Considering divorce

[hateadminforms 19]

Here a clash of cultures and having sat in the middle of a "family storm" and I mean storm as we are not all white in our extended 30 or so family, I think the "honeymoon" of this relationship has ended. Not all are speaking, friended or active now on Facebook it got that bad during the election!

Yet, a future wedding, funeral or visit as "one passes by" we meet again.

From all I have read here, there is a mis-match of expectations, finance (you kicking him out of your apartment), maturity (some men never grow up especially when with old friends) and some pressure as directions are mis-aligned.

Having been through a divorce a number of years back, yet retaining and deliberately so a good relationship with my ex even today, I know how important it is to keep open the communication channels, talk, leave leaflets or articles around to be read without asking for them to be picked up and to give space.

Why?

It works and I would have been far less picky, controlling and aggressive saying things I should not have ( since apologised for). Change can take years - Mary Berry the celebrity cook on a recent show:

In the War (WW2) we all gave up sugar to have a pudding on Saturdays, since then I have never had sugar in my drinks, yet after 45 years of marriage, I have tried to get him to give up without any luck! So when my husband makes me a cup of tea he always asks me "do you want sugar?" ............. How come he has not learnt yet I do not know !!!!

So even a really happy marriage has a few problems the years cannot fix !!

I could not edit the post so here is what I was writing and not the draft above:

There is a clash of cultures and expectations here, I know I have just sat through a "family storm" and I mean storm as we are not all white in our extended 30 or so family. The election opened divisions and with some my "honeymoon" relationship has ended. Not all are speaking, even de-activated Facebook it got that bad during the election!

The .gif, sms, text, messages and telephone calls were a real mix, from the far left to the far right, with a nephew or three "bombing" family members to get a reaction.

Yet, a future wedding, funeral or visit as "one passes by" we meet again.

From all I have read here, there is a mis-match of expectations, realities, finance (you kicking him out of your apartment), maturity (some men never grow up especially when with old friends) and some pressure as directions are mis-aligned.

Having been through a divorce a number of years back, yet retaining and deliberately so a good relationship with my ex even today, I know how important it is to keep open the communication channels, talk, leave leaflets or articles around to be read without asking for them to be picked up and read, plus to give space.

Why? It works and I am far less picky, controlling and aggressive saying things I should not have ( then have to apologise for).

Change can take years - Mary Berry the celebrity cook on a recent show:

In the War (WW2) we all gave up sugar to have a pudding on Saturdays, since then I have never had sugar in my drinks. Yet after 45 years of marriage, I have tried repeatedly to get my husband to give up sugar in his drinks without any luck!

But even today, when my husband makes me a cup of tea he always asks me "do you want sugar?" ............. How come he has not learnt yet I do not know !!!!

So even a really happy marriage has a few "training needs" or matters outstanding the years cannot fix !!

[Ortolan 381]

I guess you have to decide if this guy is worth any more of your life. Seems like we have forever when we're young...but we don't. Your life clock is ticking, and I imagine if you go on from here, in a few years you won't be pained anymore by your decision.

You can start assembling your paperwork now, quietly, and then divorce and Remove Conditions on your own. That's probably what I would do in your position. In fact, just making a decision ("I stay" or "I go") can help you feel stronger.

Best of luck to you, and sorry you had to hear and read stuff like that from someone you wanted to depend on.

[Katherine93 30]

Good morning! Thank you all so so much for your support and kind words. It really means a lot to me. It's comforting to know that I'm not just overreacting, being dramatic, or crazy, as he claims that I am.

