LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[Sofiyya 1,687]

For me, it's like "Groundhog Day"

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

For me, it's like "Groundhog Day"

very true

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

For me, it's like "Groundhog Day"

very true

timelines drifting farther and farther away

[amrssnowangel 0]

For me our red flags seem to be an 18 year age gap (im older), I had 3 past (BAD) marriages (wised up at looking for those bad ones), and my last divorce was just last August. 10 months before we filed. HOwever, I think we combat those with a 4 year history, 4 visits with a 5th planned, DAILY chats, skype calls, voice, emails, regular mail, phone calls....(ok regular mail and emial not daily..rest is). My parents talk to him, I talk to his. I will be there for the interview..and planning to ask his mother to accompany us. ( emailed embassy for approval..will take email from them with me). I"ve already contacted my congressmen and senators of my state for a letter "expressing interest" in my case and asking for an update when its approved.

Age difference can be a touchy subject. Not all understand it..not all can do it. Its a different way of life than the "norm". (Who says what "normal" is anyways??) But I can be respectful of anyones feelings towards it. I just tend to be younger looking, acting and sound younger to. My SO and I meet in the middle of our age difference. Age gaps aren't understood by all..nor do I expect all to understand, approve or meet it with enthusiasm. Just my thoughts

[Together for ever 0]

For me our red flags seem to be an 18 year age gap (im older), I had 3 past (BAD) marriages (wised up at looking for those bad ones), and my last divorce was just last August. 10 months before we filed. HOwever, I think we combat those with a 4 year history, 4 visits with a 5th planned, DAILY chats, skype calls, voice, emails, regular mail, phone calls....(ok regular mail and emial not daily..rest is). My parents talk to him, I talk to his. I will be there for the interview..and planning to ask his mother to accompany us. ( emailed embassy for approval..will take email from them with me). I"ve already contacted my congressmen and senators of my state for a letter "expressing interest" in my case and asking for an update when its approved.

Age difference can be a touchy subject. Not all understand it..not all can do it. Its a different way of life than the "norm". (Who says what "normal" is anyways??) But I can be respectful of anyones feelings towards it. I just tend to be younger looking, acting and sound younger to. My SO and I meet in the middle of our age difference. Age gaps aren't understood by all..nor do I expect all to understand, approve or meet it with enthusiasm. Just my thoughts

sorry for what i will say but you said you have divorce in August 06 as i understand but how u meet your fiance 3 years before ( this mean u met him while u were nmarried ) is it normal?????????????????????

age difference between male and female may be not problem if theman and women know why they are married ( i mean each one of them know his rule in this marriage but in my thought which may be wrong but should respected it is fraud marriage from young man to older women because any amn always want to be the master of his wife and want to enjoy with his young wife even if he marry older women for while believe me after every rhing become stable he will seek for his dream of younger female than him any one want to be normal even if he start his life abnormal for any cause so any omen marry a younger man should think many times...................................

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

For me our red flags seem to be an 18 year age gap (im older), I had 3 past (BAD) marriages (wised up at looking for those bad ones), and my last divorce was just last August. 10 months before we filed. HOwever, I think we combat those with a 4 year history, 4 visits with a 5th planned, DAILY chats, skype calls, voice, emails, regular mail, phone calls....(ok regular mail and emial not daily..rest is). My parents talk to him, I talk to his. I will be there for the interview..and planning to ask his mother to accompany us. ( emailed embassy for approval..will take email from them with me). I"ve already contacted my congressmen and senators of my state for a letter "expressing interest" in my case and asking for an update when its approved.

Age difference can be a touchy subject. Not all understand it..not all can do it. Its a different way of life than the "norm". (Who says what "normal" is anyways??) But I can be respectful of anyones feelings towards it. I just tend to be younger looking, acting and sound younger to. My SO and I meet in the middle of our age difference. Age gaps aren't understood by all..nor do I expect all to understand, approve or meet it with enthusiasm. Just my thoughts

sorry for what i will say but you said you have divorce in August 06 as i understand but how u meet your fiance 3 years before ( this mean u met him while u were nmarried ) is it normal?????????????????????

age difference between male and female may be not problem if theman and women know why they are married ( i mean each one of them know his rule in this marriage but in my thought which may be wrong but should respected it is fraud marriage from young man to older women because any amn always want to be the master of his wife and want to enjoy with his young wife even if he marry older women for while believe me after every rhing become stable he will seek for his dream of younger female than him any one want to be normal even if he start his life abnormal for any cause so any omen marry a younger man should think many times...................................

