What to do with the new house?

[MarkPerry 488]

Black hole, what black hole? Do you mean the abyss that was waiting for Obama when he took office? We're no longer in that abyss.

I agree that race relations are at lowest point they have been in a long time.

Our borders have been open to uneducated and criminal illegal aliens since I can remember. That's Obama's fault how?

How has he weakened our military?

I'm not a big fan of DACA or DAPA, but I'm also not a big fan of splitting up families or deporting people from the only country they've ever known because they were brought here as innocent children. There are tough decisions that have to be made and I'm glad I don't have to make some of them.

On illegal immigration he has almost encouraged it by his executive actions, and he is not strong on securing our borders, It not his fault, but he hasn't done much to try to stop it. That is well documented by one of Trumps cornerstone policy of build wall and illegal immigration.

He has weakened our military by shrinking it first, and also other countries around the world see the USA as weaker than where we were before he took office.

[Teddy B 17,252]

i disagree that race relations are the worst they've been in a long time. i think we have a very clear divide between those who acknowledge racism exists and those who don't. i don't actually believe the racial divide is drawn on race, but more on perspective.

I think you and I have a different view on this mainly because of the age difference between us. That divide exists because our definitions of what constitutes racism are a bit different and I think that is commonplace throughout the country. Younger people today are willing to accept a much wider spectrum of what constitutes racism than what people my age were raised to believe.

Don't get me wrong, there are still many blatant racists running around. I'm speaking of the people who acknowledge racism is still a problem and needs to be addressed.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I agree with you on the whole illegal immigrant issue. As I said to Val in another thread, it would suck to be uprooted from the country you have been living in for years, sent back to your "home" country with nothing, and have any expectations of being able to apply legally for re-entry to the US. Certainly a hard call to make. Wouldn't want to make it myself.

As for the economy and unemployment you mentioned... Aren't we currently about where were were pre-2009 as regards unemployment? And part of THAT is because they changed the definition of unemployed during Obama's reign, IIRC. And as for the economy... We are so far in debt as a country it's unbelievable. Under Obama, the debt increased as much in 8 years as it did from 1993 up to 2009.

He has weakened our military by pay cuts. Raw numbers are relatively steady for numbers in our forces since 1998, while the population as a whole has increased by about 17% in that same time frame. So that can be seen as a reduction in force. But pay cuts are where I think he hurt the military the most. The military was getting below-average pay raises for many years, then suddenly they were brought up to the civilian equivalent, or nearly so, when Obama took over and cut it back again. Now military raises are lower than they have been for 40+ years. Not all of that is Obama's fault, as there is math involved depending on the ECI. But thankfully, Congress has bumped up Obama's proposed raises to keep our men and women slightly above the poverty level.

Black hole, what black hole? Do you mean the abyss that was waiting for Obama when he took office? We're no longer in that abyss.

I agree that race relations are at lowest point they have been in a long time.

Our borders have been open to uneducated and criminal illegal aliens since I can remember. That's Obama's fault how?

How has he weakened our military?

I'm not a big fan of DACA or DAPA, but I'm also not a big fan of splitting up families or deporting people from the only country they've ever known because they were brought here as innocent children. There are tough decisions that have to be made and I'm glad I don't have to make some of them.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Val, lemme axe you a question... Does racism exist outside the US? If so, does it exist in all countries? Regardless of those two answers, WHY does racism exist?

(Or three. )

i disagree that race relations are the worst they've been in a long time. i think we have a very clear divide between those who acknowledge racism exists and those who don't. i don't actually believe the racial divide is drawn on race, but more on perspective.

[Teddy B 17,252]

On illegal immigration he has almost encouraged it by his executive actions, and he is not strong on securing our borders, It not his fault, but he hasn't done much to try to stop it. That is well documented by one of Trumps cornerstone policy of build wall and illegal immigration.

He has weakened our military by shrinking it first, and also other countries around the world see the USA as weaker than where we were before he took office.

I'll give you that approving programs like DACA & DAPA give people who are contemplating coming to the US illegally a light at the end of the tunnel. That's one of the reasons why I'm not a big fan of it, the other is I don't believe in rewarding illegal activity. But the way I justify programs like this are the millions of innocent children who are trapped in the middle through no fault of their own. Why should they have to pay for someone else's illegal actions?

I do not believe that a wall would do anything to curb illegal immigration. There is already a major network of underground tunnels and smuggling in place, a wall will not do anything to stop this.

I don't believe that the draw down in active duty members of the armed forces has made the US weak. We are still the most powerful military in the world by far. With current technology, we simply do not need as many "boots on the ground" as we did in the past.

[smilesammich 10,727]

I think you and I have a different view on this mainly because of the age difference between us. That divide exists because our definitions of what constitutes racism are a bit different and I think that is commonplace throughout the country. Younger people today are willing to accept a much wider spectrum of what constitutes racism than what people my age were raised to believe.

