Question re: divorce of foreign spouse w/child

[user149 0]

The reason the English and Canadians (& all those people from countries that are part of the Visa Waiver Program) are allowed to come here freely w/o a visa is because they do not have a history of overstaying their visas....NOT because of coke, Chiquita or Exxon or whatever.

No, actually, you are incorrect. Visa overstays are nowhere near the most significant factor.

There's a whole lot more in the equation, i.e. extradition treaties, reciprocity, authenticity of passports, etc..

Please see http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/temp/with...thout_1255.html for details on what makes countries eligible for the Visa Waiver Program.

Clearly indicated under "types of issues considered" is:

* Existence of security and law enforcement threats in the country (terrorist activities, organized crime, money laundering, human and drug trafficking, etc.)

Which most certainly applies to FARC/AUC/ELN and their drug running.

Chiquita exacerbates the problem by financially supporting these terrorist groups and death squads.

Read all about it here: http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2007/3/17/231647/347

Get your facts straight, k?

But small newsflash for you...if you are pursuing a K-1 visa without being sure that the woman you're bringing here is the woman you are going to marry you are in effect lying on that visa application....which may constitute fraud!

Err... this statement is just confusing, and is about the most liberal definition of fraud I've ever heard of. I'll take my chances.

No offense taken...but read through the personal stories of some of the members here on VJ....10.5 months is the least amount of time some of them have been separated from their loved one, and they've been able to make it work.

Oh certainly, already have. I'm not new to forums in general, I know how to lurk. But let it suffice to say this approach will not work for me, and leave it at that.

How could you even think about not including the child (unless he/she is over the age of 18) in the petition? A child must go with the mother, unless there are circumstances we are not aware of.

Again, you are incorrect. You need to READ more, rather than trying to present your opinions as fact.

Maybe you should actually read the very site you post on! http://www.visajourney.com/faq/k1k2visa-I129f.html

"If your fiance(e) has unmarried children under 21, they can move to the US also. List all children under age 21 on the I-129F petition, whether or not they are going to move to the United States. When this petition is approved, the fiance(e) can apply for the K1/K2 visa."

See those words, "if", "can", and "whether or not"? Are you unable to infer the meaning?

And WRT me not including the child- get off your high moral horse, please. I never said I was seeking to leave her child behind, in fact everything I've written thus far (including the question in the OP!) points directly to the contrary.

@ Boiler: Thanks for the suggestion, but visitor visas from Colombia are nearly impossible to obtain. The applicant must demonstrate proof of significant financial, career and family ties. A bank manager w/significant salary and who owns his own home would have a tough time getting one. Apologies for running two threads, I misposted and well, both seemed to blow up before I could delete one.

[Otto 83]

The reason the English and Canadians (& all those people from countries that are part of the Visa Waiver Program) are allowed to come here freely w/o a visa is because they do not have a history of overstaying their visas....NOT because of coke, Chiquita or Exxon or whatever.

No, actually, you are incorrect. Visa overstays are nowhere near the most significant factor.

There's a whole lot more in the equation, i.e. extradition treaties, reciprocity, authenticity of passports, etc..

Please see http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/temp/with...thout_1255.html for details on what makes countries eligible for the Visa Waiver Program.

Clearly indicated under "types of issues considered" is:

* Existence of security and law enforcement threats in the country (terrorist activities, organized crime, money laundering, human and drug trafficking, etc.)

Which most certainly applies to FARC/AUC/ELN and their drug running.

Chiquita exacerbates the problem by financially supporting these terrorist groups and death squads.

Read all about it here: http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2007/3/17/231647/347

Get your facts straight, k?

But small newsflash for you...if you are pursuing a K-1 visa without being sure that the woman you're bringing here is the woman you are going to marry you are in effect lying on that visa application....which may constitute fraud!

Err... this statement is just confusing, and is about the most liberal definition of fraud I've ever heard of. I'll take my chances.

No offense taken...but read through the personal stories of some of the members here on VJ....10.5 months is the least amount of time some of them have been separated from their loved one, and they've been able to make it work.

Oh certainly, already have. I'm not new to forums in general, I know how to lurk. But let it suffice to say this approach will not work for me, and leave it at that.

How could you even think about not including the child (unless he/she is over the age of 18) in the petition? A child must go with the mother, unless there are circumstances we are not aware of.

Again, you are incorrect. You need to READ more, rather than trying to present your opinions as fact.