Can I ask what country you are from? I think that what you are saying rings very true but I have seen men that are younger very in love with their wives and stay with them and have kids... Are you in the immigration process? Did you marry someone to get papers in the US. You have no timeline so I am very curious.I have also seen men very in love with their wives get pressured by people with your mindset leave their wives only to marry a younger woman bring her over here and the younger woman either leaves him when she gets her papers or he truly misses his first wife. By then its too late..

Did you see my signature ? My great grandmother was 14 years older than my great granfather and this was 96 years ago and not done in my society either. People sometimes need to stay out of other people s lives dont you think?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I still wonder why it is so common in this forum for the woman to be much older than the man in many of the relationships.

I still don't see anything wrong with Sarah's question here. This thread is about red flags, and age gaps are (whether one likes it or not) definitely considered at least potential red flags to many MENA consulates.

Since there was nothing out-of-line said here, and the question is actually right in line with the topic, I really don't think dragging baggage from previous threads (which turned into ridiculous flame wars) is helpful or productive in this thread. (For newer members, the incident that sparked this whole feud is a comment Sarah made -- what... like a YEAR ago ???!! about it being "gross and abnormal" for a man, for instance, to marry a woman old enough to be his mother. This comment was then dredged up over and over to bicker about in an endless series of other threads. I believe GEG even quoted the phrase in her siggy line -- or was it her custom member title ? -- until it kicked up enough drama to be finally removed by the admin.) Ladies please. Let us please move on.

I'm sure I can do a lot better job than other people of explaining myself, and I have asked that pthers not contiue to explain my motivations to others when I can do so myself. My comments have NOTHING to do with the "gross and abnormal" incident and lots more to do with things that have been said since then. It's not me who's always bringing that up, it's those who are always defending Sarah.

And get things straight of you feel the need to speak for me; no admin removed anything from my signitures. It's Charles that has it on his that the admin removed his tag, not me. BTW, "crass crasserkins" is from one of my posts. I notice such things, but say nothing.

Several statements have been made about me as to why I objected to Sarah's "curiousity", so I suppose I should once again comment for myself. I said before, I and others do not believe that Sarah is sincere about wanting to learn about why there are so many couples composed of older women and younger men. She has made many comments that indicate clearly that she is offended by such couples and has even declared that their age difference is the reason why any such couple has been denied. She has shown very little empathy for them and has engaged often in titilation in order to restart the subject so she can enjoy the drama she creates. This has been going on for over a year. Perhaps it is her youth that makes her so insensitive, but I doubt seriously that she applies any real depth to bring about an understanding of it on her part. That is what I have seen repeatedly in her comments.

I don't have any issues with my own relationship and am not offended by a rational and realistic discussion of older women, younger men. I will, however, speak out when I believe that the subject is once again being raised for the entertainment of one person here who has gained a reputation for doing just such a thing.

That was a long time ago and I have since apologized and was able to move on. I hope you can too. It's too bad that I can't even show curiosity about something without you jumping on me for something that happened over a year ago. You don't know my intentions, and you don't know me. I can tell you however that my intentions are not malicious in any way and once again I have apologized and moved on. I may not understand certain relationships but I have no right to judge them and am trying to understand and learn from this forum.

I'll take that under advisment, but I spent about 2 months silently reading and saw plenty of folks take issue with tactless things you said to them. The usual mamas came to your defense and you continue to do much the same thing. Sorry of I'm not so easily swayed, but I believe I have good reason not to be.

Look GEG. You have dragged out this childish dispute for more than a year now. You've disrupted countless threads to beat the same dead horse. And you DID put the statement in your siggy, to make sure to keep it on the front burner (I think that's when the other "quotes in siggies" started.) And Sarah has already apologized to you for the "gross and abnormal" comment. Her question in this thread was not out of line; *you* were.

You seem really upset that anyone might "speculate" over your behavior and/or intentions. I guess it hasn't occurred to you that you do a whole lot of speculating yourself. "Glass houses".....

Anyway this whole effort to divide the board into two camps is getting really old. If you want to argue about past posts, then go back and pull up those threads and argue it there. Let's keep this thread on topic, because it was going quite well and it could be very helpful to others -- LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS !!!!!

