LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[morocco4ever 63]

There was a couple denied about a year ago that were both Muslims. There wasn't an age difference either. I can't for the life of me remember her name now, but they did break up as well. They hadn't been together very long, but then again many couples here have the same issue and are approved.

[doodlebug 3]

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

now THAT is a red flag!!!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There was a couple denied about a year ago that were both Muslims. There wasn't an age difference either. I can't for the life of me remember her name now, but they did break up as well. They hadn't been together very long, but then again many couples here have the same issue and are approved.

Abbas and his wife are both Muslim, but they were also denied this year.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

now THAT is a red flag!!!

ok... i am so lost.... but if she died of natural causes and he wants tto remarry... whats the big deal? Am I missing something?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Just a reminder that this is what Mark Ellis posted in his article as his opinion, from his experience about what consulates see as red flags. He also explained that it was not an exhaustive list.

He says:

What are some typical red flags that can cause a Consular Officer to suspect the merits of a relationship?

On the petitioner’s side, here is a brief and, by no means, complete list of reasons I have seen used to justify the return of family-based IV petitions and K petitions to DHS.

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary’s country and they meet for the first time;

3. No common language;

4. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;

5. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;

6. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.

7. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary is often a red flag for consular officers.

8. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

9. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

10. Failure to disclose previous marriages;

11. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other beneficiaries.

I’ve only addressed the petitioner’s side of the relationship. There are other red flags that can afflict the beneficiary. But the point to remember is that consulates are not supposed to deny family-IV applications for reasons that were generally available to DHS at the time of approval, so tell DHS in advance of any potential red flags when you file the petition. That doesn’t guarantee consular officers won’t find other reasons unknown to DHS, but at least you will have served your client well by disarming the obvious landmines in his or her path. And you will make the consular officers work by forcing them to examine each and every fact asserted in the petition to see if DHS had knowledge of the information used to justify the recommendation for revocation.

We are free to add based on our collective experience, political and social conditions and the like. All are possible factors, considering the variables involved. This is better than limiting ourselves to a single attorney's list - an abbreviation, which is, in reality, a suggestion of things to prepare for.

This is a good list of issues that will likely be considered at LEAST serious "red flags" at all consulates around the world. BTW #3, #10 and #11 are actual cause to deny.

[Imua 0]

About different religion as a red flag issue:

I posted about this topic in the S. Asia forum, specifically about Hindus marrying non-S. Asians(who are sometimes assumed to be non-Hindus). When I went to the embassy in Kathmandu for the Letter of No Contest(the affidavit needed for a USC to marry abroad, which is apparently not being given in Cairo anymore) the CO asked me how G and I met and I mentioned that we went to the Mandir together - she asked 'oh, are you Hindu?' and seemed very pleased when I answered yes. I was also wearing salwar kameez, bindi, etc since at that time we were engaged. I am hoping the same CO will be there for G's interview and will remember us. I am just wondering what her reaction would have been if I had not said I was Hindu - interesting that in MENA religion seems to be a red flag issue and I am wondering if it is the same in all areas where people tend to be very devout(like S. Asia).

[polarbear 0]

First of all, Sparrow...calmmmmmmm...breath....your man is Coptic...if he is real into his faith, he doesn't believe in Divorce. Most good muslim men wont treat a wife in a bad way. IF MENA marriage divorce rate is higher...its because of the parties failure to truely understand and adapt to the cultural differences. WE can not take the information from the break ups here on VJ alone. This is a SUPPORT forum....support is only for those that NEED support and those that want to give support. Its not really accurate to account for breakups here. We dont have enough MENA members to give us accurate data.

I know. If he had any idea the thought even crossed my mind a fraction of once it would break his heart. I'm just really stressed about a lot of stuff lately and the guy he wanted to be his best man (who was like his best friend when he was here 6 years ago) didn't even know who I was and was really rude to me so it just really unnerved me a bit. And half the people who are helping me with the wedding are like "ARE YOU SURE IT'S NOT FOR A GREEN CARD?!?!! YOU KNOW ALL THOSE ARABS BEAT THEIR WIVES" give me a ********* break already!

--Bridezilla

Ugg.... Hate that.... Got the GreenCard question from an Egyptian woman at the Masjid today

And in relation to the age conversation - I've had alot of people questioning my relationship with my fiance because of the 7 year age difference, but he is the older one, not me!! They seem to feel that I have been duped by the older, wiser man who is just looking for a young, easily manipulated, bride (25 & 32)

In regards to financial - Yes, I make more money than him. But no, I did not when we first met and he only realized how much more I make when I sent him the affidavit of support. He actually helped support me financially for awhile there when we were living in France.

I don't know how many red flags we really have, but I will let you all know when we get to the AP part of the process... Still waiting on that **** interview!

(I like that smiley)

[peezey 0]

Not the same religon. I know that officials in Morocco, for example, are not keen on mixed marriages because, however moderate the country is, there is a growing belief that the west is a corrupting influence on Muslims. I'm also seeing that belief transferring over to many in the populace.

Not the same ethnicity and/or culture. Consulates do consider the compatibility of couples in thise terms and look for signs of westernization in the applicant.

Were the populace of Morocco in the business of granting visas, your first statement might be relevant, but here it only serves dramatic purpose. In fact I don't think for these small number of marriages/engagements thru Morocco, I don't see anyone giving two craps. Clearly the families don't mind, how many hundreds of engagement/wedding/henna party pics have we all seen in the last few years?

As for your second point, obviously most of the visas we are discussing in this forum are between bi-national couples, so this again is totally irrelevant other than to potentially compound with other more glaring issues such as religion (clearly has been an issue with couples), language (often has been an issue with couples), and age differences (also has been noted on NOID/r).

