LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Several statements have been made about me as to why I objected to Sarah's "curiousity", so I suppose I should once again comment for myself. I said before, I and others do not believe that Sarah is sincere about wanting to learn about why there are so many couples composed of older women and younger men. She has made many comments that indicate clearly that she is offended by such couples and has even declared that their age difference is the reason why any such couple has been denied. She has shown very little empathy for them and has engaged often in titilation in order to restart the subject so she can enjoy the drama she creates. This has been going on for over a year. Perhaps it is her youth that makes her so insensitive, but I doubt seriously that she applies any real depth to bring about an understanding of it on her part. That is what I have seen repeatedly in her comments.

I don't have any issues with my own relationship and am not offended by a rational and realistic discussion of older women, younger men. I will, however, speak out when I believe that the subject is once again being raised for the entertainment of one person here who has gained a reputation for doing just such a thing.

I actually agree with you...I want you to read what I wrote.. I personally know girls the same age as their MENA husbands tossed aside when they get their papers.. and the girls were PRETTY and their age. Age has a bearing on some things but not everything..... and its really up to each person. I have spent years around North Africans and I have seen all kinds of situations.... some where you would swear up and down the guy will ditch her and he stays and then some near age matches where the guy ditches her and married a moroccan.... Until the guy has adjusted status and has his citizenship, there is no way to tell. When he gets the citizenship is the real kicker cause until then he cannot bring someone from back home over... so rest assured, someone acting self rightous might be the girl crying in her dinner in 3 years. I always tell my friends, when he gets his citizenship NOT GREENCARD is the determining factor. I have seen guys hang on in loveless marraiges waiting for that passport because a greencard will not get the girl from back home over here.. you gotta have a passport... I would not pay very much attention to much of what anyone says because the reality is the love you have between the couple... most women played for papers know its going on.. they just do not want to face it....

very good thoughts, makes more sense a younger guy would go to the closer to their age young pretty girl to get the papers to begin with after all why would they want to pick someone so much older that it decreases their chances of getting the papers (could it be because they care?) youth is not a excuse and apologies kinda cancel themselves out when it continues year after year

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I still wonder why it is so common in this forum for the woman to be much older than the man in many of the relationships.

I still don't see anything wrong with Sarah's question here. This thread is about red flags, and age gaps are (whether one likes it or not) definitely considered at least potential red flags to many MENA consulates.

Since there was nothing out-of-line said here, and the question is actually right in line with the topic, I really don't think dragging baggage from previous threads (which turned into ridiculous flame wars) is helpful or productive in this thread. (For newer members, the incident that sparked this whole feud is a comment Sarah made -- what... like a YEAR ago ???!! about it being "gross and abnormal" for a man, for instance, to marry a woman old enough to be his mother. This comment was then dredged up over and over to bicker about in an endless series of other threads. I believe GEG even quoted the phrase in her siggy line -- or was it her custom member title ? -- until it kicked up enough drama to be finally removed by the admin.) Ladies please. Let us please move on.

So anyway, I think it's an interesting question. That doesn't mean I think the answer is so simple. I think there are a number of factors from each partner's perspective that influence their choices.

But I also wonder about the circumstances that make these relationships so much more common in MENA than in many other countries. I especially wonder what trends/stats have made the MENA consulates identify age gap as a common denominator in fraud cases. Which other consulates (outside MENA) see a particularly high incidence of woman older/man younger couples ?

[Jenn! 918]

I still wonder why it is so common in this forum for the woman to be much older than the man in many of the relationships.

I still don't see anything wrong with Sarah's question here. This thread is about red flags, and age gaps are (whether one likes it or not) definitely considered at least potential red flags to many MENA consulates.

Since there was nothing out-of-line said here, and the question is actually right in line with the topic, I really don't think dragging baggage from previous threads (which turned into ridiculous flame wars) is helpful or productive in this thread. (For newer members, the incident that sparked this whole feud is a comment Sarah made -- what... like a YEAR ago ???!! about it being "gross and abnormal" for a man, for instance, to marry a woman old enough to be his mother. This comment was then dredged up over and over to bicker about in an endless series of other threads. I believe GEG even quoted the phrase in her siggy line -- or was it her custom member title ? -- until it kicked up enough drama to be finally removed by the admin.) Ladies please. Let us please move on.

So anyway, I think it's an interesting question. That doesn't mean I think the answer is so simple. I think there are a number of factors from each partner's perspective that influence their choices.

But I also wonder about the circumstances that make these relationships so much more common in MENA than in many other countries. I especially wonder what trends/stats have made the MENA consulates identify age gap as a common denominator in fraud cases. Which other consulates (outside MENA) see a particularly high incidence of woman older/man younger couples ?