When I got home last night, we sat down and talked for nearly 2 hours. I explained to him why I have been sad after the election, and that I wish I had had support from him. It took a while for him to sympathize a little with what is happening in this country right now, but he said that he couldn't really relate because it doesn't really affect him. He found it hard to believe how some immigrants, women and minorities are suffering due to this election, and thinks that it's just the media exaggerating, despite me telling him stories happening in real life around me. He said that white people founded this country, and black people were transported here as slaves, and immigrants should be grateful to be here. A lot of his racist and sexist comments really pissed me off but we were able to keep the conversation peaceful. We went back and forth with our different opinions and values, and just could not agree with each other. I told him that I'm not upset just because we hold different opinions regarding political issues, I'm upset because we apparently have very different fundamental moral values.

We were able to make peace. He said that until we are apart, he won't give up. Being in the middle of AOS definitely does not help with the situation. We agreed that we will wait till after the interview that's coming up. And if we are still not happy, we will end the marriage on good terms. I feel like that we have both been in denial that we've just become very different people, and the arguments back and forth are exhausting for both of us due to our different goals and values.

[Mehnya 2]

Good morning! Thank you all so so much for your support and kind words. It really means a lot to me. It's comforting to know that I'm not just overreacting, being dramatic, or crazy, as he claims that I am.

When I got home last night, we sat down and talked for nearly 2 hours. I explained to him why I have been sad after the election, and that I wish I had had support from him. It took a while for him to sympathize a little with what is happening in this country right now, but he said that he couldn't really relate because it doesn't really affect him. He found it hard to believe how some immigrants, women and minorities are suffering due to this election, and thinks that it's just the media exaggerating, despite me telling him stories happening in real life around me. He said that white people founded this country, and black people were transported here as slaves, and immigrants should be grateful to be here. A lot of his racist and sexist comments really pissed me off but we were able to keep the conversation peaceful. We went back and forth with our different opinions and values, and just could not agree with each other. I told him that I'm not upset just because we hold different opinions regarding political issues, I'm upset because we apparently have very different fundamental moral values.

We were able to make peace. He said that until we are apart, he won't give up. Being in the middle of AOS definitely does not help with the situation. We agreed that we will wait till after the interview that's coming up. And if we are still not happy, we will end the marriage on good terms. I feel like that we have both been in denial that we've just become very different people, and the arguments back and forth are exhausting for both of us due to our different goals and values.

First, I really hope it can work out for both of you.

It is obviously that your marriage was based on pure and wonderful love between two people.

The way he reacted makes me think that he is a really good person and husband over all.

Because he knows even if you two cannot work out as a couple, he still has responsibility for helping you deal with Green Card and stay in U.S.

I think he really cares about you, your work and your future.

I could totally imagine a bad man and husband will not care about your Green Card or even try to hurt/attack/'revenge' your by not assisting you.

So, I really think you two can work out or at least break up peacefully.

I feel like when you two fell in love with each other, he was just a simple student, did not have many plans about having a family, being successful

and so on. Maybe you were the same way? Just want to find out what you want.

Nevertheless, the priceless thing for you two was that you two love each other. Even though he might be a sexist/against immigrant, you were perfect for him and he was able to love you with all the prejudice he has. I think one of his problem is that, his brain tells him that he does not like women/immigrant (Maybe it is because of the way he was raised up or the environment among his friends), but if he actually gets to know somebody (Best example to be you), he will realize that not every woman/immigrant is the same, he might even like woman/immigrant.

I wonder if it will help him change his opinions towards women/immigrants by letting him meet with more. I guess he does not even know many other women or immigrants in person. Once he realizes he was just holding prejudice towards women and immigrants, he might change.

The other issue for you guys is about ambition towards career and desire to advance. I think if you requires/needs a husband to have ambition and desire to advance himself all the time like you, the only way to deal with that is to change him or find somebody who meets with your requests.

If he cannot change himself and you do want to be with him, why not try let it go? Lower your standards for your husband?

I feel you are a really strong and independent female. I do not think you want your husband to advance himself in career so you can get more money from him. As long as it does not bother you that he does not make much money or have a wonderful job, I can totally see you two live happily together forever. From what you said, I feel that he likes to have a simple and easy life. And he is a pretty nice guy that he does not have problem with you being 'too ambitious' or try to change you to lower your desire to advance (I think what he does is called 子所不欲勿施于人).

