Guangzhou consulate. Good faith?/ Birth Cert. Question (merged threads)

[danieltrevi 0]

My fiancee and her 14-year-old daughter had their interview in Guangzhou on Wednesday, and were approved, but the interviewer asked for the "notarial birth certificate" for her daughter. Unfortunately, my fiancee was not married at the time of her daughter's birth, and she is not even sure if the father gave her his correct name. She has no way of getting his national ID number. She contacted the notarial office in Haikou, and was told that without the father's ID number that they could not issue a "notarial birth certificate."

This is the text of the email I would like to send to the consulate. I would like comments or suggestions. I would submit the copy of her daughter's Chu Sheng Yi Xue Zheng Ming and explain that the Chu Sheng Gong Zheng Shu is not available.

My fiancee, L. M., and her daughter, L. Y., had their interview on Wednesday, 23 November. Their K1 visa was approved but they asked for her notarial birth certificate. This will be very difficult, if not impossible, for her to obtain, because M. was unmarried at the time of Y's birth. Y's father never gave M. his national ID number, and he was not present for her birth. M. has no idea where he is right now. Finding him would be difficult if not impossible.

Obtaining the "notarial birth certificate" (Chu Sheng Gong Zheng Shu) requires the father's name and ID number in most places in China. She has already asked the notarial office in Haikou and they confirm this.

My fiancee was reluctant to explain all of this during the interview because Y. was present. At the time, Y. did not know that her mother was unmarried when she was born. I am sure you are well aware of the shame that this causes in China. M. has since explained all of this to Y, who was not upset at all. She said she had suspected it for a long time.

The father's identity is often unknown in the US, and there are provisions for it. The fact that the Chinese government imposes such onerous burdens on obtaining basic documents should not impede her getting her US visa. My fiancee gave the hospital the name that the father gave her, but she has no way of finding him. We humbly request that the medical birth certificate (Chu Sheng Yi Xue Zheng Ming) be used in her case. Thank you.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ryan H
Reason for edit: to remove full names.

[danieltrevi 0]

I posted a thread below, my fiancee was a single mother when her daughter was born. She has the medical birth certificate but she does not have the notarial birth certificate. The consulate approved our K1 visa, but they asked for a notarial birth certificate for her daughter. Because the medical birth certificate lacks the father's ID number (it has his name), and she doesn't know his ID number or where he is, the notarial certificate may be impossible to obtain.
My question is, if I explain this to the consulate using their email inquiry form, is there any chance that I will make matters worse? We are already approved, and they still have their passports. Can I assume that the consular officers will respond to a question in good faith, that the worst that could happen is that they will say "No" and that I won't jeopardize her visa?

[RandyW 149]

My fiancee and her 14-year-old daughter had their interview in Guangzhou on Wednesday, and were approved, but the interviewer asked for the "notarial birth certificate" for her daughter. Unfortunately, my fiancee was not married at the time of her daughter's birth, and she is not even sure if the father gave her his correct name. She has no way of getting his national ID number. She contacted the notarial office in Haikou, and was told that without the father's ID number that they could not issue a "notarial birth certificate."

This is the text of the email I would like to send to the consulate. I would like comments or suggestions. I would submit the copy of her daughter's Chu Sheng Yi Xue Zheng Ming and explain that the Chu Sheng Gong Zheng Shu is not available.

My fiancee, L. M., and her daughter, L. Y., had their interview on Wednesday, 23 November. Their K1 visa was approved but they asked for her notarial birth certificate. This will be very difficult, if not impossible, for her to obtain, because M. was unmarried at the time of Y's birth. Y's father never gave M. his national ID number, and he was not present for her birth. Mi. has no idea where he is right now. Finding him would be difficult if not impossible.

Obtaining the "notarial birth certificate" (Chu Sheng Gong Zheng Shu) requires the father's name and ID number in most places in China. She has already asked the notarial office in Haikou and they confirm this.

My fiancee was reluctant to explain all of this during the interview because Y. was present. At the time, Y. did not know that her mother was unmarried when she was born. I am sure you are well aware of the shame that this causes in China. M. has since explained all of this to Y., who was not upset at all. She said she had suspected it for a long time.

The father's identity is often unknown in the US, and there are provisions for it. The fact that the Chinese government imposes such onerous burdens on obtaining basic documents should not impede her getting her US visa. My fiancee gave the hospital the name that the father gave her, but she has no way of finding him. We humbly request that the medical birth certificate (Chu Sheng Yi Xue Zheng Ming) be used in her case. Thank you.

Not to state the obvious, but the Notarial Office, or Gong Zheng Chu (公证处) generates the white book, (GongZhengShu 公证书֤ ֤֤ or Notarial Certificate) based on documentation that YOU supply.

You HAVE a medical birth certificate. Why not simply go to the Gong Zheng Chu and ask for a GongZhengShu 公证书 based on her medical birth certificate?

The Chinese government HASN'T placed any "onerous burdens" on obtaining basic documents - you HAVE the birth certificate. I assume she also has a hukou, and Chinese ID. She is a FULLY DOCUMENTED Chinese citizen. The consulate will recognize this. Just get a white book translation of the medical birth certificate.

