Violent Democrats Protest in California and Elsewhere

[smilesammich 10,727]

Look, I get that you are butt hurt, and having difficulty following simple logic.

"FREE" education for all means that taxpayers will ultimately pay for it. Why should I have to pay for the education of other children, when no one is paying for mine or my kids? Is THAT clear enough for you?

and the children that are educated on taxpayer funds go on to obtain jobs and in turn pay for the education of those coming up behind them. that's how a country keeps its population educated and competitive. what we have right now is a system that rewards a student's or a student's family's ability to pay, not their efforts or propensity to excel in their chosen field.

there are quite a few things clear to me from your comments. i can't repeat them here.

[millefleur 5,047]

Because I already am. By the time it ever got here (free education), it would be too late for me.

Don't get me wrong, I am all about federal student aid in the form of grants and scholarships. Work to earn one, good on you. And I think there should be some restraints put into play at universities and colleges that pay outlandish salaries and charge outrageous tuition rates. But to just hand over an education for free? What would that mean for the job force in 5-10 years? Having a degree would become meaningless, as everyone would have one.

For a lot of areas, especially outside the STEM realm, that already is the case. There are degrees being offered in areas where people don't even need them and in fields where historically degrees didn't even exist, in professions that were once apprentice/master-like, where experience was the only thing that mattered. It's already become meaningless in many ways. Maybe you don't know many Millennials, but having a useless degree is kind of a thing in our generation...unfortunately.

I think free education is a great idea, but the whole system needs to be overhauled and the places need to be limited and certain degrees just need to be ditched. That's my view. Unfortunately my generation has already dug themselves into a hole but amassing so much student debt by accumulating so many useless degrees, it's going to be hard to get out of it for us, but I hope the system will change for the next generation not to follow in our footsteps.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

For a lot of areas, especially outside the STEM realm, that already is the case. There are degrees being offered in areas where people don't even need them and in fields where historically degrees didn't even exist, in professions that were once apprentice/master-like, where experience was the only thing that mattered. It's already become meaningless in many ways. Maybe you don't know many Millennials, but having a useless degree is kind of a thing in our generation...unfortunately.

I think free education is a great idea, but the whole system needs to be overhauled and the places need to be limited and certain degrees just need to be ditched. That's my view. Unfortunately my generation has already dug themselves into a hole but amassing so much student debt by accumulating so many useless degrees, it's going to be hard to get out of it for us, but I hope the system will change for the next generation not to follow in our footsteps.

I agreed. I have no issue with free education for STEM degrees, not some useless degrees that ended up working at starbucks.

Or people who refuse to face the real world and keep staying in schools doing degree after degree which can't get them a good job then 'oh poor me' attitude.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Well, allow me to "repeat them here" for you. I'll gladly make them clear for you. I had a couple of tiny scholarships when I started college, based on my performance in HS. I coupled those with some Pell Grants, and then a ROTC scholarship, and 4 part-time jobs while I worked towards my engineering degree. All of this without a dollar from my parents, because they had 3 kids at home still, and could not afford to help me out.

A free education for all will NOT keep a country educated and populated. Kids who get a free ride tend not to pay as much attention, not get as educated, as those who really WANT it and are willing to work for it. The value of a degree today is already much less than when I got mine. The cost, higher. THAT is where we should focus our efforts as Americans, capping the already ridiculous costs.

Those who want, will get... If they are willing to work hard for what they want. Those who have it handed to them become spoiled, and just whine more about why they aren't given more.

You can take your fake flower and put it somewhere more meaningful.

and the children that are educated on taxpayer funds go on to obtain jobs and in turn pay for the education of those coming up behind them. that's how a country keeps its population educated and competitive. what we have right now is a system that rewards a student's or a student's family's ability to pay, not their efforts or propensity to excel in their chosen field.

there are quite a few things clear to me from your comments. i can't repeat them here.

[millefleur 5,047]

I agreed. I have no issue with free education for STEM degrees, not some useless degrees that ended up working at starbucks.

Or people who refuse to face the real world and keep staying in schools doing degree after degree which can't get them a good job then 'oh poor me' attitude.

I can't blame my generation entirely for picking the wrong degrees because there was a lot of hype pre-2008 that any college degree would just immediately result in a successful job (my parents certainly believed this), for example you would work at a publishing company in a big city....welp, after the 2008 crash plus the death of print media, a lot of those jobs simply just dried up overnight. It was a double dose of bad luck for people who had hoped to get jobs in that field, and print publishing was a massive (and stable) industry before the Internet with jobs in many "soft" fields like art/design, writing/English, even history and other humanities areas. While some have transitioned well into the digital age, others ended up re-starting their careers in totally new fields where work was easier to find, thus rending the degree useless or obsolete. The "Old Economy Steve" meme had a lot of truth in it for those caught in the crossfire of the Tech Revolution and the 2008 Crash.

