What to do with the new house?

[bcking 3,157]

Ok, great idea. Sorry if my post upset you as being the only thread that is inflammatory. Now sit back and watch as CEHST plays out before your very eyes...

God I think this is the problem. Why do you assume that you make people upset? I'm far from upset, angry or any other dramatic emotion that you may be trying to stir up. I was just letting you know you come across as petty and childish when you begin a thread the way you did. I don't care if you are fine appearing that way. Just letting you know.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Great post Teddy. I can see and admit that many times, I come across as trying to invalidate or not accept due to my poor choice of words. I may not feel that way inside, but I can see how it probably comes across that way; like I can't see any other opinion but my own. Something I need to work on, for sure.

It is a curse. And a valid reason why I would never be good at politics. But as I have said in other posts, I have learned a lot in my time in CEHST, from listening to all the differences in opinion and methods of expressing them. Some folks here stand out as very skillful in stating their opinions (or facts) without stepping on other's feelings. If I can become better at it, then my time I waste here won't be a complete waste.

The part in bold is primarily where I think the difference lies. What you may be willing to accept as an example of racism, I may not. It's not that I'm invalidating that example, it's that I may believe the example doesn't meet my definition of racism. I think there's about 20 years or so between us and that's a fairly good amount of time for people's views to become different over the same issue. I would imagine there are some things that are brought about by millenials today that you would view differently simply because you were raised in different times.

I would never try to dictate to anyone what they should think or believe. What a person thinks or believes is based on their own judgement and life experiences. Each person is different and everyone should respect that.

I have found that as time goes by and definitions are broadened and watered down from what they were originally meant to mean so they include more people and in turn more incidents fall under the definition, the incidents don't seem to mean as much and the reactions to these incidents are also watered down.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ok. Sorry my sorry was not needed. I appreciate your insight.

God I think this is the problem. Why do you assume that you make people upset? I'm far from upset, angry or any other dramatic emotion that you may be trying to stir up. I was just letting you know you come across as petty and childish when you begin a thread the way you did. I don't care if you are fine appearing that way. Just letting you know.

[smilesammich 10,727]

The part in bold is primarily where I think the difference lies. What you may be willing to accept as an example of racism, I may not. It's not that I'm invalidating that example, it's that I may believe the example doesn't meet my definition of racism. I think there's about 20 years or so between us and that's a fairly good amount of time for people's views to become different over the same issue. I would imagine there are some things that are brought about by millenials today that you would view differently simply because you were raised in different times.

I would never try to dictate to anyone what they should think or believe. What a person thinks or believes is based on their own judgement and life experiences. Each person is different and everyone should respect that.

I have found that as time goes by and definitions are broadened and watered down from what they were originally meant to mean so they include more people and in turn more incidents fall under the definition, the incidents don't seem to mean as much and the reactions to these incidents are also watered down.

yeah. that's probably it exactly. because in my opinion, we as whites have to take a seat to what minorities tell us their experiences are. i don't think we as white people can be a good judge as to what constitutes racism because today it looks much different that what it looked like even 20 years ago and no matter how much we empathize. when we cross the line from empathizing to attempting to judge and redirect a minorities feelings on a matter only they can fully experience, to me it's just condescending. and given our history in this country, white people being condescending just isn't a good look.

i guess the reason i don't put much weight on age is because my parents hold views similar to mine (not as extreme as mine, but i've had many years to work on them), but there is also only 19/21 years between my parents and myself.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Good stuff here, Val. Very well said. I also think that as a woman, you are more likely to tune in to another's needs/feelings than the majority of men. Not saying some men aren't sensitive, they are. But I am not one of them, until someone/thing shakes me up a bit and causes me to look beyond my own "bubble".

Be thankful you see things as your parents did (or vice versa). My dad and I are polar opposites. He seems to hate Obama being president because he is black, nothing more. Uses the N word pretty often, even on FB. I cannot stand it. In fact, it has led me to not visit as often as I might, and certainly to keeping my kids away from him more than I should. He is the very definition of racist from his time, and it pans me to have to deal with it.

yeah. that's probably it exactly. because in my opinion, we as whites have to take a seat to what minorities tell us their experiences are. i don't think we as white people can be a good judge as to what constitutes racism because today it looks much different that what it looked like even 20 years ago and no matter how much we empathize. when we cross the line from empathizing to attempting to judge and redirect a minorities feelings on a matter only they can fully experience, to me it's just condescending. and given our history in this country, white people being condescending just isn't a good look.

i guess the reason i don't put much weight on age is because my parents hold views similar to mine (not as extreme as mine, but i've had many years to work on them), but there is also only 19/21 years between my parents and myself.

