Relationship goes bust

[gregoryagu 31]

So, the relationship went south. I am hoping to learn from the experience, so I am going to tell the story in the hopes someone will see something I did not.

I started a relationship with Svetlana back in February. We met through our Church group on Facebook. About a month later, I invited her to the US. We bought her a ticket, then tried to get a tourist Visa which was denied. Lost money on the ticket.

A few months later, I then went over to Chelyabinsk Russia and we spent 2 wonderful weeks together. It was as perfect as it gets.

At the end of the trip, I propose, she accepts. I then come back to the US and do the K1 Visa which after several months, gets approved. We were separated for about 5 months. Then I go back over for the interview which was scheduled for Nov 1.

But something is amiss. She almost missed meeting me at the airport. Things were good between us, but it wasn't quite the same. She had a lot of attention on her 15 year old daughter who had said several times that she did not want to come to the US. I glossed this over, thinking it would resolve naturally. The daughter speaks no English, and it was difficult to communicate with her. The mother then started saying that the daughter and I did not get along and she didn't think it was going to work. It a nutshell, in one hour, it went from us being engaged, to us not speaking. That was upsetting to me.

To me what happened is that the mother decided at some point while we were apart that she did not want to come to the US. But I was sending her money every week, and she obviously wanted to keep that up.

To be honest, it doesn't really make sense. I never once got the feeling when we were first together that she was into the relationship just for the financial benefits. She did not ask for presents or gifts, nor did a give her any but a few little things. I met her family and friends. We were in very good communication. But after we got engaged, she said that she wanted to not work (ie, she wanted me to send money to support her $150 per week), so she could study English. That made sense to me, so I said ok. In looking back, maybe that was a mistake.

I do think that she thought I was richer than I am. I make good money, but I have lots of credit card debt too. No-one in the US would call me rich. But I think to her she did think I had $50,000 in the bank. Because at one point, she did ask me for about $5,000 (to resolve an issue - a complicated story). I told her no because we were not yet married, and that DID seem like she was wanting to take advantage to me. But she was pretty upset at first about that, but then got over it.

I am trying to be frank here, because I don't want to make the same mistake again. If I have missed something obvious, please let me know. I don't think she started the relationship just for financial benefits, but at the other end, I do feel financially used.

I understand that any woman wants there man to be financially stable. But where is the line between wanting financial security, and starting/having a relationship just for the financial or Visa benefits?

I have seen many successful relationships started and continued for many many years that started with a long distance relationship. What am I doing wrong?

[Boiler 45,756]

So you have a new girlfriend?

[gregoryagu 31]

Yes, but that's another story.

[gregcrs2 1,778]

Your relationship ended less than 2 weeks ago and you have another girlfriend already?

Edited November 13, 2016 by gregcrs2

[gregoryagu 31]

Ok, here is the story.

So I am in Chelyabinsk, feeling sorry for myself about the relationship going bust.

So I got on my Church group website and starting talking with several ladies and visited one before I left in Moscow. And of course, she seems like the perfect lady. They always do. Hence this post to try to do a postmortem analysis.

[Anitafeliz 1,133]

You are fast...maybe you should try and evaluate what you are missing when getting involved with these woman.

And instead of paying someone's bills to go to school I would pay my own debt first.

I would be supporting someone when I have debt to be paid.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Anitafeliz

[Boiler 45,756]

You are fast...maybe you should try and evaluate what you are missing when getting involved with these woman.

And instead of paying someone's bills to go to school I would pay my own debt first.

I would be supporting someone when I have debt to be paid.

But she wanted to learn English?

[gregoryagu 31]

@Boiler, Yes, she wanted to learn English and she did well doing that.

@Anitafeliz, Yes, I want to learn from the experience. Gregcrs2 sent me a private email with some excellent relationship tops.

[Anitafeliz 1,133]

But she wanted to learn English?

.... not on my dime.

OP you are better off. Try to not get used this time around.

I too did two k1 I also lucked out and am with a better person so I can relate. (First k1 never made it to the us)

Good luck...?

@Anitafeliz, Yes, I want to learn from the experience. Gregcrs2 sent me a private email with some excellent relationship tops.

I hope he advices you well. Edited November 13, 2016 by Anitafeliz

[Ash.1101 1,756]

I agree, you need to step back from dating at the moment. If you need someone, then yea sure date someone, BUT DON'T MARRY THEM ASAP.

I had this big long post typed out, but honestly I got exhausted from it, so here's some points from it.


One, if you date a person with a kid, ESPECIALLY if the kid has to come to America and learn English, make sure the kid knows you and you're actually going to get a long with the kid. THIS INVOLVES FACE TIME, physically being there to interact with the kid. A 15 year old isn't going to like many suitors who come near her mom, but add in moving to a country where she can't even speak the language? No way.

