Abortion Discussion [split topic]

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I have. Always minded my legs, that is. Never gotten a woman pregnant that I didn't take care of her and the kiddos. Never asked one to get an abortion out of regret. And I think it should NOT be allowed for a woman to choose to do that after promiscuous sex. Sorry if you don't like that, but that's how I feel. Unless you are one of those women who opt to use abortion as a form of birth control, I see no reason for you getting angry at me expressing my opinion.

and i say that if you haven't learned yet to mind your own business, you'll just further yourself down the path of a grumpy busy body. if you don't want to use abortion as birth control, don't. and be mindful to make sure you only have sex with women who share the same opinion. mind yourself. we teach that to wee toddlers as it is one of the basics.

the likes of me will always get angry when a man opens his mouth to try and tell a woman to shut her legs. shut yours. they're the only legs you've any say over.

[yuna628 9,671]

If you're implying I hate women, that is too funny. I say they should be responsible and not have promiscuous sex (as opposed to aborting a child after said sex), and you try to turn that into hatred for women. Quite a far reach, even for the likes of you.

Men should also be responsible and perhaps if they controlled themselves you wouldn't need to shout at women to close their legs. Who are you or the government to judge what a person does consensually with another person? Because abortions don't just happen because of ''promiscuity'' as you put it, they are often agonizing choices being made by consensual long-time partners and married couples because of health issues to mother or potential baby, when other methods fail, and even for financial reasons. And if you are happy with the right for equal access to birth control and protection, I take it you also have no problem with the 'morning after' pill?

Edited November 3, 2016 by yuna628

[smilesammich 10,727]

I have. Always minded my legs, that is. Never gotten a woman pregnant that I didn't take care of her and the kiddos. Never asked one to get an abortion out of regret. And I think it should NOT be allowed for a woman to choose to do that after promiscuous sex. Sorry if you don't like that, but that's how I feel. Unless you are one of those women who opt to use abortion as a form of birth control, I see no reason for you getting angry at me expressing my opinion.

your opinion is utter bunk as it is impossible for an outside medical OR government agency to determine if a pregnancy is achieved via 'promiscuous sex'

so short sighted lfehfn, smh. how does one go about legislating what constitutes 'promiscuous sex'?

Men should also be responsible and perhaps if they controlled themselves you wouldn't need to shout at women to close their legs. Who are you or the government to judge what a person does consensually with another person? Because abortions don't just happen because of ''promiscuity'' as you put it, they are often agonizing choices being made by consensual long-time partners and married couples because of health issues to mother or potential baby, when other methods fail, and even for financial reasons. And if you are happy with the right for equal access to birth control and protection, I take it you also have no problem with the 'morning after' pill?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Yuna, you are SO barking up the wrong tree here. I said I agree with you. There are times when abortions are a viable solution. Rape is obviously one. I'd even go so far as to say it would be OK to abort to prevent unwanted births from defects. Personally, I'd rather a mom have a choice to abort as opposed to having to raise a child who will never be able to take care of him/her self, or who will die a young age. THAT should be an option for parents.

Trouble is, I know more women who have aborted out of regret than those that had a good reason. Not wanting the responsibility of raising a child is not a good reason, IMHO. That's what birth control methods and condoms are for. Have all the protected sex you want, if that's your style. I support that as a woman's right.

Didn't mean to imply that keeping her legs closed is only a woman's responsibility. It goes both ways, obviously. But at the end of the day, no one sees it as a man's right to abort, only a woman's. Only a woman can support a baby in her womb.

I know a lady who knew her baby would never live after it was born, and she chose to go to full term, just so the doctors could harvest the healthy organs. Now THAT was a brave decision, and must have been horrible to have to decide. But I admire her for her decision, for the sacrifice that she made so that others could have something when she could not. A healthy baby.

Men should also be responsible and perhaps if they controlled themselves you wouldn't need to shout at women to close their legs. Who are you or the government to judge what a person does consensually with another person? Because abortions don't just happen because of ''promiscuity'' as you put it, they are often agonizing choices being made by consensual long-time partners and married couples because of health issues to mother or potential baby, when other methods fail, and even for financial reasons. And if you are happy with the right for equal access to birth control and protection, I take it you also have no problem with the 'morning after' pill?

[yuna628 9,671]

Yuna, you are SO barking up the wrong tree here. I said I agree with you. There are times when abortions are a viable solution. Rape is obviously one. I'd even go so far as to say it would be OK to abort to prevent unwanted births from defects. Personally, I'd rather a mom have a choice to abort as opposed to having to raise a child who will never be able to take care of him/her self, or who will die a young age. THAT should be an option for parents.

Trouble is, I know more women who have aborted out of regret than those that had a good reason. Not wanting the responsibility of raising a child is not a good reason, IMHO. That's what birth control methods and condoms are for. Have all the protected sex you want, if that's your style. I support that as a woman's right.

Didn't mean to imply that keeping her legs closed is only a woman's responsibility. It goes both ways, obviously. But at the end of the day, no one sees it as a man's right to abort, only a woman's. Only a woman can support a baby in her womb.

I know a lady who knew her baby would never live after it was born, and she chose to go to full term, just so the doctors could harvest the healthy organs. Now THAT was a brave decision, and must have been horrible to have to decide. But I admire her for her decision, for the sacrifice that she made so that others could have something when she could not. A healthy baby.

I don't think you quite agree with me. You seem to feel birth control and protection are fullproof methods. They are not. So even completely faithful happy couples can have your ''oopsie'' moments and have decisions to make. If ripping a baby out of the womb, as Trump put it, is a concern to him and other so-called republicans they should be fine with 'morning after' options if 'responsible sex having' methods fail.

