking action to address the issue all the way through the process.

The key is -- how you present your overall case, red flags and all. Does your relationship seem to begin and progress in a reasonable way; does it seem you gave your red flags considerable thought before marrying; do you seem to have "normal" couple contact and interaction; how comfortable does your SO seem to be during the interview, especially when they ask those embarrassing questions -- these are all things the CO will be trying to determine, and sometimes the clues they look for may be very subtle....

Where oh where is MBP ? She is very good at explaining this.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

Someone tell us again how I'm the one that stirs up sh!t . . .

you posted in this thread. therefore you are guilty

i'm frequently amazed at how some can't see the forest for the trees.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

now THAT is a red flag!!!

To say the least! What are some people thinking?!

It would only be a red flag if he was guilty of anything. Both the Moroccan government and ours have done their investigations and found nothing.

I think they meant red flag for your immigration case, not a red flag for a criminal case.

If someone gets denied, the USC dies and then he tries to marry another USC shortly thereafter, that would probably be a red flag for immigration. I know it would be for me if I were working on the case!

I agree this is a huge red flag -- the CO will definitely have some questions about that.

[doodlebug 3]

Someone tell us again how I'm the one that stirs up sh!t . . .

you posted in this thread. therefore you are guilty

i'm frequently amazed at how some can't see the forest for the trees.

Normally I would agree but putting things in perspective is always nice too.

If *I*, for example, moved to Egypt because our visa were denied, then suddenly became so ill that I actually died, and shortly thereafter my husband found another US woman and became married/engaged and came on visa journey I would only *hope* that you all wouldn't just sweep me under the rug and embrace the new visa applicants without questioning the events at hand. And if you DID......I think there'd be some serious haunted houses around here!

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

Someone tell us again how I'm the one that stirs up sh!t . . .

you posted in this thread. therefore you are guilty

i'm frequently amazed at how some can't see the forest for the trees.

Normally I would agree but putting things in perspective is always nice too.

If *I*, for example, moved to Egypt because our visa were denied, then suddenly became so ill that I actually died, and shortly thereafter my husband found another US woman and became married/engaged and came on visa journey I would only *hope* that you all wouldn't just sweep me under the rug and embrace the new visa applicants without questioning the events at hand. And if you DID......I think there'd be some serious haunted houses around here!

awww doodle we'd not sweep you under the rug. you'd be remembered fondly

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Oh I meant to add that USCIS' job is to verify that the petitioner is *eligible* to file for the beneficiary -- as in yes you meet the requirements. It is true that we have to submit age information to USCIS early in the process, but USCIS does not verify the relationship -- that is the consulate's job. Simply because USCIS approved your petition does not mean the consulate has to refrain from asking hard questions about your age gap.

But letters you submit to USCIS early in the process -- letters from you addressing your relationship and any red flag issues, and letters from family, your congressional reps, etc. -- these will stay with the file, and can help put persuasive evidence in front of the CO well before your interview.

When it comes to issues that we KNOW are often questioned in the interviews, I think it's much more advisable to confront them early in the process with pre-emptive action, rather than ignore them and then risk having to deal with a returned case.

Also, I think that much of the general strategic advice here about handling an age-gap issue could be applied to many other "red flags" -- such as addressing religious differences, or very short courtships, or marriage very soon after first meeting, etc. etc.

[allousa 1]

Oh I meant to add that USCIS' job is to verify that the petitioner is *eligible* to file for the beneficiary -- as in yes you meet the requirements. It is true that we have to submit age information to USCIS early in the process, but USCIS does not verify the relationship -- that is the consulate's job. Simply because USCIS approved your petition does not mean the consulate has to refrain from asking hard questions about your age gap.

But letters you submit to USCIS early in the process -- letters from you addressing your relationship and any red flag issues, and letters from family, your congressional reps, etc. -- these will stay with the file, and can help put persuasive evidence in front of the CO well before your interview.

When it comes to issues that we KNOW are often questioned in the interviews, I think it's much more advisable to confront them early in the process with pre-emptive action, rather than ignore them and then risk having to deal with a returned case.

Also, I think that much of the general strategic advice here about handling an age-gap issue could be applied to many other "red flags" -- such as addressing religious differences, or very short courtships, or marriage very soon after first meeting, etc. etc.

I think you are right on with this remark. On Hicham's first interview when the blonde CO was interviewing him and was so nasty, Hicham said he felt sure she hadn't even looked at his file thoroughly. I mentioned before that we had presented really strong evidence of our marriage and relationship prior to him even getting stuck in Morocco. It was that second interview where the blonde lady was actually nice to Hicham and even commented on how cute our son was. He said he could tell that she knew more about our case and obviously had looked it over. She even called him the next day to tell him she had forgotten to get him fingerprinted and that if he could come in the next day, she would make sure it didn't hold up his file.

And I found this very odd that Casa didn't get his fingerprints until after the AP process. Shouldn't that have been done prior to the security checks?

[sarah and hicham 3]

I'm not talking about red flags as if he had something to do with her death. That never crossed my mind.

[JODO 2]

I even have her autopsy and her official death certificate, stamped and all.

Wow, that's macabre.

Sorry Mags, but it is.

[mybackpages 0]

The key is -- how you present your overall case, red flags and all. Does your relationship seem to begin and progress in a reasonable way; does it seem you gave your red flags considerable thought before marrying; do you seem to have "normal" couple contact and interaction; how comfortable does your SO seem to be during the interview, especially when they ask those embarrassing questions -- these are all things the CO will be trying to determine, and sometimes the clues they look for may be very subtle....

Where oh where is MBP ? She is very good at explaining this.

I think you state it quite well. We say it over and over again, but there are alway snew people so it merits repeating.

The CO knows nothing about your relationship than the papers that are infront of them during the interview. The interview is essential and though it is quick, COs are trained (not always competant or correct) to gather a great of of info in a few minutes.

The COs like everyone else in Morocco know that there are a large number of people who would like to get out of Morocco for many reasons. Internet technology has added a new dimension to this situation.

I think people are overplaying the significance of the age gap. It should not be dismissed, but it is not the be all and end all of a petition and application for the visa. Lots of couples are approved with age differences. An age difference is not enough to deny a visa.

Age may end up on a NOID directly or indirectly as a cause for denial. But there is a very big difference between saying

1) the difference in age between this couple is evidence of fraud

and

2) Evidence of fraud was documented through chararistics of the couple such as a large age gap.

The first would be illegal, and though hard to prove and get any kind of relief from it would be difficult, it would be highly unlikely the consulate would break their own quidelines in such a flagrant manner.

The second may appear at first reading that age was the reason for denial, but there are facts not apparent. What did the fiance say during the interview? What other evidence appears in the file or came out of the interview that failed to clear the burden of proof needed reagaridn the issue of age?

I think what hapens in this process is that we all go into it without understanding it from the start. We learn it the hard way- and often too late to correct any mistakes in the petition. It is a complicated and subtle process. A few misplaced words (spoken or written) and your petition could fall apart.

The goal here is to clear the hurdle. The Consulate places the burden of proof on the one wanting the visa. If there is any doubt, the CO has the power to question the validity of the petition. They have a great deal of pwoer, but they do not operate in a vaccum. You have to understand the process and the context you are dealing with esp when you have red flags and are going through a difficult consulate.