[amrssnowangel 0]

For me our red flags seem to be an 18 year age gap (im older), I had 3 past (BAD) marriages (wised up at looking for those bad ones), and my last divorce was just last August. 10 months before we filed. HOwever, I think we combat those with a 4 year history, 4 visits with a 5th planned, DAILY chats, skype calls, voice, emails, regular mail, phone calls....(ok regular mail and emial not daily..rest is). My parents talk to him, I talk to his. I will be there for the interview..and planning to ask his mother to accompany us. ( emailed embassy for approval..will take email from them with me). I"ve already contacted my congressmen and senators of my state for a letter "expressing interest" in my case and asking for an update when its approved.

Age difference can be a touchy subject. Not all understand it..not all can do it. Its a different way of life than the "norm". (Who says what "normal" is anyways??) But I can be respectful of anyones feelings towards it. I just tend to be younger looking, acting and sound younger to. My SO and I meet in the middle of our age difference. Age gaps aren't understood by all..nor do I expect all to understand, approve or meet it with enthusiasm. Just my thoughts

sorry for what i will say but you said you have divorce in August 06 as i understand but how u meet your fiance 3 years before ( this mean u met him while u were nmarried ) is it normal?????????????????????

age difference between male and female may be not problem if theman and women know why they are married ( i mean each one of them know his rule in this marriage but in my thought which may be wrong but should respected it is fraud marriage from young man to older women because any amn always want to be the master of his wife and want to enjoy with his young wife even if he marry older women for while believe me after every rhing become stable he will seek for his dream of younger female than him any one want to be normal even if he start his life abnormal for any cause so any omen marry a younger man should think many times...................................

Can I ask what country you are from? I think that what you are saying rings very true but I have seen men that are younger very in love with their wives and stay with them and have kids... Are you in the immigration process? Did you marry someone to get papers in the US. You have no timeline so I am very curious.I have also seen men very in love with their wives get pressured by people with your mindset leave their wives only to marry a younger woman bring her over here and the younger woman either leaves him when she gets her papers or he truly misses his first wife. By then its too late..

Did you see my signature ? My great grandmother was 14 years older than my great granfather and this was 96 years ago and not done in my society either. People sometimes need to stay out of other people s lives dont you think?

Well, I was seperated for those years. The situation was a strange one indeed. But I will say this. You NEVER know what you will get when you marry. You THINK you know, but until married...you really dont know. I thought my last husband was it...so sweet, kind, caring...only ONE problem, I found he like men to. So please dont judge me in the fact that I said I was married during that time. I was "legally" married. But that was IT. We were done when I met my now SO.

You are right..many younger men DO marry older to get something out of it. But I agree with the last post. Many love their wives dearly....I believe in my relationship with him. One thing for you to think about:

Dont we ALL marry to fill a NEED? Isnt that what love is about? I mean...If you NEED a man to be a nurturer, wouldn't u LOOK for that type of man? If you are accustomed to a certain "lifestyle" wouldnt you NORMALLY marry a man who can provide that? If you need a man of romance...you'd not marry a dead stone in the romance department. Its all about compatibility and what each one brings to the table. HOWEVER, that never excuses a man/woman for using someone JUST for visa, coming, breaking a heart and leaving. But we do marry to fill our NEEDS...i see nothing wrong in a man, who wants to make a better life...and seeks LOVE outside his country. HUGE difference than a man who seeks out older woman JSUT to get out of country but not for love first. And there ARE red flags with those men...right up front...not hard to see. I think most of us older women with younger men...have the sense to see those flags and in MOST cases avoid that pit. But a few of those con people are good...and we dont see it...but then....did I see my ex's tendancies??? NOOOOOOO not before marriage. Never. Not til I found gay porn, chats with transvestites, chats with couples for bi encounters. It was his deep dark secret. We enter marriage in good faith and trust. Some of us are lucky and do well finding the right one...some of us have to learn the hard way how to find the right one.

Now im rambling...Final word.....I prefer younger men...because Im NOT an OLDER woman...Im a Woman of character, style and experience.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Look GEG. You have dragged out this childish dispute for more than a year now. You've disrupted countless threads to beat the same dead horse. And you DID put the statement in your siggy, to make sure to keep it on the front burner (I think that's when the other "quotes in siggies" started.) And Sarah has already apologized to you for the "gross and abnormal" comment. Her question in this thread was not out of line; *you* were.