There have been no "other" suggestions put forth as to why wide age gap relationships between MENA men and Western women seems to be so common. If the percentage of relationships between Western women and MENA men that have large age gaps is greater than the percentage of similar relationships between MENA men and MENA women, then there must be some explanation for it. In other words, if it's not a "cultural thing" in a given country for younger men to marry older women, then either it's plain coincidence (not likely) that so many younger MENA men marry older Western women, or there's some concrete reason.The only one that has any plausibilty for me is that there must be some degree of "taking advantage" going on. This does not necessarily mean fraud. Neither am I saying that all relationships with large age gaps are not genuine. What I've said here assumes nothing negative about such relationships. I would have a similar answer for anyone who asked, "Why is it so much more common for MENA men to marry Western women who are of a "higher class" than the women that they would be able to marry within their own country?"

Edited October 16, 2007 by Jenn!

[ya falaha! 0]

This is my husband's theory as to why so many MENA men marry older women from the states: Older women generally have more patience and time on their hands to sit in front of the computer and deal with a man with broken English than younger women.

Edited October 16, 2007 by moody

[Jenn! 918]

This is my husband's theory as to why so many MENA men marry older women from the states: Older women generally have more patience and time on their hands to sit in front of the computer and deal with a man with broken English than younger women.

LOL, that makes sense actually!

[ya falaha! 0]

I thought so, too.

Same theory goes for single moms. Lots of time at home in the evening and nothing to do after the kids go to bed. I fall in to that category.

This is my husband's theory as to why so many MENA men marry older women from the states: Older women generally have more patience and time on their hands to sit in front of the computer and deal with a man with broken English than younger women.

LOL, that makes sense actually!

Edited October 16, 2007 by moody

[brnidokiegurl 0]

older women also (usually) have more life experience both good and bad, know more what they want from life, and know to over look the superficial things that are often meaningless in life, their time is (maybe) more structured because they have learned to handle many things during a day often all at one time and they have learned to value the important things. as green said..to each their own...(yes alot of this does sound like the single mom also) doesnt it

[allousa 1]

I've been working on a precise formula to calculate one's chances at success through Casablanca. The inputs include ages of petitioner/beneficiary, current incomes of petitioner/beneficiary, number of visits, amount of time spent in person, length of relationship, method of meeting, number of children of petitioner/beneficiary, number of divorces of petitioner/beneficiary.

I'll get back to you all after I've finished my calculations.

Unfortunately I will not be able to accept your data/statistics until you have passed every single one of your actuary exams.

LOL. Ok, my formula will be coming in 2010 then. (hopefully!)

I would be interested to see how Hicham and I fare with your formula. We have only a 3 year age difference, are in our mid-thirties, no criminal records, married 2 years prior to having to deal with Casa, good jobs, supportive family members on BOTH sides AND a child together!!!! Yet, he was still in AP for over a year and accused of being a fraud on his first interview. The delays in our case have defied ALL logic!

[Jenn! 918]

older women also (usually) have more life experience both good and bad, know more what they want from life, and know to over look the superficial things that are often meaningless in life, their time is (maybe) more structured because they have learned to handle many things during a day often all at one time and they have learned to value the important things. as green said..to each their own...(yes alot of this does sound like the single mom also) doesnt it

But wouldn't older MENA women have the same qualities in terms of life experience?

I think Moh's really on to something with actually taking a look at who exactly is using the internet and how often. You can't meet someone online who doesn't go online!

I've been working on a precise formula to calculate one's chances at success through Casablanca. The inputs include ages of petitioner/beneficiary, current incomes of petitioner/beneficiary, number of visits, amount of time spent in person, length of relationship, method of meeting, number of children of petitioner/beneficiary, number of divorces of petitioner/beneficiary.

I'll get back to you all after I've finished my calculations.

Unfortunately I will not be able to accept your data/statistics until you have passed every single one of your actuary exams.

LOL. Ok, my formula will be coming in 2010 then. (hopefully!)

I would be interested to see how Hicham and I fare with your formula. We have only a 3 year age difference, are in our mid-thirties, no criminal records, married 2 years prior to having to deal with Casa, good jobs, supportive family members on BOTH sides AND a child together!!!! Yet, he was still in AP for over a year and accused of being a fraud on his first interview. The delays in our case have defied ALL logic!

I think it has everything to do with the fact that he's not Moroccan.

[allousa 1]

older women also (usually) have more life experience both good and bad, know more what they want from life, and know to over look the superficial things that are often meaningless in life, their time is (maybe) more structured because they have learned to handle many things during a day often all at one time and they have learned to value the important things. as green said..to each their own...(yes alot of this does sound like the single mom also) doesnt it

But wouldn't older MENA women have the same qualities in terms of life experience?

I think Moh's really on to something with actually taking a look at who exactly is using the internet and how often. You can't meet someone online who doesn't go online!

I've been working on a precise formula to calculate one's chances at success through Casablanca. The inputs include ages of petitioner/beneficiary, current incomes of petitioner/beneficiary, number of visits, amount of time spent in person, length of relationship, method of meeting, number of children of petitioner/beneficiary, number of divorces of petitioner/beneficiary.

I'll get back to you all after I've finished my calculations.

Unfortunately I will not be able to accept your data/statistics until you have passed every single one of your actuary exams.