Maybe you should actually read the very site you post on! http://www.visajourney.com/faq/k1k2visa-I129f.html

"If your fiance(e) has unmarried children under 21, they can move to the US also. List all children under age 21 on the I-129F petition, whether or not they are going to move to the United States. When this petition is approved, the fiance(e) can apply for the K1/K2 visa."

See those words, "if", "can", and "whether or not"? Are you unable to infer the meaning?

And WRT me not including the child- get off your high moral horse, please. I never said I was seeking to leave her child behind, in fact everything I've written thus far (including the question in the OP!) points directly to the contrary.

@ Boiler: Thanks for the suggestion, but visitor visas from Colombia are nearly impossible to obtain. The applicant must demonstrate proof of significant financial, career and family ties. A bank manager w/significant salary and who owns his own home would have a tough time getting one. Apologies for running two threads, I misposted and well, both seemed to blow up before I could delete one.

To your original post.

"Now my question; if the marriage is sustained long enough for her to adjust status/remain in the country (2 years?) and she then divorces me, what kind of obligation will I face regarding child support for her daughter? Legal Question - suggest seek Legal Advice from a qualified professional with your best interests at heart.

Will I be exempt due to the fact I'm not the biological father, or is this obligation applied to me simply because I married the mother? Legal Question - suggest seek Legal Advice from a qualified professional with your best interests at heart.

Despite being divorced, will I still be held to obligations outlined in the Affidavit of Support?Legal Question - suggest seek Legal Advice from a qualified professional with your best interests at heart.

Final question: I will of course, seek to limit some of these obligations through the use of a pre-nuptual agreement. From what I've read, I can avoid things like alimony, but prenups have no effect on child support payments. What are some steps I can take to protect my assets in case my marriage to this beautiful mother-of-one goes south?Legal Question - suggest seek Legal Advice from a qualified professional with your best interests at heart.

Thanks much. "

OP- It is not likely you will find legal council here on VJ, and if you do, it is not likely they will be able/willing to give a satisfactory answer in an open forum without your revealing many personal facts; something I would encourage you not to do.

There are many well-meaning people here on VJ and many have attempted to give some kind of answer while others (since this is a family-based site) have given their opinion based on a moral value that they hold very close to their hearts (as they should).

I don't speak for everyone, only myself, but I wish you well and I certainly encourage you to protect your assets, your well being, and the well being of your future family. The best advice anyone can really give you here - whether you choose to take it or not - is to seek the individual help of a qualified attorney.

[Otto 83]

Edit: The quoted sections included in my post (except the OPs original questions) were not intended to be there.

[Mephys 2]

It is not US immigration's goal, or purpose, to "service" anyone other than those wishing to immigrate. That is their only purpose for existing. Uncle Sam is not demanding you rush into a sham marriage, on the contrary the govt. wants you to be sure before you go bring your significant other here to live with you. (It is not only so the beneficiary will not become a public charge that getting the visa requires the Affidavit of Support be filled out by the petitioner. Filling that document out, and knowing that you are financially responsible for that person should also make you think whether this is really what you want.)

No kidding it made me think, thats WHY I asked the question in the first place!

Stating that you do not want to get married yet, you're in effect saying that you don't know if you love this woman enough.

That's retarded and you know it. How many guys out there have girlfriends hinting at marriage? And of those guys, how many still have reservations about taking that next step? Does that mean they don't love the women they are with "enough"? Does that mean they are not interested in making a life together? After two failed marriages my mother settled down with a nice guy, but they aren't married... its been 9 years now, and neither seems to show any desire to get married again.

This visa is truly only for those that are sure that they want to marry that person.

Says you and Bush! Who are you to decide who I can and can't date, and how/where? Like I said before, they don't seem to offer a visa that fits my situation (if they do, please enlighten me, I haven't discovered one) and it isn't likely they will until there is widespread immigration reform. Riddle me this: Why should USCs with foreign spouses from countries like England and Canada be able to obtain visitor visas to be with their loved ones, yet I am excluded, because my spouse happens to be from a country with a spotty heritage (a good deal of which is due to being ravaged by AMERICAN desire for coke, and companies like Chiquita and Exxon paying off FARCanos to protect their investments while they steal national resources)? So until there is equality all-around when issuing visas, I feel no regret about exploiting the K-1 to acheive this end.

You are free to travel to her country....take your six weeks vacation and go visit her, come back and think about it and do it again the following year.....and repeat until you know for sure that this woman is the one you want to live out your days with. Otherwise you're setting yourself and her up for an exercise in futility. The K-1 visa is not a "let's date and see if we're meant to be together or not" visa. Don't use it for that purpose!