If a woman has regret for the choice she makes, that's life isn't it? We often do things we feel are mistakes, which lead to making other mistakes in choice later on, but that's the way it goes. And it should not be for you or the government to tell someone otherwise. If you feel that only a woman has a hand in the decision to abort... she may have to support such a baby physically, but the man has a responsibility to be emotionally, psychologically, and financially supportive... responsibilities that those men may not live up to. It is the man that often leaves a woman abandoned and unable to cope - and these aren't always exactly young impressionable women either. They may also be abandoned by their families.

I know a young woman who was in a long term relationship with her fiance. They always used birth control. But guess what? It failed. She was scared and didn't know what to do. Eventually she told her parents. Mom was thrilled and demanded she keep the baby, but Dad was brutal. He wanted her to get an abortion. They fought for months over it and it also put a strain on the various relationships. She almost gave into that pressure to abort. During some of the first scans, the doctors knew something was very wrong with the baby. The pressure her Dad put on her was severe and she nearly had to be hospitalized under the emotional strain of whether to keep the baby or not. Eventually the doctors said well there's maybe a 50/50 shot of the baby surviving. She decided that even with how horrible her Dad was being, if there was at least a chance of life she would keep the baby, because she didn't want her Mom and God to hate her. The events that happened in the hospital weren't good and neither mother or baby received good care (which would have been critical in saving it's life). The badly deformed baby managed to survive a day, before passing away. She went through a severe depression and regret that the child she brought into the world only suffered before dying. She felt as if she was selfish and that she had been given false hope. Her Dad blamed himself for how he had acted and Mom blamed him for putting their daughter under such duress, but neither really took responsibility for their the pressure they had caused. She is much older now, with three beautiful children, but every year she is reminded of the choice she made not to abort. That baby has a special place in her heart but she does wish she had made a different choice to spare it suffering, and with the support she didn't receive from her parents. She is one of the strongest women I know.

Life is not always a case of promiscuity. Things happen. And the decisions women have to make are not easy ones.

Edited November 3, 2016 by yuna628

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ok Yuna, let's leave religion out of it for a moment, cuz I am not sure if that matters. But at what point does abortion become murder? What is the defining line for you?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Ok Yuna, let's leave religion out of it for a moment, cuz I am not sure if that matters. But at what point does abortion become murder? What is the defining line for you?

Religion is the basis for the anti-abortion crowds beliefs. Let us be honest and not try and pretend that it isn't. False premises' make for silly and useless discussions.

[Teddy B 17,252]

how does one go about legislating what constitutes 'promiscuous sex'?

The promiscuous sex definition is fluid. It's up to the man, whatever he says goes.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

If you are a religious person, then I guess your thoughts on abortion may stem from your religion. I don't consider myself a religious person, so my thoughts on abortion don't have anything to do with religion.

However, at some point, pro-choice for all instances becomes murder. Just trying to establish where that point is. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but it has to exist.

Threads are for discussion. Discussions which begin by a demand to separate reality but from the heart of the discussion are seldom useful.

How do you not understand that religious beliefs are at the root of the anti-abortion legislation? Herr Pence was quite clear about why he is totally against abortion, his faith.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Your attitude & words often makes it hard for one to want to continue a discussion with you. Since you think my "opinion is bunk", I didn't see a need for further discourse on the topic with you.

I shouldn't have used the word promiscuous (though it often comes into play reference unwanted pregnancies), as having multiple partners isn't the only way to be with unwanted child. A better term would have been careless. Or unprotected.

pretty sure i addressed you with a direct question a few posts back

[Teddy B 17,252]

If you are a religious person, then I guess your thoughts on abortion may stem from your religion. I don't consider myself a religious person, so my thoughts on abortion don't have anything to do with religion.

However, at some point, pro-choice for all instances becomes murder. Just trying to establish where that point is. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but it has to exist.

If a woman who cannot afford to have a baby becomes pregnant, are you okay with supporting that Mother and baby on welfare for as long as it takes for them to become self supportive rather than the Mother choosing to have an abortion?

[smilesammich 10,727]

I shouldn't have used the word promiscuous (though it often comes into play reference unwanted pregnancies), as having multiple partners isn't the only way to be with unwanted child. A better term would have been careless. Or unprotected.

question still stands. how does a doctor or a court (fcs) determine what is a pregnancy resulting from careless sex. or unprotected sex. what if the condom slipped off mid protected sex. shall we introduce legislation determining the number of sexual partners a person is allowed to have at any given time? so ridiculous. you didn't want to respond to the question because it exposes the motive behind your sloppy rhetoric, and that motive stinks of misogyny. sorry the truth is rough for some to deal with. block me.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Again I ask... At what point does it become murder? 3 weeks? 3 months? Any point prior to delivery? Within 3 months after delivery, when the new mother (or parents) realize what a needy human being they have brought into the world, and how much it will change their lives?

If a woman who cannot afford to have a baby becomes pregnant, are you okay with supporting that Mother and baby on welfare for as long as it takes for them to become self supportive rather than the Mother choosing to have an abortion?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

The promiscuous sex definition is fluid. It's up to the man, whatever he says goes.

is promiscuous sex supposed to be a bad thing ?

[Teddy B 17,252]

Again I ask... At what point does it become murder? 3 weeks? 3 months? Any point prior to delivery? Within 3 months after delivery, when the new mother (or parents) realize what a needy human being they have brought into the world, and how much it will change their lives?

You're doing a lot of dancing here Dave, my question was pretty straight forward. I'm not getting into the "when it becomes murder" argument, because I believe that is up to the woman who is carrying the baby, not you or I.

Again I ask. If a woman who cannot afford to have a baby becomes pregnant, are you okay with supporting that Mother and baby on welfare for as long as it takes for them to become self supportive rather than the Mother choosing to have an abortion?

is promiscuous sex supposed to be a bad thing ?

To some I guess.