You seem really upset that anyone might "speculate" over your behavior and/or intentions. I guess it hasn't occurred to you that you do a whole lot of speculating yourself. "Glass houses".....

Anyway this whole effort to divide the board into two camps is getting really old. If you want to argue about past posts, then go back and pull up those threads and argue it there. Let's keep this thread on topic, because it was going quite well and it could be very helpful to others -- LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS !!!!!

You enjoy taking sides, WOM, and do plenty yourself to keep "childish disputes" and "dead horses" open and speculation alive, so you have your own glass house to deal with. I addressed Sarah and her tendency toward tactlessness (which is not old news), not you, but you continue to interject yourself into it, speaking for me, as if she needs you to fight her battles for her.

I have no obligation to be directed by you, but I'd be more inclined to think that you and her sycophants were serious about not continuing to pile on for your friends if you'd back away and leave this between us, thus, not making a divide so concrete and demonstrable. You don't see my friends piling on for me, commanding people to go away, shut up, or accept apologises; they know I can take care of myself just fine. Try defending someone else's free speech sometimes. You'd be more believable then.

[allousa 1]

dont count your own chickens just yet dont close it, everyone is fine, we all been around long enough to know....besides everyones teeth have already been knocked out guess now we are all just a bunch of snaggle tooth hags ha

AMEN SISTER!!!!!

[doodlebug 3]

For me our red flags seem to be an 18 year age gap (im older), I had 3 past (BAD) marriages (wised up at looking for those bad ones), and my last divorce was just last August. 10 months before we filed. HOwever, I think we combat those with a 4 year history, 4 visits with a 5th planned, DAILY chats, skype calls, voice, emails, regular mail, phone calls....(ok regular mail and emial not daily..rest is). My parents talk to him, I talk to his. I will be there for the interview..and planning to ask his mother to accompany us. ( emailed embassy for approval..will take email from them with me). I"ve already contacted my congressmen and senators of my state for a letter "expressing interest" in my case and asking for an update when its approved.

Age difference can be a touchy subject. Not all understand it..not all can do it. Its a different way of life than the "norm". (Who says what "normal" is anyways??) But I can be respectful of anyones feelings towards it. I just tend to be younger looking, acting and sound younger to. My SO and I meet in the middle of our age difference. Age gaps aren't understood by all..nor do I expect all to understand, approve or meet it with enthusiasm. Just my thoughts

sorry for what i will say but you said you have divorce in August 06 as i understand but how u meet your fiance 3 years before ( this mean u met him while u were nmarried ) is it normal?????????????????????

age difference between male and female may be not problem if theman and women know why they are married ( i mean each one of them know his rule in this marriage but in my thought which may be wrong but should respected it is fraud marriage from young man to older women because any amn always want to be the master of his wife and want to enjoy with his young wife even if he marry older women for while believe me after every rhing become stable he will seek for his dream of younger female than him any one want to be normal even if he start his life abnormal for any cause so any omen marry a younger man should think many times...................................

never mind.

Edited October 17, 2007 by doodlebug

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You enjoy taking sides, WOM, and do plenty yourself to keep "childish disputes" and "dead horses" open and speculation alive, so you have your own glass house to deal with. I addressed Sarah and her tendency toward tactlessness (which is not old news), not you, but you continue to interject yourself into it, speaking for me, as if she needs you to fight her battles for her.

I have no obligation to be directed by you, but I'd be more inclined to think that you and her sycophants were serious about not continuing to pile on for your friends if you'd back away and leave this between us, thus, not making a divide so concrete and demonstrable. You don't see my friends piling on for me, commanding people to go away, shut up, or accept apologises; they know I can take care of myself just fine. Try defending someone else's free speech sometimes. You'd be more believable then.

You are really caught up in a trip.

Back to topic......

Some good points being made here about all sorts of things that influence older women or younger men to choose age-gap relationships. Of course different people are all in different situations -- it's extremely complex. But as Jenn said, we're trying to apply this to MENA in particular... since at least some of the consulates consider it a red flag and reason to scrutinize the case closely.

In some ways, I think age-gap relationships have become kind of a stereotype for MENA. I do see some similar age-gap relationships in other regional forums -- not sure on exact stats -- but I don't think anyone regards them as "typical" of those forums.