No offense but you just aren't making sense here. How does visiting for 6 weeks, then being absent for 10.5 months, in any way simulate a functioning healthy relationship? What woman would put up with that? My goal is to get her here and THEN we can feel each other out. And with all due respect, I will use the K-1 to whatever end I choose. The government doesn't care about my relationship, it cares about money- of which I am something like ~6 times the poverty limit- so as long as I meet/exceed the same requirements you do, you have no right to tell me how to date.

You think you can use this the way you want just because you have $hitload of money? You think you can fraud ( yeah it IS fraud to use the K-1 that way) and that nobody cares? Well, let me tell you, you are on the wrong forum to bring that up. I'm canadian and as far as I am concerned, its not given to everybody to use that visitor Visa to spend 6 months together like you claim we can do, I have barely seen my fiance 60 days in 18 months. You're making me very mad, but I'll stay polite. Get an attorney for your financial questions, and /shoo away.

[Mephys 2]

It is not US immigration's goal, or purpose, to "service" anyone other than those wishing to immigrate. That is their only purpose for existing. Uncle Sam is not demanding you rush into a sham marriage, on the contrary the govt. wants you to be sure before you go bring your significant other here to live with you. (It is not only so the beneficiary will not become a public charge that getting the visa requires the Affidavit of Support be filled out by the petitioner. Filling that document out, and knowing that you are financially responsible for that person should also make you think whether this is really what you want.)

No kidding it made me think, thats WHY I asked the question in the first place!

Stating that you do not want to get married yet, you're in effect saying that you don't know if you love this woman enough.

That's retarded and you know it. How many guys out there have girlfriends hinting at marriage? And of those guys, how many still have reservations about taking that next step? Does that mean they don't love the women they are with "enough"? Does that mean they are not interested in making a life together? After two failed marriages my mother settled down with a nice guy, but they aren't married... its been 9 years now, and neither seems to show any desire to get married again.

This visa is truly only for those that are sure that they want to marry that person.

Says you and Bush! Who are you to decide who I can and can't date, and how/where? Like I said before, they don't seem to offer a visa that fits my situation (if they do, please enlighten me, I haven't discovered one) and it isn't likely they will until there is widespread immigration reform. Riddle me this: Why should USCs with foreign spouses from countries like England and Canada be able to obtain visitor visas to be with their loved ones, yet I am excluded, because my spouse happens to be from a country with a spotty heritage (a good deal of which is due to being ravaged by AMERICAN desire for coke, and companies like Chiquita and Exxon paying off FARCanos to protect their investments while they steal national resources)? So until there is equality all-around when issuing visas, I feel no regret about exploiting the K-1 to acheive this end.

You are free to travel to her country....take your six weeks vacation and go visit her, come back and think about it and do it again the following year.....and repeat until you know for sure that this woman is the one you want to live out your days with. Otherwise you're setting yourself and her up for an exercise in futility. The K-1 visa is not a "let's date and see if we're meant to be together or not" visa. Don't use it for that purpose!

No offense but you just aren't making sense here. How does visiting for 6 weeks, then being absent for 10.5 months, in any way simulate a functioning healthy relationship? What woman would put up with that? My goal is to get her here and THEN we can feel each other out. And with all due respect, I will use the K-1 to whatever end I choose. The government doesn't care about my relationship, it cares about money- of which I am something like ~6 times the poverty limit- so as long as I meet/exceed the same requirements you do, you have no right to tell me how to date.

You think you can use this the way you want just because you have $hitload of money? You think you can fraud ( yeah it IS fraud to use the K-1 that way) and that nobody cares? Well, let me tell you, you are on the wrong forum to bring that up. I'm canadian and as far as I am concerned, its not given to everybody to use that visitor Visa to spend 6 months together like you claim we can do, I have barely seen my fiance 60 days in 18 months. You're making me very mad, but I'll stay polite. Get an attorney for your financial questions, and /shoo away.

[Mephys 2]

edited: double post

Edited April 2, 2007 by Mephys

[Otto 83]

edited

Edited April 2, 2007 by Karin und Otto

[user149 0]

You think you can use this the way you want just because you have $hitload of money? You think you can fraud ( yeah it IS fraud to use the K-1 that way) and that nobody cares? Well, let me tell you, you are on the wrong forum to bring that up. I'm canadian and as far as I am concerned, its not given to everybody to use that visitor Visa to spend 6 months together like you claim we can do, I have barely seen my fiance 60 days in 18 months.