[Teddy B 17,252]

yeah. that's probably it exactly. because in my opinion, we as whites have to take a seat to what minorities tell us their experiences are. i don't think we as white people can be a good judge as to what constitutes racism because today it looks much different that what it looked like even 20 years ago and no matter how much we empathize. when we cross the line from empathizing to attempting to judge and redirect a minorities feelings on a matter only they can fully experience, to me it's just condescending. and given our history in this country, white people being condescending just isn't a good look.

i guess the reason i don't put much weight on age is because my parents hold views similar to mine (not as extreme as mine, but i've had many years to work on them), but there is also only 19/21 years between my parents and myself.

I definitely agree that we as whites should be open to what minorities tell us their experiences are and I do attempt to do that as much as I can. I've learned plenty through just talking to people of color that has changed the way I view this issue from how I thought about it 20 or 30 years ago. I never realized how isolated I was from it until I was able to view it through their eyes and their experiences.

My definition of what constitutes racism has grown over time, but there are still times when I feel the wool is being pulled over my eyes and that's where I draw the line unless proven otherwise. It's fine to listen to other people and get their input, but people can also be deceiving and some times the line between the truth and deception can be blurred.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Good stuff here, Val. Very well said. I also think that as a woman, you are more likely to tune in to another's needs/feelings than the majority of men. Not saying some men aren't sensitive, they are. But I am not one of them, until someone/thing shakes me up a bit and causes me to look beyond my own "bubble".

Be thankful you see things as your parents did (or vice versa). My dad and I are polar opposites. He seems to hate Obama being president because he is black, nothing more. Uses the N word pretty often, even on FB. I cannot stand it. In fact, it has led me to not visit as often as I might, and certainly to keeping my kids away from him more than I should. He is the very definition of racist from his time, and it pans me to have to deal with it.

my parents had to deal with me as a 15 year old reciting malcolm x, seemingly hating my own race, and totally shunning my religion of birth. i was a handful. yeah, i think they did extremely well.

honestly, what brought about the most change in my mothers family, was biracial grandkids. complete about face, although it took a few years in the beginning. my dad's side is another story.

[smilesammich 10,727]

My definition of what constitutes racism has grown over time, but there are still times when I feel the wool is being pulled over my eyes and that's where I draw the line unless proven otherwise. It's fine to listen to other people and get their input, but people can also be deceiving and some times the line between the truth and deception can be blurred.

there was also a time in my life when i started to lean towards being a full on racist. long story i won't tell, but i was angry and very hurt and it was easy to assume what happened was because the person involved was black and that's just how black people are. i was pulling the wool over my own eyes. but young bucks do that i guess knowing where to properly place blame can get blurry too, is all.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I don't think there is any bi-racial marriages in our history. Except mine, if you count that. What I just don't get is my father's attitude towards blacks. His dad was quite an a-hole, from what I heard and recall as a kid. Never heard from him on the race topic much. Maybe that was the deal; he hated it so avoided it altogether?

My mother and grandmother taught us all from a very young age that color didn't matter, to be kind to all. I am glad that stuck to most of my family, though I can think of one sibling who is turning out to be more like my dad.

my parents had to deal with me as a 15 year old reciting malcolm x, seemingly hating my own race, and totally shunning my religion of birth. i was a handful. yeah, i think they did extremely well.

honestly, what brought about the most change in my mothers family, was biracial grandkids. complete about face, although it took a few years in the beginning. my dad's side is another story.

[smilesammich 10,727]

I don't think there is any bi-racial marriages in our history. Except mine, if you count that. What I just don't get is my father's attitude towards blacks. His dad was quite an a-hole, from what I heard and recall as a kid. Never heard from him on the race topic much. Maybe that was the deal; he hated it so avoided it altogether?

My mother and grandmother taught us all from a very young age that color didn't matter, to be kind to all. I am glad that stuck to most of my family, though I can think of one sibling who is turning out to be more like my dad.

well, the very reason i couldn't continue down that path was because of the friends and family i have that aren't white. kinda stops you short quick. i think with most whites (especially older whites) that are racist or have those tendencies, they haven't had much or any experience/relationships with minorities so it's easy to demonize. definitely easy to demonize an entire when a person has been slighted or victimized by that race and don't have any other examples or experiences to offset.