Of course if you have high standards for your life quality and you want him to provide you that, I do not see it work out for you.

I really hope I can help you even just a little bit. If I said anything rude or incorrect, please forgive me.

I do wish the best for you two. Good luck!

[Katherine93 30]

First, I really hope it can work out for both of you.

It is obviously that your marriage was based on pure and wonderful love between two people.

The way he reacted makes me think that he is a really good person and husband over all.

Because he knows even if you two cannot work out as a couple, he still has responsibility for helping you deal with Green Card and stay in U.S.

I think he really cares about you, your work and your future.

I could totally imagine a bad man and husband will not care about your Green Card or even try to hurt/attack/'revenge' your by not assisting you.

So, I really think you two can work out or at least break up peacefully.

I feel like when you two fell in love with each other, he was just a simple student, did not have many plans about having a family, being successful

and so on. Maybe you were the same way? Just want to find out what you want.

Nevertheless, the priceless thing for you two was that you two love each other. Even though he might be a sexist/against immigrant, you were perfect for him and he was able to love you with all the prejudice he has. I think one of his problem is that, his brain tells him that he does not like women/immigrant (Maybe it is because of the way he was raised up or the environment among his friends), but if he actually gets to know somebody (Best example to be you), he will realize that not every woman/immigrant is the same, he might even like woman/immigrant.

I wonder if it will help him change his opinions towards women/immigrants by letting him meet with more. I guess he does not even know many other women or immigrants in person. Once he realizes he was just holding prejudice towards women and immigrants, he might change.

The other issue for you guys is about ambition towards career and desire to advance. I think if you requires/needs a husband to have ambition and desire to advance himself all the time like you, the only way to deal with that is to change him or find somebody who meets with your requests.

If he cannot change himself and you do want to be with him, why not try let it go? Lower your standards for your husband?

I feel you are a really strong and independent female. I do not think you want your husband to advance himself in career so you can get more money from him. As long as it does not bother you that he does not make much money or have a wonderful job, I can totally see you two live happily together forever. From what you said, I feel that he likes to have a simple and easy life. And he is a pretty nice guy that he does not have problem with you being 'too ambitious' or try to change you to lower your desire to advance (I think what he does is called 子所不欲勿施于人).

Of course if you have high standards for your life quality and you want him to provide you that, I do not see it work out for you.

I really hope I can help you even just a little bit. If I said anything rude or incorrect, please forgive me.

I do wish the best for you two. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply!

He is a really sweet husband. Sometimes I think that he is probably what every girl wants in a boyfriend/husband - sweet, caring, romantic, sensitive...and that's why I fell for him. When we first met, he just graduated from high school (gap year) and I was in my sophomore/junior year of college. Neither of us knew what we wanted in life and we just enjoyed each other's company. I think it's from my graduation and when I started a professional life that we started to grow apart. We do love each other, but we have a lot less in common. Sometimes I don't know what to talk about with him. We are on different stages of life and I guess want different things (i.e. I want to advance in my career as fast as I can and he is taking his time).

We are financially independent and normally would go half on everything. My worries are by the time he is able to graduate from his bachelor's, I will already have a master's degree plus 2-3 years of working experience and very likely promotion and raise. I may want to buy a house and travel the world. I'm not sure if he will even have a job by then not to mention all the student debt. But honestly, I'm okay with my partner being a little behind. I guess it's his lack of motivation and goals that really worries me. If he was an ambitious hard worker, then I would know that even if he is a little behind now, he would catch up sooner or later. But I really don't see that in him. Over the past year or two I tried my best motivating him and teaching him time management skills and helping him sign up for classes, networking with companies, etc. etc. he tries but it's hard for him and I don't think that he really wants to from the bottom of his heart.