Here we go again.

When I referred to "visitor visas" I misworded. Excuse me. As others have pointed out, what I was alluding to was the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)- which basically allows citizens from a select 27 countries to waltz into the US with nothing more than a machine-readable passport, for a periods up to 90 days.

As for your specific situation- I listed Canada as one of these countries, but that isn't quite true. Special rules exist for Canadian citizens which are similar to the VWP, but are actually MORE lenient. Details available on the Canadian/US embassy site, here: http://www.amcits.com/exceptions.asp

"Note: In almost all circumstances Canadian citizens do not need visitor, business, transit or other visas to enter the U.S., either from Canada or from other countries."

Yeah so... if you've only seen your fiance 60 days in the last 18 months, my guess is it has nothing to do with Visa requirements. Get a f'king machine-readable passport and you can WALK over the border- is this really news to you? My prospective spouse can do no such thing- through neither my fault nor hers, and I see that as unfair. I don't care if I'm making you mad- its not my fault you're grossly uninformed, eh?

You're making me very mad, but I'll stay polite. Get an attorney for your financial questions, and /shoo away.

Also, telling me to /shoo is not polite. That's like me saying, "no offense, but LOL @ meeting your spouse on WoW!"

My thanks to all who have provided personal experience and informative, objective opinions; my question has largely been answered. To those who've felt the need to browbeat me with their anglo-christian views on marriage and other #######, thank you for the opportunity to hone my debate skills. Mods might as well lock this, any useful information has already been dispensed with.

...lolWoW

[ILoveMephys 0]

You think you can use this the way you want just because you have $hitload of money? You think you can fraud ( yeah it IS fraud to use the K-1 that way) and that nobody cares? Well, let me tell you, you are on the wrong forum to bring that up. I'm canadian and as far as I am concerned, its not given to everybody to use that visitor Visa to spend 6 months together like you claim we can do, I have barely seen my fiance 60 days in 18 months.

Here we go again.

When I referred to "visitor visas" I misworded. Excuse me. As others have pointed out, what I was alluding to was the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)- which basically allows citizens from a select 27 countries to waltz into the US with nothing more than a machine-readable passport, for a periods up to 90 days.

As for your specific situation- I listed Canada as one of these countries, but that isn't quite true. Special rules exist for Canadian citizens which are similar to the VWP, but are actually MORE lenient. Details available on the Canadian/US embassy site, here: http://www.amcits.com/exceptions.asp

"Note: In almost all circumstances Canadian citizens do not need visitor, business, transit or other visas to enter the U.S., either from Canada or from other countries."

Yeah so... if you've only seen your fiance 60 days in the last 18 months, my guess is it has nothing to do with Visa requirements. Get a f'king machine-readable passport and you can WALK over the border- is this really news to you? My prospective spouse can do no such thing- through neither my fault nor hers, and I see that as unfair. I don't care if I'm making you mad- its not my fault you're grossly uninformed, eh?

You're making me very mad, but I'll stay polite. Get an attorney for your financial questions, and /shoo away.

Also, telling me to /shoo is not polite. That's like me saying, "no offense, but LOL @ meeting your spouse on WoW!"

My thanks to all who have provided personal experience and informative, objective opinions; my question has largely been answered. To those who've felt the need to browbeat me with their anglo-christian views on marriage and other #######, thank you for the opportunity to hone my debate skills. Mods might as well lock this, any useful information has already been dispensed with.

...lolWoW

ok you can talk ####### about anyone else on this board and its up to them to say something about it themselves, but I will not stand here and let some fool talk about something he has no idea about especially when it comes to my mephys. Yeah I could care less about your situation, you can use whatever you want to use to do whatever you want to do, if your shallow enough to abuse a privelage to your liking then by all means do it pal, but keep your opinios about Mephys and myself to yourself. Go live your life any way you want to, but when you open up yourself for emotional comments about a difficult process that mostly everyone on this board has lived though, you had better be able to take them with the same enthusiasm that you posted your question with.

Oh and WoW, was just a point that we happened be at the same point at the same time and out of Millions of people that happened to find the person that we knew we always wanted but never knew existed. So STFU about trying to have fun with a point of conversation that you know S**t about and go /shoo........

dont even bother posting a reply to this cause I could care less of what you have to say, just know to keep your mouth shut...