Edited November 15, 2016 by smilesammich

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

We probably all have a story along those lines. I know I do. Had a couple of really good friends who were black when I was in college. Loaned one an item he was wanting. Forgot about it for a few months. When I needed it again, I asked about it. He said it was stolen from him. My other black friend looked at him like he was crazy (or boldly lying). I said no worries, just buy me a new one (that's how I roll... If I borrow something from someone, it goes back to them in the same or better condition than when I got it, plain and simple). He never did. We ceased being friends.

I'm sure this in no way compares to your story, but it made me realize that even though we were all three friends, at the end of the day, I was the outsider because I was white. The other guy allowed his black friend to "win" with his lie. I found out later that they were still using said borrowed item, it was never stolen. Oh well... If this is the worst injustice I ever had to endure, I would have zero to complain about, eh?

there was also a time in my life when i started to lean towards being a full on racist. long story i won't tell, but i was angry and very hurt and it was easy to assume what happened was because the person involved was black and that's just how black people are. i was pulling the wool over my own eyes. but young bucks do that i guess knowing where to properly place blame can get blurry too, is all.

[smilesammich 10,727]

We probably all have a story along those lines. I know I do. Had a couple of really good friends who were black when I was in college. Loaned one an item he was wanting. Forgot about it for a few months. When I needed it again, I asked about it. He said it was stolen from him. My other black friend looked at him like he was crazy (or boldly lying). I said no worries, just buy me a new one (that's how I roll... If I borrow something from someone, it goes back to them in the same or better condition than when I got it, plain and simple). He never did. We ceased being friends.

I'm sure this in no way compares to your story, but it made me realize that even though we were all three friends, at the end of the day, I was the outsider because I was white. The other guy allowed his black friend to "win" with his lie. I found out later that they were still using said borrowed item, it was never stolen. Oh well... If this is the worst injustice I ever had to endure, I would have zero to complain about, eh?

and that's when reason steps in and says, hey these guys didn't disrespect your friendship and trust because they're black. they sound like people users and not good friends. which we all know those types come in all flavors.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Truth. Reality is, it is the. INDIVIDUAL who was not a good friend. Color had no part in it.

On your other point, the "demonizing" aspect... I had a lengthy post all typed up and my battery died. But the gist of it was... Some don't have a reason for the hatred. They just hate. One of these days when I am bored, I will call my dad and ask him why he hates so much. Strangely enough, I recall his best friend when I was about 5 was a black guy. Came around and played pool all the time. I wonder if perhaps said guy hit on my mom, or did something to lose my dad's trust, and he is today because of what you posted in my quote. I don't know. But now that we are talking about it, I will for sure confront that demon with him. I deserve to know.

I had a GF whose father was rather loud in his disgust and contempt for blacks. After asking him once (in his own house and after a tirade against blacks using other adjectives), why he hated them so much, what had they done to hurt him, his reply was along the lines of, "They can't hurt me, I'd kill them. But they are black, so I can't stand them." A lot of teaching had to have gone into that attitude. I never went back to his house, and a few months later, his daughter and I broke up. Not just because of him, of course. But in the back of my mind, I kept envisioning holiday dinners around his table... No thank ye!

and that's when reason steps in and says, hey these guys didn't disrespect your friendship and trust because they're black. they sound like people users and not good friends. which we all know those types come in all flavors.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Truth. Reality is, it is the. INDIVIDUAL who was not a good friend. Color had no part in it.

On your other point, the "demonizing" aspect... I had a lengthy post all typed up and my battery died. But the gist of it was... Some don't have a reason for the hatred. They just hate. One of these days when I am bored, I will call my dad and ask him why he hates so much. Strangely enough, I recall his best friend when I was about 5 was a black guy. Came around and played pool all the time. I wonder if perhaps said guy hit on my mom, or did something to lose my dad's trust, and he is today because of what you posted in my quote. I don't know. But now that we are talking about it, I will for sure confront that demon with him. I deserve to know.

I had a GF whose father was rather loud in his disgust and contempt for blacks. After asking him once (in his own house and after a tirade against blacks using other adjectives), why he hated them so much, what had they done to hurt him, his reply was along the lines of, "They can't hurt me, I'd kill them. But they are black, so I can't stand them." A lot of teaching had to have gone into that attitude. I never went back to his house, and a few months later, his daughter and I broke up. Not just because of him, of course. But in the back of my mind, I kept envisioning holiday dinners around his table... No thank ye!

and your dad deserves to be rid of that hate. hate is a heavy burden and he'll be much happier if he can start to break it down and get rid of it.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I know, believe me I know. But old habits...

and your dad deserves to be rid of that hate. hate is a heavy burden and he'll be much happier if he can start to break it down and get rid of it.