LOL. Ok, my formula will be coming in 2010 then. (hopefully!)

I would be interested to see how Hicham and I fare with your formula. We have only a 3 year age difference, are in our mid-thirties, no criminal records, married 2 years prior to having to deal with Casa, good jobs, supportive family members on BOTH sides AND a child together!!!! Yet, he was still in AP for over a year and accused of being a fraud on his first interview. The delays in our case have defied ALL logic!

I think it has everything to do with the fact that he's not Moroccan.

I think you are absolutely correct. Hicham and I have both thought this many times.

When we began the whole process in the States, before he ever got stuck in Maroc, the local office couldn't figure out how to code his file because there was no code set up for "Palestinian". He's actually considered "stateless" but not a refugee. Even though he was born in Morocco, he has to have a Palestinian passport. So very freak'in complicated!!!!

Does your formula factor in variables of that nature????

[brnidokiegurl 0]

true but also look at the poll even here on vj how many met on the internet not everyone can afford to travel all over the world the internet has opened possibilities to learn and become(friends) (acquaintances) with people all over the world not all of them go on with the intention of hum today i think i will look for a husband/wife. I have talked to many in switzerland, australia, canada, egypt. The one in australia used to come to the U.S. once a year for a conference he would phone a few times when here, never met, he sent me t shirt from a ski trip he took, i sent him one from my work, friends, end of story. The internet is not all bad...it becomes what you make it

sure all older women can have the same qualities no matter where they live, each person chooses who they want to be with whereever they are from. Not directing to you Jenn directly just in example, im sure there were others in MENA that would have had the same qualities as you or anyone else married might find, why did you two pick each other, because you loved each other...people are just people, doesnt matter where you come from

[sarah and hicham 3]

Several statements have been made about me as to why I objected to Sarah's "curiousity", so I suppose I should once again comment for myself. I said before, I and others do not believe that Sarah is sincere about wanting to learn about why there are so many couples composed of older women and younger men. She has made many comments that indicate clearly that she is offended by such couples and has even declared that their age difference is the reason why any such couple has been denied. She has shown very little empathy for them and has engaged often in titilation in order to restart the subject so she can enjoy the drama she creates. This has been going on for over a year. Perhaps it is her youth that makes her so insensitive, but I doubt seriously that she applies any real depth to bring about an understanding of it on her part. That is what I have seen repeatedly in her comments.

I don't have any issues with my own relationship and am not offended by a rational and realistic discussion of older women, younger men. I will, however, speak out when I believe that the subject is once again being raised for the entertainment of one person here who has gained a reputation for doing just such a thing.

That was a long time ago and I have since apologized and was able to move on. I hope you can too. It's too bad that I can't even show curiosity about something without you jumping on me for something that happened over a year ago. You don't know my intentions, and you don't know me. I can tell you however that my intentions are not malicious in any way and once again I have apologized and moved on. I may not understand certain relationships but I have no right to judge them and am trying to understand and learn from this forum.

[Jenn! 918]

sure all older women can have the same qualities no matter where they live, each person chooses who they want to be with whereever they are from. Not directing to you Jenn directly just in example, im sure there were others in MENA that would have had the same qualities as you or anyone else married might find, why did you two pick each other, because you loved each other...people are just people, doesnt matter where you come from

I understand that, but you can't say, for example, "Moroccan men like older women because they have more life experience" and use that to explain why there are so many USC/Moroccan relationships with large age differences simply because there are not the same number of relationships between Moroccan men and older Moroccan women. If it were really the life experience that they were drawn to, then surely they would be attracted by life experience in a Moroccan women. But that just does not seem to be the case. There's clearly a difference between older American women and older Moroccan women since one group seems to be very marryable while the other is less so.

ETA: A perfect example of what I'm trying to say was moody's theory about frequenting the internet. One difference between American women and Moroccan women would be that American women probably spend a LOT more time on the internet, thereby increasing the chances of a romantic meeting. That would be a reasonable explanation as to why there are more USC/Moroccan couples with wide age gaps than Moroccan/Moroccan couples with wide age gaps.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Jenn!

[brnidokiegurl 0]

older american women at times go for young american men to (if you can find one responsible and that doesnt go around saying COOL every 5 secs) in the end it all still becomes a personal choice, fat skinny, tall, short, black, white its on the inside that counts

[Jenn! 918]

older american women at times go for young american men to (if you can find one responsible and that doesnt go around saying COOL every 5 secs) in the end it all still becomes a personal choice, fat skinny, tall, short, black, white its on the inside that counts

Yes, but we are trying to analyze something here, in which case you have to look at trends and such, not just fall back on platitudes.

ETA: Take it out of the context of MENA relationships. Let's say, instead that we're talking about interracial relationships here in the U.S. Have you ever noticed that you see more black men with white women than you see black women with white men? Mustn't there be some sort of rational explanation behind that? Yes, it is what's on the inside that counts, etc. But that does nothing to explain *why* there is a difference.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Jenn!