Don't get me wrong, there are still many blatant racists running around. I'm speaking of the people who acknowledge racism is still a problem and needs to be addressed.

i don't know that it's an age difference - i'm not that much younger than you. i think bottom line, it comes down to if you're a person willing to listen to other people's experiences and if you invalidate those experiences or if you accept them for what they are. reason prevails, imo. for example, if you see an account of a person who suffered a verbal attack from a bigot on the street i feel like you would read to that story and at minimum validate that persons account by reasoning that it's happening is at least possible to have occurred. i don't think you would straight off the bat determine that person was making the whole thing up because they're butthurt trump won, case closed.

i don't think that older generations get to pick or determine how the younger generations process institutions like racism - as they have unique experiences and are coming from a point in history where we were already some where else..that being said, kids will always benefit from listening to the wisdom of those who have gone through the fire before them. i don't think it hurts any reasonable free thinking adult to consider the grievances of the kids trampling the lawn either.

in my opinion, it is different to deal with racism as we might have witnessed it growing up and how bigotry and ignorance is fanning the flames today. i feel like dealing with racism used to be about dealing with racists themselves and now its become something a bit more slippery and hard to call out.

Val, lemme axe you a question... Does racism exist outside the US? If so, does it exist in all countries? Regardless of those two answers, WHY does racism exist?

(Or three. )

? please don't tell me you're trying to add me to your fb/vj news source list. i will disappoint you.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I'm becoming used to it.

No, I wanted to see if you and I are anywhere close on understanding why racism exists at all, anywhere.

? please don't tell me you're trying to add me to your fb/vj news source list. i will disappoint you.

[smilesammich 10,727]

I'm becoming used to it.

No, I wanted to see if you and I are anywhere close on understanding why racism exists at all, anywhere.

i'm not really interested in telling you my opinion or thoughts only to have you tell me i'm wrong because i don't hold your opinions or thoughts. so please do break that mold.

of course racism exists outside the us. racism occurs when a person believes their race is superior to others. your hand is clammy, do i really have to hold it?

[Rob L 3,811]

I'm becoming used to it.

No, I wanted to see if you and I are anywhere close on understanding why racism exists at all, anywhere.

In order to address the question as to why racism exists (in this country) you will first need to admit that it does exist ( in this country)

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ahhhh, what a dear you are. So warm and cuddly.

Racism exists because people desire to be comfortable. They want to be around others like themselves. They wish to feel at peace with themselves and the people with whom they associate. People resist change. It's instinctual, almost animal, if you will. That's why herds of animals stick together; protection and safety. You don't see too many groups of hippos with a zebra or two intermingling. Nor do you see a herd of gazelles with a tiger "overcoming prejudice" and hanging out on the plains.

We as humans have the ability to reason, to be smarter than animals of course. We should be able to see past skin color and culture and accept one another. But if you look at the human race over time, different tribes or bands of people were often at war with others. Europeans were pretty "racist" towards the original inhabitants of America (recent example). Muslims have been pretty "racist" towards folks of just about any other religion. Even today, as an American, I am treated differently when I am in another country. Why? Because I am DIFFERENT. And people are often wary (at a minimum, curious) about DIFFERENT. Sometimes, they are scared of it. Sometimes, their fear leads to self-protection. Violence before the need, even.

What I am trying to say is, racism has existed in the world for centuries. Just because you see it as a problem today does not mean it will go away in your lifetime. Or your grandkids' lifetimes. Would we all be better off it it was eradicated? Yes, we would. But regardless if you believe that we are all different since God did the whole Babel thing, or because we evolved from amoeba as different human beings of various colors and practices, the fact remains that people have a hard time accepting different.

Truth is, we are not all as different a we think, and science today allows us to see that pretty clearly. You probably missed it, but I posted what I think was a pretty enlightened video on the subject here: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/616612-biased-strangers-take-a-dna-test/

But still, we perceive different as scary/dangerous/unknown/bad/uncomfortable... Whatever. And it will always be so, IMHO, especially among the less educated. While I would absolutely love to live in a world where we are all seen as equal and human, I just don't see it happening in my lifetime. Nor my kids'.

[bcking 3,157]

Again, you are excused for being new here. For those of us who have been around for 5 or more years, this has been discussed before. How the Clinton's aren't rich, they "barely had enough money to live" when they left the WH. In fact, they were so poor they had to take furnishing and such from the WH just to put in their new house (which they later returned after they were caught). Just a good ole American family, barely getting by. Which is complete, BS, by the way. The question you might ask yourself is... How did they come by their millions, since they both worked as "public servants" most of their lives? At least with Trump, one can see that he strived to build a financial empire. Skimming tax-free money from the Clinton Foundation must be more lucrative than they let on, eh? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink!! And people want to attack Trump because they THINK he didn't pay taxes. Ahhh, the hypocrisy with the leftinistas...