Even this seems like a ridiculous requirement on the part of the Consulate, since the medical birth certificate includes an English annotation.

The Gong Zheng Chu will issue white book translation based on whatever document you supply, - NOT just the notarial birth certificate 出生公证书, or chu sheng gong zheng shu.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ryan H
Reason for edit: to remove full names in quote.

[RandyW 149]

If you'll look at the Medical Certificate of Birth - 出生医学证明 (chu sheng yixue zheng ming), there is a space for the father's name and ID. WHAT DOES IT SAY??

I'm fairly certain that all you need is the white book (GongZhengShu 公证书֤ ֤֤ or Notarial Certificate)

[danieltrevi 0]

Father's name is filled out, but his Identity Card Number is blank. I am not sure why this is such a huge problem.

The other question I had, if I asked the consulate these questions directly, would I in any way make her situation worse?

Thank you.

[Pitaya 2,577]

~Two same/similar-themed posts merged~

~Please continue with merged thread~

Pitaya

VJ Moderation

[danieltrevi 0]

This is what it says at the website of the notary office in Haikou. It is the same for every notary office in China. You can't get the Gong Zheng Shu 公证书 without the father's name. There is no provision for "unknown" for father in China. She got a hukou through her brother's family, and that has been all she needs for school and health care.

出生公证

当事人办理出生公证，应向其住所地或出生地的涉外公证处申请。已在国外的当事人，应向其在华最后住所地公证处提出申请。

当事人应提交以下证明材料：

当事人的身份证、户口薄。

出生证或医院根据出生档案记载出具的证明。

当事人所在单位的人事部门出具的出行情况证明。待业或辞职的或无业的，由其档案保管部门或街道办事处出具证明，在校学生，由其所在学校出具证明。

一式2-3份的近期正面免冠照片。

I wrote the email to the consulate, explaining the situation. I will let you know how it goes.

[RandyW 149]

This is what it says at the website of the notary office in Haikou. It is the same for every notary office in China. You can't get the Gong Zheng Shu 公证书 without the father's name. There is no provision for "unknown" for father in China. She got a hukou through her brother's family, and that has been all she needs for school and health care.

出生公证 - Notarial Certificate of Birth

当事人办理出生公证，应向其住所地或出生地的涉外公证处申请。已在国外的当事人，应向其在华最后住所地公证处提出申请。

当事人应提交以下证明材料：

当事人的身份证、户口薄。

出生证或医院根据出生档案记载出具的证明。

当事人所在单位的人事部门出具的出行情况证明。待业或辞职的或无业的，由其档案保管部门或街道办事处出具证明，在校学生，由其所在学校出具证明。

一式2-3份的近期正面免冠照片。

I wrote the email to the consulate, explaining the situation. I will let you know how it goes.

出生公证

is Chūshēng gōngzhèng, or notarial certificate of birth.

Have your wife read the Chinese.

You have a REAL birth certificate. Take it to the the Notarial Office, or Gong Zheng Chu (公证处). Ask for a Gong Zheng Shu 公证书 - NOT a 出生公证. You want a notarial certificate of the Medical Birth Certificate. The FATHER'S NAME IS ON THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, no?

The notation is Medical Certificate of Birth - 出生医学证明 (chu sheng yixue zheng ming). Have them generate a Gong Zheng Shu 公证书 BASED ON THIS DOCUMENT.

They may still accept this by itself - I don't see why they wouldn't. But the fact remains - you CAN get a white book.

Gong Zheng Shu 公证书 is the name given to ANY Chinese document put into the white book format for use overseas.

Remember - the visa is optional.

Edited November 29, 2016 by RandyW

[danieltrevi 0]

I should have written, "you can't get the Gong Zheng Shu without the father's identity." Yes, his name is on the birth certificate, but not his national ID number.

She called the Gong Zheng Chu in Haikou and in Jiangxi Nanfeng, and they both said the same thing. She needs the father's national ID number. But the father is long gone. He did business briefly in Haikou, but then moved to Shenzhen.

The backstory, for what it is worth: My fiancee had a previous miscarriage, and a tubal pregnancy. She had only one Fallopian tube and had been told that her cervix was weak. She did not think she could get pregnant. When she became pregnant, initially the father said he filled out a marriage license in Shenzhen (which she never saw). She was already four or five months pregnant when she realized he had been lying to her. She realized that this was probably her last chance at motherhood...

I don't know how they managed to get the hukou without Dad's number, but they did, in Jiangxi, with her brother's help.

Anyway, her daughter, my future step-daughter, is a great kid, and we will work this out. Thank you so much for your interest and advice. I know we will work this out soon.

[rasaco 39]

Good luck with all of this, and let us know how it turns out! I don't have any advice about your situation specifically, just encouragement that I have found the Guangzhou consulate email service to actually be quite nice and helpful when a problem arises. I don't see how explaining the situation to them could make anything worse. Hope you got a good answer from them!