And I do agree with what you said about lowering my standard for him. I have realized that it's not fair for me to hold my own standards against someone else. I tried to let it go and am still trying. It's hard. I think being raised in a Chinese family with parents as professors I grew up with high expectations for myself and my spouse. And for him, being raised in a small town in Louisiana, parents never went to college and never expected him to. We really have different mindsets about life...it's either that he has to change or I have to get over myself. Sometimes love is just not enough :/

[Villanelle 4,122]

Katherine-

I am very sorry for your situation. I am not going to comment on the personal aspects of the relationship. I think many others have already offered you support and advice on that side of the issue. I am however VERY concerned about the immigration aspect of your situation which no one is addressing. You seem to think you and your husband can just do whatever you want as long as you are both okay with it and thats not how it works....

You do NOT have a GC right now. Your initial question to the forum was what would happen if you went to the interview in December and then got divorced soon afterwards because at the time you posted you were unhappy and did not know if the marriage was going to work out much longer.

Since your first post things have changed. Things are always changing so they can change again between now and December- but as of right now- you and your husband have talked and decided the marriage is NOT working but you are going to stay together until after the interview and then decide if you want to divorce or not.

You need to be aware this is getting into the area of marriage fraud territory. The definition of what makes a marriage bonafide or legitimate is debatable and would ultimately be decided by the Officer reviewing your case and upheld or over ruled by an immigration judge; so neither I nor anyone on this forum can tell you exactly how they are going to perceive your relationship. But I can tell you it is considered FRAUD to enter into or maintain a relationship for immigration benefits.

Its a very complex issue because with a marriage involving USCs and aliens immigration benefits are extended. The Officer has to determine in a way if it was a motivation or a perk. You can stay together for the benefit of your kids or to try to work on the relationship, but you can not stay together to generate evidence or to meet deadlines for interviews. That is 'working the system' and a big no no.

The more you talk and respond to members here the more you seem to lean towards the 'we are waiting for the interview' aspect of it. And if you do that in the interview you will be denied. You can NOT be denied in the interview for being unhappy or admitting you have issues or will be or are in counseling.

So going back to your first question- some people do separate right after getting their conditional GC. Usually the divorce takes a while to be finalized. USCIS will look at the date of separation though. The closer it is to the date the card was issued the more suspicious it looks. However they do look at the whole picture- how long you were married, how long you dated before, what lead to the break up, the divorce paperwork etc.

It would serve you best to be honest in the interview and be upfront that you are having issues and not sure if the marriage is going to work out. That you have found you have different long term goals, that you got into this too young and have different views on certain things that didnt really come to light until this election that divided the country. That you are both open to counseling and truly do want to make it work but can not stay together if either one of you are unhappy.

Having this noted in your file will help you when or if you ROC with a divorce waiver soon after receiving the GC. When you tell them of the difficulties in the marriage they will question you about your intentions of staying together (ie if it was for the GC)- which is where you must be aware they are looking for indications that you only stayed together FOR the GC. Please be careful in what you say. I do not believe you are simply staying for the GC and I do not want you to accidentally talk yourself into a denial.

Why dont you set up an appt with a therapist now for you and your husband? It can take a week or two to get an appt. At least then when you go for the interview you can say you have one scheduled. You can find a therapist using your insurance handbook or using psychology todays doctor finder tool online. You can search by area/doctor type/insurance etc.

Best of luck to you and if you can please come back and let us know how it went! xoxox

[Katherine93 30]

Katherine-

I am very sorry for your situation. I am not going to comment on the personal aspects of the relationship. I think many others have already offered you support and advice on that side of the issue. I am however VERY concerned about the immigration aspect of your situation which no one is addressing. You seem to think you and your husband can just do whatever you want as long as you are both okay with it and thats not how it works....

You do NOT have a GC right now. Your initial question to the forum was what would happen if you went to the interview in December and then got divorced soon afterwards because at the time you posted you were unhappy and did not know if the marriage was going to work out much longer.