Please don't excuse me just for being "new here". I don't need to have frequented these forums for years to understand human nature. I don't care what the actual topic is. My point is the original post served absolutely no purpose and was only made to generate inflammatory discussion. It is childish and petty. There are childish and petty Clinton supporters as well, don't get me wrong. I'm just asking how is this topic relevant? The answer is it isn't and you just want people to get upset and disagree with you. This is the only thread where I've seen that as your pattern. Grow up.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Of course it exists. In every country and every culture around the world. It has since long before we were here talking about it, and I am pretty certain it will remain long after we are gone.

In order to address the question as to why racism exists (in this country) you will first need to admit that it does exist ( in this country)

[Teddy B 17,252]

i don't know that it's an age difference - i'm not that much younger than you. i think bottom line, it comes down to if you're a person willing to listen to other people's experiences and if you invalidate those experiences or if you accept them for what they are. reason prevails, imo. for example, if you see an account of a person who suffered a verbal attack from a bigot on the street i feel like you would read to that story and at minimum validate that persons account by reasoning that it's happening is at least possible to have occurred. i don't think you would straight off the bat determine that person was making the whole thing up because they're butthurt trump won, case closed.

i don't think that older generations get to pick or determine how the younger generations process institutions like racism - as they have unique experiences and are coming from a point in history where we were already some where else..that being said, kids will always benefit from listening to the wisdom of those who have gone through the fire before them. i don't think it hurts any reasonable free thinking adult to consider the grievances of the kids trampling the lawn either.

in my opinion, it is different to deal with racism as we might have witnessed it growing up and how bigotry and ignorance is fanning the flames today. i feel like dealing with racism used to be about dealing with racists themselves and now its become something a bit more slippery and hard to call out.

? please don't tell me you're trying to add me to your fb/vj news source list. i will disappoint you.

The part in bold is primarily where I think the difference lies. What you may be willing to accept as an example of racism, I may not. It's not that I'm invalidating that example, it's that I may believe the example doesn't meet my definition of racism. I think there's about 20 years or so between us and that's a fairly good amount of time for people's views to become different over the same issue. I would imagine there are some things that are brought about by millenials today that you would view differently simply because you were raised in different times.

I would never try to dictate to anyone what they should think or believe. What a person thinks or believes is based on their own judgement and life experiences. Each person is different and everyone should respect that.

I have found that as time goes by and definitions are broadened and watered down from what they were originally meant to mean so they include more people and in turn more incidents fall under the definition, the incidents don't seem to mean as much and the reactions to these incidents are also watered down.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ok, great idea. Sorry if my post upset you as being the only thread that is inflammatory. Now sit back and watch as CEHST plays out before your very eyes...

Please don't excuse me just for being "new here". I don't need to have frequented these forums for years to understand human nature. I don't care what the actual topic is. My point is the original post served absolutely no purpose and was only made to generate inflammatory discussion. It is childish and petty. There are childish and petty Clinton supporters as well, don't get me wrong. I'm just asking how is this topic relevant? The answer is it isn't and you just want people to get upset and disagree with you. This is the only thread where I've seen that as your pattern. Grow up.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Ahhhh, what a dear you are. So warm and cuddly.

Racism exists because people desire to be comfortable. They want to be around others like themselves. They wish to feel at peace with themselves and the people with whom they associate. People resist change. It's instinctual, almost animal, if you will. That's why herds of animals stick together; protection and safety. You don't see too many groups of hippos with a zebra or two intermingling. Nor do you see a herd of gazelles with a tiger "overcoming prejudice" and hanging out on the plains.

We as humans have the ability to reason, to be smarter than animals of course. We should be able to see past skin color and culture and accept one another. But if you look at the human race over time, different tribes or bands of people were often at war with others. Europeans were pretty "racist" towards the original inhabitants of America (recent example). Muslims have been pretty "racist" towards folks of just about any other religion. Even today, as an American, I am treated differently when I am in another country. Why? Because I am DIFFERENT. And people are often wary (at a minimum, curious) about DIFFERENT. Sometimes, they are scared of it. Sometimes, their fear leads to self-protection. Violence before the need, even.

What I am trying to say is, racism has existed in the world for centuries. Just because you see it as a problem today does not mean it will go away in your lifetime. Or your grandkids' lifetimes. Would we all be better off it it was eradicated? Yes, we would. But regardless if you believe that we are all different since God did the whole Babel thing, or because we evolved from amoeba as different human beings of various colors and practices, the fact remains that people have a hard time accepting different.

Truth is, we are not all as different a we think, and science today allows us to see that pretty clearly. You probably missed it, but I posted what I think was a pretty enlightened video on the subject here: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/616612-biased-strangers-take-a-dna-test/

But still, we perceive different as scary/dangerous/unknown/bad/uncomfortable... Whatever. And it will always be so, IMHO, especially among the less educated. While I would absolutely love to live in a world where we are all seen as equal and human, I just don't see it happening in my lifetime. Nor my kids'.

had that one ready to go didn't ya.