Edited October 18, 2007 by peezey

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Not the same religon. I know that officials in Morocco, for example, are not keen on mixed marriages because, however moderate the country is, there is a growing belief that the west is a corrupting influence on Muslims. I'm also seeing that belief transferring over to many in the populace.

Not the same ethnicity and/or culture. Consulates do consider the compatibility of couples in thise terms and look for signs of westernization in the applicant.

Were the populace of Morocco in the business of granting visas, your first statement might be relevant, but here it only serves dramatic purpose. In fact I don't think for these small number of marriages/engagements thru Morocco, I don't see anyone giving two craps. Clearly the families don't mind, how many hundreds of engagement/wedding/henna party pics have we all seen in the last few years?

As for your second point, obviously most of the visas we are discussing in this forum are between bi-national couples, so this again is totally irrelevant other than to potentially compound with other more glaring issues such as religion (clearly has been an issue with couples), language (often has been an issue with couples), and age differences (also has been noted on NOID/r).

We will have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't bring it up if it wasn't relevent.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh, I'm in a similar position. Badr and I haven't started the visa process yet. But my family has tried everything to get me to cut off contact with him. They tried scare tactics, they've tired taking my daughter away from me and they even tried contacting my ex-husband to have him take my daughter away. I am an adult and I make the decisions now for my daughter and I. I choose to be with a man that loves me completely and would give his life for me. He's much more of a man than the men I've met in the US. Sorry, hope I didn't offend any men. But you have to follow your heart sometimes and block out the negativity. Hopefully our families will come around when they see how happy our SO's make us.

PS. My parents told my sister to marry her Jordanian boyfriend when they found out that his student visa was expiring. So they got married and he got his Master's. So my family are also hypocrites. They don't see anything wrong with telling her to marry a man but when I find one on my own, it's just not right. Go figure.

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

..................... ???

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh, I'm in a similar position. Badr and I haven't started the visa process yet. But my family has tried everything to get me to cut off contact with him. They tried scare tactics, they've tired taking my daughter away from me and they even tried contacting my ex-husband to have him take my daughter away. I am an adult and I make the decisions now for my daughter and I. I choose to be with a man that loves me completely and would give his life for me. He's much more of a man than the men I've met in the US. Sorry, hope I didn't offend any men. But you have to follow your heart sometimes and block out the negativity. Hopefully our families will come around when they see how happy our SO's make us.

PS. My parents told my sister to marry her Jordanian boyfriend when they found out that his student visa was expiring. So they got married and he got his Master's. So my family are also hypocrites. They don't see anything wrong with telling her to marry a man but when I find one on my own, it's just not right. Go figure.

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

..................... ???

Maybe some of you remember about a year ago or so, an American girl died in Morocco. She got sick and died there. I can't remember if she was married or not but she was there for Badrs, of "Badrs love". I can't quite remember if she was living there with him or just visiting but that's definitely him in their avatar. He already has a new American girlfriend. Yikes!

[sarah and hicham 3]

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

now THAT is a red flag!!!

To say the least! What are some people thinking?!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Oh, I'm in a similar position. Badr and I haven't started the visa process yet. But my family has tried everything to get me to cut off contact with him. They tried scare tactics, they've tired taking my daughter away from me and they even tried contacting my ex-husband to have him take my daughter away. I am an adult and I make the decisions now for my daughter and I. I choose to be with a man that loves me completely and would give his life for me. He's much more of a man than the men I've met in the US. Sorry, hope I didn't offend any men. But you have to follow your heart sometimes and block out the negativity. Hopefully our families will come around when they see how happy our SO's make us.

PS. My parents told my sister to marry her Jordanian boyfriend when they found out that his student visa was expiring. So they got married and he got his Master's. So my family are also hypocrites. They don't see anything wrong with telling her to marry a man but when I find one on my own, it's just not right. Go figure.

That girl that died in Morocco last year- was that your now fiance's fiancee or wife?

..................... ???

Maybe some of you remember about a year ago or so, an American girl died in Morocco. She got sick and died there. I can't remember if she was married or not but she was there for Badrs, of "Badrs love". I can't quite remember if she was living there with him or just visiting but that's definitely him in their avatar. He already has a new American girlfriend. Yikes!

I sure hope she found out before you just outed him.. How shitty would that be for her if he never told her

OH MY GOD

[sarah and hicham 3]

I think she knows.

[morocco4ever 63]

Not the same religon. I know that officials in Morocco, for example, are not keen on mixed marriages because, however moderate the country is, there is a growing belief that the west is a corrupting influence on Muslims. I'm also seeing that belief transferring over to many in the populace.

Not the same ethnicity and/or culture. Consulates do consider the compatibility of couples in thise terms and look for signs of westernization in the applicant.

Were the populace of Morocco in the business of granting visas, your first statement might be relevant, but here it only serves dramatic purpose. In fact I don't think for these small number of marriages/engagements thru Morocco, I don't see anyone giving two craps. Clearly the families don't mind, how many hundreds of engagement/wedding/henna party pics have we all seen in the last few years?

As for your second point, obviously most of the visas we are discussing in this forum are between bi-national couples, so this again is totally irrelevant other than to potentially compound with other more glaring issues such as religion (clearly has been an issue with couples), language (often has been an issue with couples), and age differences (also has been noted on NOID/r).

I have only heard of one case where the age difference was brought up on the NOIR. Do you know of more than one? Ours certainly never mentioned it although I am positive that this is the main factor they used to search for anything to deny it on. The silly things on our NOIR was the same situations with the majority of visa applications.