So why has it become such a big deal in MENA ? Why have the MENA consulates in particular identified "older woman/younger man" relationships as a red flag ? Are there any stats about fraud cases ?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You enjoy taking sides, WOM, and do plenty yourself to keep "childish disputes" and "dead horses" open and speculation alive, so you have your own glass house to deal with. I addressed Sarah and her tendency toward tactlessness (which is not old news), not you, but you continue to interject yourself into it, speaking for me, as if she needs you to fight her battles for her.

I have no obligation to be directed by you, but I'd be more inclined to think that you and her sycophants were serious about not continuing to pile on for your friends if you'd back away and leave this between us, thus, not making a divide so concrete and demonstrable. You don't see my friends piling on for me, commanding people to go away, shut up, or accept apologises; they know I can take care of myself just fine. Try defending someone else's free speech sometimes. You'd be more believable then.

You are really caught up in a trip.

Back to topic......

Some good points being made here about all sorts of things that influence older women or younger men to choose age-gap relationships. Of course different people are all in different situations -- it's extremely complex. But as Jenn said, we're trying to apply this to MENA in particular... since at least some of the consulates consider it a red flag and reason to scrutinize the case closely.

In some ways, I think age-gap relationships have become kind of a stereotype for MENA. I do see some similar age-gap relationships in other regional forums -- not sure on exact stats -- but I don't think anyone regards them as "typical" of those forums.

So why has it become such a big deal in MENA ? Why have the MENA consulates in particular identified "older woman/younger man" relationships as a red flag ? Are there any stats about fraud cases ?

I think it depends on the consulate WOM. I have seen age gaps get denied out of Tunis, Egypt and Morocco especially but not too many out of Algeria because there are just not that many people going through that particular consulate. Morocco is extremely easy to vist and there are alot of Moroccans in the US . You are simply going to see alot of fraud coming out of Morocco because it is actually the easiest and closest mena country to visit. Its a 7 hour shot to NYC from Morocco. I think you will see less out of Egypt now because its not easy to get married there anymore ( you will see fewer I 130s) Algeria next to no I130s because getting married there takes 6 months. I got married in Tunis and am filing an I130 in Algeria because I do not want to go through the TUNIS consulate. I have a friend that did who married an Algerian and it took her 2 petitions and 15 months on the second one and she has a 15 year age gap. She finally got approved.With yahoo and the internet, moroccans are meeting Americans online and I am sure the number of petitions are astounding from there. I think that there are alot of happy american moroccan couples as moroccans seem to blend well with Americans. I cannot say the same for Moroccans who got here on visas and married americans to stay here. I have seen tons of marriage fraud in that department. When you meet someone on line , there is a chance to develop a relationship. When you are here and you have a 90 visa and you do not want to go home or you are an overstay from school or the disney program, you are going to do some shakey stuff to stay here.

You just do not see that many illegals in the US like before. I mean 7 years ago , they crowded coffee shops, worked on fake papers. Now the same illegals have to stay in big cities like LA and NYC because life in the smaller ones became impossible with EAD enforcemnet and they cannot get drivers licenses, etc.

I think Morocco will remain a very high fraud consulate for MENA due to the fact that its just so damn easy to get there from the US. It takes 800 dollars to get there. Algeria takes almost 2000, a 2 month visa wait and 3 to 4 planes and its not having the best situation with security. You are not going to see that many American tourists there. Egypt and Morocco yes. Tunis maybe although they seem to gravitate much more towards Europe ( really popular holiday vacation spot for norhtern europeans. I stayed at this hotel in August in Tunis and all I heard was German. I did not see an American the entire time either in May or August. Algeria, not even one except leaving I met an oil contractor. I am sure Americans are all over Morocco but I havent been there ( and have no reason to go ever)Its really sad for the real couples because of the onslaught of fake petitions..... People that set american friends and co workers up with relatives to get here..etc. You will notice they seem to want to know if you have alot of family stateside

Oh well,,,just my opinion

[sara535 15]

regarding the fraud issue:

judging by the number of recent breakups around here it sure starts to seem like there is something to it....

( not sure if all these recent ones have age differences...)

Edited October 17, 2007 by sara535

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

regarding the fraud issue:

judging by the number of recent breakups around here it sure starts to seem like there is something to it....

( not sure if all these recent ones have age differences...)

Actually most of the most recent breakups have been people exact in age and similar... one due to infidelity and the other they are the same age and he abused her.