Two, if the person you are dating doesn't ask for money while in the girlfriend phase, but asks while she's your fiance, LIMIT any form of finances. Some women will not ask for money until they are engaged. When you're dating, you're just a girlfriend, so it may be harder to get money out of someone, but when you're the person that will be his wife, it's almost overall assumed that you'll be given what you ask for. So if there is a change in attitude or wanting of money AFTER you get engaged to a girl, that's because you're more official, and more likely to deal with the attitude changes or more likely to give out some money. If she waited to quit her job, then she probably was after the money. She could have done a few hours of English classes a week while at home on Skype, and still held a job.

600$ (150 per week) goes a very nice ways in Russia. They have 50% less cost of living than we do in America. She could get a 3 bedroom house for what you were sending her monthly. Do your research on how much money is being sent and how it converts, you may have been able to catch the money issue right there. You can get a russian/english bilingual teacher on skype for less than 20$ per hour. Some online are only 13$. https://preply.com/en/skype/english-tutors?utm_expid=132336826-4.QOT6JfHnR3-yqTUciNky3g.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

. "Cost of living in Russia is 50.42% lower than in United States (aggregate data for all cities, rent is not taken into account). Rent in Russia is 61.31% lower than in United States (average data for all cities)."

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Russia&displayCurrency=USD

Three, do not be so eager to marry. Yes, marriage is the way you two will be together, but if you can endure a long distance then you will probably turn out okay.


_________________________________________________________________________________


When my husband and I started dating, we put down some rules.

One, that we would try our best to date for three years before marriage (AKA don't run off to the court house). (We started dating May 2013, filed K-1 April 2015, Married Feb 2016)

Two, that he wouldn't meet my daughter the FIRST time he visited, so I could get a good feel of him the first time I met him in person. I had known him online since 2010, but you NEVER know.

Three, once he did meet my daughter, he had to have a good relationship with her. My daughter has special needs, but this would have stood even if she didn't. It was VERY important to both of us that we would have a healthy family relationship, all three of us, so him having a good relationship with my daughter was VERY important and would have been a deal breaker if that didn't work out.

Four, that we would have talks about finances, how our household in general would work, our goals in 5 years, goals in 10 years, how hard we were willing to work for both of them. Religious views, political views, long conversations about our child hoods, things like that. Some people end up being incredibly thrown off when they find out that somehow, the person they married was racist, or didn't know how to manage money, or doesn't actually want to work, because they never talked about those things.


So before you marry someone, if you have ANY expectations of someone, you need to get those conversations out there. Long Distance Relationships will DIE without conversation, either when the distance is no longer there and you realize you don't really know the person, or because there was no conversing to begin with so the relationship fizzles before you can even be together again.

Some people like to say they have no expectations of their significant other, but at some point you do, or else everyone would be compatible with each other, because nothing would be expected of the other person.

Weirdly enough, LDR's with genuine people can be the strongest of relationships, because all you can do is talk, and when all you can do is talk, you tend to learn a lot about each other.


You can seek out a girlfriend, but DO NOT seek out a wife. Some people will say they date looking for "marriage material", well if that's the case then don't rush in. There's no reason too, if they're marriage material to start, then generally they will stay marriage material for a while.

If you don't want a LDR, then don't date women from other countries since you'll have no choice but to be in a long distance relationship with them.


I wish you the best of luck, and try to take things a bit slower. Date someone you actual have some feelings for, and if you have feelings for anyone that's semi-attractive to you, then get to know the people you want to date first, BEFORE actually dating them. Some people are simply attracted to... everything, so they go from relationship to relationship without a beat, not realizing that attraction does not always equate to a good relationship if EVERYTHING else that is in the foundation of a relationship is missing.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Ash.1101

[millefleur 5,047]

Some good tips here. I think it might help if you also be really honest about your financial situation up front. A lot of Russians just assume Americans are rolling in the money, especially since the ruble tanked two years ago. Make it clear that you are not Daddy Warbucks. I know that might be kind of awkward, but if you put it off it will just create confusion later.

It is popular for Russian women to want to be housewives, but honestly, that's more of a trend in only rich families nowadays. A lot of Russian women work and its pretty much the norm here now. If they have a seemingly good job but just suddenly show an interest in leaving it because they met you, that might be kind of a red flag.