Since your first post things have changed. Things are always changing so they can change again between now and December- but as of right now- you and your husband have talked and decided the marriage is NOT working but you are going to stay together until after the interview and then decide if you want to divorce or not.

You need to be aware this is getting into the area of marriage fraud territory. The definition of what makes a marriage bonafide or legitimate is debatable and would ultimately be decided by the Officer reviewing your case and upheld or over ruled by an immigration judge; so neither I nor anyone on this forum can tell you exactly how they are going to perceive your relationship. But I can tell you it is considered FRAUD to enter into or maintain a relationship for immigration benefits.

Its a very complex issue because with a marriage involving USCs and aliens immigration benefits are extended. The Officer has to determine in a way if it was a motivation or a perk. You can stay together for the benefit of your kids or to try to work on the relationship, but you can not stay together to generate evidence or to meet deadlines for interviews. That is 'working the system' and a big no no.

The more you talk and respond to members here the more you seem to lean towards the 'we are waiting for the interview' aspect of it. And if you do that in the interview you will be denied. You can NOT be denied in the interview for being unhappy or admitting you have issues or will be or are in counseling.

So going back to your first question- some people do separate right after getting their conditional GC. Usually the divorce takes a while to be finalized. USCIS will look at the date of separation though. The closer it is to the date the card was issued the more suspicious it looks. However they do look at the whole picture- how long you were married, how long you dated before, what lead to the break up, the divorce paperwork etc.

It would serve you best to be honest in the interview and be upfront that you are having issues and not sure if the marriage is going to work out. That you have found you have different long term goals, that you got into this too young and have different views on certain things that didnt really come to light until this election that divided the country. That you are both open to counseling and truly do want to make it work but can not stay together if either one of you are unhappy.

Having this noted in your file will help you when or if you ROC with a divorce waiver soon after receiving the GC. When you tell them of the difficulties in the marriage they will question you about your intentions of staying together (ie if it was for the GC)- which is where you must be aware they are looking for indications that you only stayed together FOR the GC. Please be careful in what you say. I do not believe you are simply staying for the GC and I do not want you to accidentally talk yourself into a denial.

Why dont you set up an appt with a therapist now for you and your husband? It can take a week or two to get an appt. At least then when you go for the interview you can say you have one scheduled. You can find a therapist using your insurance handbook or using psychology todays doctor finder tool online. You can search by area/doctor type/insurance etc.

Best of luck to you and if you can please come back and let us know how it went! xoxox

Hmm wow I never thought about that. I honestly don't even know what would be the best to do, both relationship and immigration... I definitely have a lot to think about and I'm gonna have to spend some time alone (not like separating, just taking some time to clear my head). I will be sure to keep you guys updated. Thanks for your suggestions!!

[RobertM54 36]

I read the first and last pages of this thread. If the link is not allowed, then search for Hidden Keys to Loving Relationships.

This material is a little dated and spiritually based but you may want to consider it.

http://store.smalley.cc/products/keys-to-loving-relationships-dvd-series?variant=8760807365

If the two of you view the entire series, generally agree with what he has to say, and follow his recommendations, then IMHO, you have a good chance.

If you have a VHS tape player, you an get the tapes on Amazon for <$10

https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Keys-Loving-Relationships-Smalley/dp/B00076PSZ4

A story. I mentored a young man in our company who came to me at age 25. He had been drifting in his life but his father was a superstar for us so my boss asked me to work with him. He is 27 now and well on his way to becoming a superstar in his own right. Another story - my nephew came to me at age 20 with his life in shambles. Slowly but surely he pulled things together. Now he is 30, a recognized professional in his field, and has a great career.

Men in America have the luxury of growing up slowly. If the other things you say about him and your relationship are true, then I strongly counsel patience and perseverance.

Will you ever find the qualities that you love in your husband in a man who is as driven and successful as you? There are a lot of successful lonely women in their 30s in the USA.