[girl 37 7]

As for your specific situation- I listed Canada as one of these countries, but that isn't quite true. Special rules exist for Canadian citizens which are similar to the VWP, but are actually MORE lenient. Details available on the Canadian/US embassy site, here: http://www.amcits.com/exceptions.asp

"Note: In almost all circumstances Canadian citizens do not need visitor, business, transit or other visas to enter the U.S., either from Canada or from other countries."

Yeah so... if you've only seen your fiance 60 days in the last 18 months, my guess is it has nothing to do with Visa requirements. Get a f'king machine-readable passport and you can WALK over the border- is this really news to you? My prospective spouse can do no such thing- through neither my fault nor hers, and I see that as unfair. I don't care if I'm making you mad- its not my fault you're grossly uninformed, eh?

A point of information: Canadians can, and have been (myself included) refused entry if the border official knows that the purpose of the visit is to see their "friend" or spouse. This can occur even if the Canadian has an approved petition and carries lots of evidence of ties to Canada (employment, housing, etc.) and has a "machine readable passport".

Edited April 3, 2007 by girl 37

[lostunderwaves 0]

Lol at WoW yourself! Who are you to judge how people meet? And how is meeting on WoW worse than what you're talking about doing?

[mRx 16]

predicting this thread will be on lockdown soon. Till then,

[user149 0]

A point of information: Canadians can, and have been (myself included) refused entry if the border official knows that the purpose of the visit is to see their "friend" or spouse. This can occur even if the Canadian has an approved petition and carries lots of evidence of ties to Canada (employment, housing, etc.) and has a "machine readable passport".

Just wondering, not trying to argue- what do you usually say to the border guy? Whenever he asks I just say vacation (but undoubtedly USCs are under much less scrutiny). Would he have refused you if you said you were going to check out Niagra falls, or maybe go camping in upstate New York for 2 months?

Lol at WoW yourself! Who are you to judge how people meet? And how is meeting on WoW worse than what you're talking about doing?

I'm not judging, but I do have some experience with the matter. Being that I'm pretty familiar with the MMORPG world myself (former ffxi junkie), this was just too easy a shot to resist. I've seen the entire gamut of relationship horror stories on these games: people being used/seduced for items/gold, people straying from REAL LIFE relationships/destroying their marriages over someone they met in-game, longtime friends fighting over a digital cat-girl only to discover she's really a man, people being tricked into giving out their personal information and then account stolen, people having cybersex then posting it on forums to embarass people, I could go on and on. Hell, I can't lie, I was sweet on my own pile of pixels once. On the surface, an MMORPG seems a perfectly innocuous place to meet.. like any internet chat room. The caveat being, the types of people who are drawn to MMORPGs tend to have very escapist personalities. I've met many girls who "date" within the framework of the game, due to poor treatment at the hands of men IRL. Alot of guys who "date" there because they haven't had much luck approaching women IRL. Lots of low self-esteem all around, which is basically a prerequisite for playing this type of game- its what allows people to grind away for hours performing mindless tasks they don't enjoy, trying to get a virtual sword, instead of going outside (and this was me for 2 years, if you have a WoW character 60 or over, this means you, too). What I've observed is that, when these people who meet in game get together in real life, they argue ALOT, and have huge difficulty resolving conflicts- resulting in even minor disputes being blown severely out of proportion. The part about MMORPGs that appeals to alot of people (having total control to create and customize a personality all your own) also tends to make them insular and uncompromising, having difficulty relinquishing a portion of this control to their significant other.

Anyway I've rambled long enough, I hope for you guys' sake nothing I said hit TOO close to home.

[Boiler 45,967]

I replied to a thread yesterday on another Board from a Canadian who had been refused entry.

People who seek entry on the VWP are refused every day. All a VWP does is allow you to get to the gate, US Immigration, whether you get let in all depends on your individual situation. Plenty of examples on this board of those who have failed.

[maya62 7]

To the OP:

Re your original question, I agree you need a good attorney, preferrably one well versed in both immigration and family law.

Re the idea of marrying a woman, a mother of an 8 year old, and bringing her and her child here to the US: IMHO in all fairness to all concerned, and particularly the child who has no voice here, you need to be MUCH more sure than you are about marriage to this woman before you go turning everyone's life upside down.

You remind me a bit of myself... you will be much happier if you accept that the system/the world is NOT fair (and really, although we are commonly raised to believe in fairness, there are NO examples of it in nature... it is a nice dream but nothing more), and learn as much as you can about how to get to know this woman better BEFORE you make any commitments other than those you are prepared to keep. Anything less is a really mean thing to do to an 8 year old, never mind his/her mother.

Best wishes,

Maya

Edited April 3, 2007 by maya62