And hey, I'm an English teacher here. She won't learn anything unless she has a native speaker teacher, which I'm assuming is almost non-existent in Chelyabinsk. It would just be a waste of money. If any Russian woman tells you she needs money to learn English, tell them: "I'm a native speaker. Write to me, talk to me...you'll learn much more than with a mediocre course there with a Russian teacher." And if she did find a native speaker teacher there, be prepared to pay big bucks for it because native speaker teachers are getting harder and harder to find here, and thus the prices are through the roof.

Edited November 13, 2016 by millefleur

[gregoryagu 31]

@ash/@mille, Thank you so much. This helps greatly

Greg

Edited November 13, 2016 by gregoryagu

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

I didn't get to read the entire thread yet but from the original post I see 2 red flags right away.

she did ask me for about $5,000 (to resolve an issue - a complicated story). I told her no because we were not yet married, and that DID seem like she was wanting to take advantage to me. But she was pretty upset at first about that, but then got over it.

$5000 is a significant amount of cash even in the US, in Russia many people have to work for well over a year to make that much money. Asking for 5 grands when you're not even married and don't live together would make me think about golddigger possibility.

after we got engaged, she said that she wanted to not work (ie, she wanted me to send money to support her $150 per week), so she could study English.

Another golddigger flag. I understand if you're rich and she is poor some financial help may be involved to make her living situation more comfortable, but asking you to pay her $600/month (more than average professional with college degree makes in Russia) so she doesn't have to work anymore at all just after engagement? Run, run, run. There're tons of free or very affordable online tools and software to learn English so it doesn't cost that much and nobody studying language like 8 hours a day so it sounds to me like she just wanted to be unemployed while you're paying for her needs and wants.

- Victor from Russia

[Gretch 11]

"I never once got the feeling when we were first together that she was into the relationship just for the financial benefits. She did not ask for presents or gifts, nor did a give her any but a few little things."

I understand this, but everyone has the same feeling. Almost nobody is going to be upfront that they're looking for money. The marriage (or even just girlfriend/boyfriend) game is a "long con" and the other party knows it. They first have to convince you of their sincerity before they go in for the money. Not asking for presents or gifts is exactly what they do.

Unfortunately, it's also what someone who is sincere will do, of course! But in general, I think the other person will "drop" you if they realize you're not going to give up the money and look for an easier mark. Someone who is sincere will stick around.

I don't mean to say that all of these men and women are cold-hearted con artists, though some are. (Also, in many countries there's no stigma to marrying for money; it's considered a smart move.) They might be an average person who thinks "this is a nice guy/nice woman, and it would be great to see some of that American money". If both parties have the same understanding, no harm no foul. But expecting a regular salary is DEFINITELY too much. Actually, saying "I can't afford that, sorry" is a good test of the person.

I notice that you met her through church, and while you didn't say anything further about that and I don't want to make assumptions, some people do have the idea that someone who is religious (especially of the same denomination) is automatically going to be a "good" person and won't treat a fellow church member badly, but that's the wrong assumption to make--people are people.

Good luck with your new relationship but as others have said, be careful. And I don't know anything about you--and will freely say that before my husband, I also had a boyfriend in a (different) foreign country--but you may want to do some self-searching and ask yourself why you're looking for a wife in Russia. What's preventing you from having a relationship with a woman who's already in the US? (I'm not asking for an answer, just throwing that out there.)

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

gregoryagu

Probably not my business but because of this thread and another your thread about obtaining B2 visa for you new girlfriend I would like to throw my 2 cents in.

You just got out of relationship with a possible golddigger and now you write in another thread that your new girlfriend has no property in Russia in her 40's, no regular job, only some small business with not much of profit, no substantial savings etc. and you're already willing to throw money into her bank account for the embassy, pay for her weekend vacation in 3rd country, pay for the lawyer to help her with B2 visa. I don't want to sound rude or discourage you too much but throwing so much money in the new LDR right from the start with a foreign girlfriend who is willing to accept it all looks as risky to me as gambling. Helping her with tickets and covering her reasonable expenses while she visits you are fine, but myself I wouldn't go much further with spending money until long distance relationship is at least established for a while, not a few weeks (you broke up with your fiancee very recently, right?) and has a stable good tendencies.

Is there any way you could simply visit her in Russia and avoid sending her a lot of money or spending them on 3rd party expenses just to help her with visa?

And I want to double Ash.1101 - do not jump right into marriage. Marrying someone you're dating just for a few months is a gamble and with LDR you have to go even slower because you don't have as much communication and in person meet ups as you would have with a local girlfriend. I would say wait at least half a year even if everything goes perfect before you even consider filing K1 and while it's being processed don't relax and keep watching how your relationship goes, meet more than once. Sometimes it's better to wait longer than jump forward and bite an onion.

- Victor from Russia

Edited November 14, 2016 by Amy_and_Victor