A lot of universities into the late 2000's were still teaching people print media/publishing style skills that just more or less died out by the time we graduated. All the more reason why the system needs to be overhauled, so as not to sell people a degree in a field that has pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. Very few people really predicted the insane surge of student loans thus leading to so many more degrees on the market, the economic crisis and the rise of the Internet in terms of it taking over so many fields/markets. Heck, I remember the days when people were paranoid about putting their picture/real name and info online....now practically those two things alone are billion dollar industries.

[yuna628 9,758]

Well, allow me to "repeat them here" for you. I'll gladly make them clear for you. I had a couple of tiny scholarships when I started college, based on my performance in HS. I coupled those with some Pell Grants, and then a ROTC scholarship, and 4 part-time jobs while I worked towards my engineering degree. All of this without a dollar from my parents, because they had 3 kids at home still, and could not afford to help me out.

A free education for all will NOT keep a country educated and populated. Kids who get a free ride tend not to pay as much attention, not get as educated, as those who really WANT it and are willing to work for it. The value of a degree today is already much less than when I got mine. The cost, higher. THAT is where we should focus our efforts as Americans, capping the already ridiculous costs.

Those who want, will get... If they are willing to work hard for what they want. Those who have it handed to them become spoiled, and just whine more about why they aren't given more.

You can take your fake flower and put it somewhere more meaningful.

Are you paying for your kids college education currently?

[smilesammich 10,727]

Well, allow me to "repeat them here" for you. I'll gladly make them clear for you. I had a couple of tiny scholarships when I started college, based on my performance in HS. I coupled those with some Pell Grants, and then a ROTC scholarship, and 4 part-time jobs while I worked towards my engineering degree. All of this without a dollar from my parents, because they had 3 kids at home still, and could not afford to help me out.

A free education for all will NOT keep a country educated and populated. Kids who get a free ride tend not to pay as much attention, not get as educated, as those who really WANT it and are willing to work for it. The value of a degree today is already much less than when I got mine. The cost, higher. THAT is where we should focus our efforts as Americans, capping the already ridiculous costs.

Those who want, will get... If they are willing to work hard for what they want. Those who have it handed to them become spoiled, and just whine more about why they aren't given more.

You can take your fake flower and put it somewhere more meaningful.

free and accessible doesn't mean mandatory or compulsory. and personally, i don't care about your degree or how you got it. all you're doing right now is showing how absurdly out of touch you are.

Are you paying for your kids college education currently?

given them kids a free ride he is. hope that doesn't come back to bite him.

[OriZ 3,157]

Continuing my current role on VJ as the one who likes to dig up and bring back old, but relevant threads from the past...I couldn't help but remember that we have already had this conversation, in depth, here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/589329-go-back-to-auschwitz-and-go-back-to-africa-yelled-outside-trump-rally/page-1

It starts with the usual politics, and Trump stuff like the ones I just mentioned yesterday(in regards to the left's attitude), but then it goes into a quite intelligent conversation actually on college tuition. Lotsa thoughts and suggestions there, by me and others, including possible solutions to the point LFEHFN just made.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

By all means, elaborate on how out of touch I am. I would like to hear how you think I am not very "current".

free and accessible doesn't mean mandatory or compulsory. and personally, i don't care about your degree or how you got it. all you're doing right now is showing how absurdly out of touch you are.

[smilesammich 10,727]

By all means, elaborate on how out of touch I am. I would like to hear how you think I am not very "current".

this statement displays your lack of grasp of the situation pretty well. do some legitimate research, that's my only suggestion for you.

I paid my own way thru college. Yeah, it was cheaper when I went, but I also made a lot less back then. It can be done, if one is willing to do it. I am all for more financial aid other than student loans. I just don't want to pay for it myself. Call me selfish, but I paid for mine, I shouldn't have to pay for your kids' education.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Why should anyone be forced to pay for someone else's education. More free stuff.

Join the service or make some Avenue

Available for them to earn it.

[smilesammich 10,727]

such shortsightedness, tsk tsk. not a good look for a fledgling democracy.

[yuna628 9,758]

Why should anyone be forced to pay for someone else's education. More free stuff.

Join the service or make some Avenue

Available for them to earn it.

Yes, why do we have any education? Those PreK-12 should pay for it themselves. And why should he have to pay for his kid's college? It's taking away money he could spend elsewhere.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Yes, why do we have any education? Those PreK-12 should pay for it themselves. And why should he have to pay for his kid's college? It's taking away money he could spend elsewhere.

Well most kindergarten age kids are not yet capable of providing some form of service.

The military has great programs to earn a degree

[smilesammich 10,727]

Well most kindergarten age kids are not yet capable of providing some form of service.

The military has great programs to earn a degree

suicide rate/opiate addiction in vets and the abysmal state of the VA and you think i'm going to encourage my son to go military for college money? with republican 'kings of war' in control for the net four years? yeah, no.