Why not scrap AOS through VWP or ESTA , B1/B2 since we all want fairness?

[MacUK 983]

sorry but no. Doubt it will happen or be encouraged. As a genuine victim of change of circumference, I am happy forAOS from b1/2

I don't want to offend but from what I've seen on this forum is that generally the only people who are positive about AOS are people who have benefited from it. Understandable really.

I wonder how many cases where AOS are for genuine unforeseen reasons like yourself compared to those who have the miraculous change of heart before getting out of the airport.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

I don't want to offend but from what I've seen on this forum is that generally the only people who are positive about AOS are people who have benefited from it. Understandable really.

I wonder how many cases where AOS are for genuine unforeseen reasons like yourself compared to those who have the miraculous change of heart before getting out of the airport.

Having considered it while my husband was in America on the VWP, I don't see how it is feasible for most cases without some good pre-planning, lack of any sort of life at home, or some thoughtlessness as to the consequences. How does an adult with a job, an apartment/house, or a car just decide to up and adjust status and leave everyone back home to clean up after them*?

I'd say off the top of my head that most cases are pre-planned and then followed by people who would never get a B1/B2 if they weren't eligible for VWP because they have no ties to their home country and just decide to stay.

*This applies mostly to people with non emergent situations.

I'd be curious to see the 5-10 year survival rate of marriages by AOS from VWP versus CR/IR-1. I have a theory that patient people who follow laws tend to make better marriages, but it is just that.

[Lemonslice 4,859]

I don't want to offend but from what I've seen on this forum is that generally the only people who are positive about AOS are people who have benefited from it. Understandable really.

I wonder how many cases where AOS are for genuine unforeseen reasons like yourself compared to those who have the miraculous change of heart before getting out of the airport.

I went the CR1 way and I am all for allowing/encouraging/promoting inland processing and AOS for all. Scammers gonna scam... AOS or not - we see it daily here; so why not offer an easier way to all the legitimate couples?

Personally, I was in no hurry to move to the USA, I was also able to visit a couple of time per month, so I didn't mind the wait.

[Transborderwife 4,666]

I don't want to offend but from what I've seen on this forum is that generally the only people who are positive about AOS are people who have benefited from it. Understandable really.

I wonder how many cases where AOS are for genuine unforeseen reasons like yourself compared to those who have the miraculous change of heart before getting out of the airport.

i absolutely see your point. I've told my story on here before and i don't believe I've ever had anyone say that I shouldn't have been allowed aos as it was a medical reason. without it we'd either have had to split the family early in a young child's life and risk a waiver or all move to Canada and lose my stepdaughter here. i was fortunate that myloose ends back home were fairly easy to look after.

[KierenHby 899]

i absolutely see your point. I've told my story on here before and i don't believe I've ever had anyone say that I shouldn't have been allowed aos as it was a medical reason. without it we'd either have had to split the family early in a young child's life and risk a waiver or all move to Canada and lose my stepdaughter here. i was fortunate that myloose ends back home were fairly easy to look after.

That's the exception rather than the rule.

While there are true and genuine emergencies, a majority of AOSers probably enter with intent, which is hard to prove (and no data to back up that claim), hence the spirited debate. How many eventual AOSers enter after having claimed 'strong ties to home' at the interview and suitcases stuffed for a 'short-term' visit?

[JFH 12,190]

No matter how watertight they make the process, there will always be abuse. Even the CR-1 track is no stranger to fraudulent applications. Right now in this forum we have threads from LPRs who are spending the bare minimum amount of time in the country and maximising and extending their re-entry permits to petition for other family members.

I also don't believe that a working person with an apartment, a car, financial commitments and so on can just change their mind on a trip to see a loved one. There absolutely must have been some forward planning in most, if not all, cases. Yes, there are medical emergencies, as we know from Transborderwife's case. If the health of my baby was at stake I'd abandon a job, house, car, everything to save the child's life. But some of the reasons we see on here are ridiculous. Sure I've been tempted to stay with my husband. Who wouldn't be? Leaving him behind to fly home alone and spend x weeks apart from him is the absolute worst feeling in the world. I've broken bones and didn't feel as much pain as I do when I'm being wrenched apart from my husband by immigration laws.

But I've always said that my status is very important to me. When I enter the country for good (next month, all being well), I want it to be as the legally recognised and government-approved wife of my husband. I will walk through immigration with my head held high knowing I did everything correctly. Not standing in the visitor line wondering which officer looks the most reasonable and is going to buy my story of "just visiting" and praying that he doesn't send me to secondary for an inspection of my bags or a call to my employer to see if my story is right.

Personally, I think we can live without parent and sibling immigrant visas. We are grown adults. We don't need our parents, brothers and sisters with us. There is also a lot of shady business in this category too. Siblings realising they have upwards of 13 years to wait so mother gets petitioned and the minute she has her green card she petitions the other children. Boom! How to bypass the sibling wait list.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I think it's very ugly to cast aspersions about people based on how they want to live their lives, with their extended family or not. People seem to lack imagination about how others might lead their lives.

[Inikamoze 86]

Yes spirited debate, at least you haven't got the many sour puss people on here claiming it's not fair... you have to pay your dues and wait in line like I did being apart from my loved one.... whine

Not the way the world works, and for some delaying entry is beneficial to a couple financially perhaps.

AOS will remain whether we like it or not. After all there is an official form from USCIS for this very purpose.

You don't bring subjectivity into the process (one persons medical emergency considered more pressing than another persons) hence the primary factor scrutinised isn't even "intent" but whether upon entry to the USA you did so legally and not misrepresented the facts to a birder officer.

Yes people will play the system to jump the queue but that will be in every category of visa. You going to monitor every student here on a F1 visa as to who they are having relationships with for fear they are going to get ahead by marrying a us citizen. We are not quite there yet with the Orwellian interpretation of the future!

Yes a cash cow it might be (upcoming fee hikes attest to that!) but the gates are not just opened up to everyone without carrying out background checks etc..

JFH I found your last paragraph quite nauseous in stating people can do without parents or siblings as we are all "adults". To some having a cohesive family unit all I need the same place is the utopia abd being able to have that dream realised in the US is the cherry on the cake.

Again USCIS allow for the upgrading of any petition, for instance from when applying as an LPR and in the meantime obtaining citizenship.. it does happen and immigration don't have a problem with although quite clearly you do.

Nobody wants fraudulent activity to be the basis of letting people in but given the numbers if applicants it's going to happen whether we, the government or other potential immigrants standing at the back of the line and doing it in the "right way" like it.

Ask any AOS person and I bet most of them also held their head up high as they swayed through the immigration hall to report to a border officer. The ones cowering are easily spotted and swiftly removed from the line to await their fate!

Edited November 19, 2016 by Inikamoze

[Transborderwife 4,666]

I think it's very ugly to cast aspersions about people based on how they want to live their lives, with their extended family or not. People seem to lack imagination about how others might lead their lives.

very true. to be honest, I know many who don't really associate much outside of a small circle or even their spouses, live in short term housing by choice, etc.

[EM_Vandaveer 2,408]

Having considered it while my husband was in America on the VWP, I don't see how it is feasible for most cases without some good pre-planning, lack of any sort of life at home, or some thoughtlessness as to the consequences. How does an adult with a job, an apartment/house, or a car just decide to up and adjust status and leave everyone back home to clean up after them*?

I'd say off the top of my head that most cases are pre-planned and then followed by people who would never get a B1/B2 if they weren't eligible for VWP because they have no ties to their home country and just decide to stay.

*This applies mostly to people with non emergent situations.

I'd be curious to see the 5-10 year survival rate of marriages by AOS from VWP versus CR/IR-1. I have a theory that patient people who follow laws tend to make better marriages, but it is just that.

Over 5 years married, AOS from VWP (no intent on entry). We have two kids with a third on the way. Don't foresee our marriage ever being in danger. Also we got married after knowing each other for two months... I don't recommend that but it worked for us. We did spend those two months constantly in each other's company.

By the way, there was no planning on AOS in our case. We met by chance in a third country (not my home country or the US), fell in love, he invited me to visit him in the US, I agreed. My research into US immigration at that point was only that 1) there is such a thing as a K-1 visa, but it takes months to get and 2) I can use VWP to enter. It was a no brainier to choose VWP. We had plans to marry, yes. But also our plan was to go visit my family in Hungary once my 90 days were up. Once we got married and started to live together and plan the future we realized that if I left it would take a year to get a spousal visa. Visit to Hungary was scrapped (we still have not gone, hoping to this year) and we filed for AOS instead.

Edited November 20, 2016 by EM_Vandaveer

[millefleur 5,046]

AOS from the VWP/Tourist visa is a huge privilege. As I said earlier in this thread, a lot of other countries do not even have such a thing. And it's true what KierenHby said: people who do so without intent are the exception. Most people enter with intent (and they probably don't even realize that that constitutes fraud) and that's why for those of us with family members in certain countries it's very difficult to get a B-1/B-2. VWP people are just very lucky, whereas visa-required people end up getting the short end of the stick. Nobody can dispute the unfairness of the system as it is when you look at it from that perspective.

P.S.: Why is Canada so lax about giving out tourist visas? You'd think that Canada would be equally desirable for over-stayers, and yet it seems inherently easier for visa-required people to get a Canadian visitor visa than a US visa. The fact that Canada's system seems so much fairer is just another reason I wish I were a Canadian instead of a USC. But, we can't choose where we are born.

[Transborderwife 4,666]

AOS from the VWP/Tourist visa is a huge privilege. As I said earlier in this thread, a lot of other countries do not even have such a thing. And it's true what KierenHby said: people who do so without intent are the exception. Most people enter with intent (and they probably don't even realize that that constitutes fraud) and that's why for those of us with family members in certain countries it's very difficult to get a B-1/B-2. VWP people are just very lucky, whereas visa-required people end up getting the short end of the stick. Nobody can dispute the unfairness of the system as it is when you look at it from that perspective.

P.S.: Why is Canada so lax about giving out tourist visas? You'd think that Canada would be equally desirable for over-stayers, and yet it seems inherently easier for visa-required people to get a Canadian visitor visa than a US visa. The fact that Canada's system seems so much fairer is just another reason I wish I were a Canadian instead of a USC. But, we can't choose where we are born.

on the contrary Canada is not lax about giving ouyt tourist visas. it can be harder than the USA at times.

[millefleur 5,046]

on the contrary Canada is not lax about giving ouyt tourist visas. it can be harder than the USA at times.

Well, I've known two people here in Russia who both got Canadian tourist visas without even having a face-to-face interview, it was merely a mail-in procedure. One of these people is a young unmarried woman, which would normally be an automatic denial for a US visa. And Canada embassies actually do look at the documentation you have to provide because they ask you to mail it to them, unlike the US CO's who basically never do. So, based on these anecdotes, I'd say it's at least significantly easier for Russians to get visitor visas to Canada than to the US.

Edited November 20, 2016 by millefleur

[Transborderwife 4,666]

Well, I've known two people here in Russia who both got Canadian tourist visas without even having a face-to-face interview, it was merely a mail-in procedure. One of these people is a young unmarried woman, which would normally be an automatic denial for a US visa. And Canada embassies actually do look at the documentation you have to provide because they ask you to mail it to them, unlike the US CO's who basically never do. So, based on these anecdotes, I'd say it's at least significantly easier for Russians to get visitor visas to Canada than to the US.

Russians perhaps. But quite a few friends have had family from India, Pakistan etc denied for not solid reasons.

[Chardon Ne' 71]

*RANT*

Trump promised to fight illegal immigration vigorously including building the wall on Mexico-US border.

One thing that would be nice to add to the list will be scrap adjustment of status for the non-immigrant categories listed above.

We all know that for VWP, all you have to do is to not have an" intent to immigrate". All other categories require you to show hardcore proof but others skate through because they did not say exactly that their gf or bf here wants them to come, marry and adjust.

How about we all join the long queue? If you come in with no intentions to stay then you should leave just like you intended despite marriage to a USC. You can return and start the process from your home country. That would be fair to everyone who wants to come here legally..#my2cents

If you entered through a POE you are not here illegally. You are just out of visa status if it expired. My question is what would this accomplish? What about people who overstay student/work visas? I think more emphasis should be placed on screening for individuals who commit crimes.

America views Ghana as a country that rates high in scams should we assume that even those who enter legally from there will be coming to steal identities? I believe that as long as a person's intent is to work and be a productive member of society that should be all that is considered. I just know that we should be careful for a call to exclude people because if that happens there is a tendency for countries whose population is mostly black/brown who end up at the top of that list.