Converting to Islam

[m&n 0]

One's opinion as the captain said is not the bottom line. Why can't people just get along?

[rclouse 0]

Bismillah. Salaam and thank you very much, m&n, for your prompt and concise answer to the question posed. However, and with all due respect, it does not cite Quran nor Sunnah, the elements needed to make a ruling binding. Merely being mentioned in a list in a book of fiqh does not mean that the element is of the sharia, only that the element is of fiqh.

*snip*

holy #######...maybe arabic is the language of preference 'cause it's shorter! I didn't understand one word you just said. I like to keep things simple.

If you cannot understand that then you fail high school English. I thought it was very well written, intelligent, moderate and tolerant. Exactly what Islam needs more of today.

[Henia 11]

holy #######...maybe arabic is the language of preference 'cause it's shorter! I didn't understand one word you just said. I like to keep things simple.

ay, this insistence on "simplicity" reminds me of the pray on your period conversation a while back.

Ooooooooooooooooooooo snaps!

[Henia 11]

Esalaamu Aleikum that is why the first word revealed was 'read' so we could educate ourselves about things not known to us. If you cannot get a hold of any books, then as another VJ member's signature suggests: Google is your friend! Use it!

No need to be rude, Henia. I read just fine thankyouverymuch. Just so happens that all of the things *I* read tend to totally go against whatever GEG tends to say.

So you are in agreement, Henia, that we can say our Salat in whatever the heck language suits our fancy?

My usual is usually right.

That is your *opinion* and as the Cap'n has gently reminded....we should respect each other's opinion.

Thanks Cap'n!

Esalaamu Aleikum sister!

It is unfortunate that you found my comment rude. Was totally NOT my intention. Astagfuruallah! Next time I will add Jazak Allah khiern or something! I added the Google bit since everytime I see that on that certain VJ memeber's signature I just get a total kick of it!

Cap'n and you are right. We should respect each other. Enchallah I try to do that same. We are all different humans here, from different places, different faiths and within them different levels. Judgement can only be given by the ultimate judge, our Rabb! Again sorry if my comments came out wrong. My intention, Allahu allem was good.

There is much controversy of bilingual Islamic prayer and prayers speak in other languages then Arabe. Caliph Omar al-Farooq said ""Arab is the raw material of Islam" meaning that Arab culture is the primary source in Islam's formation. But in fact, Islam is flexible and recognizes the dimension of locality in almost all of its teachings. Islam knowledged the social and cultural context of Arab society in the 7century. Briefly, Islam appreciated the local culture and the intertwining process between (sacred) texts and reality. Therefore, the local influence is well embedded within the Islamic religious construction.

And yes, *I* agree that saying the salaat in arabe is customary and followed by *most* Muslims in this world. Even native arabe speakers are not and cannot recite the suras and prayer in the classical form of Arabe that the Qurán was written. Students learning the Qur'an take years (and many beating) to learn the proper pronouncation. I believe Allah our Creator to be all-knowing and all-merciful. Only HE can say what truly lays in your heart... and if your heart lays with the best intention (saing the meaning that the word signify, not nesssaryly the correct prounouncation) then Allah should (enchallah) accept the prayer. Aaaaaaaand in the case that one should say the prayer in another language, then the preferred again use common sense. Would Allah ask a newcomer to his path to be correct and on time? Would Allah punish a true believer for some few words, when the truth, the meaning lay instilled in their heart? I think not.

Once, there was an interesting debate between two scholar teachers in Islamic law, Imem Abu Hanifa (a Persian) and Imem Shafii (an Arab Qura'ish). Shafii argued that reading surat Fatiha in Arabe during prayer is obligatory and the salaat is not valid without it. While Hanifa allowed reading surat Fatiha in Persian ( or other languages) Imem Hanifa did not care wheither muchaly (the one who prays) speaks arabe or not.

Salaat is a stipulation (qathiy) from Allah, (the God) ... the method of performing this ritual and the prayers to recite are a construction of the fuqaha (experts in Islam cannon law). That is why there are differences of opinion in this matter I believe.

Many examples prayers and kutbahs (sermons) being lead in languages other then arabE are in Indonesia, Turkei and Persia.

Non-arabe native speakers should I think (attempt) to learn arabe to better understand the Qur'an and the teaching of Islam, as their words, phrases that cannot simply be translated without losing their "true" meaning. Just as it suggested men pray in the masjid, but it is not required. It is suggest one pray in Arabe, the salaat which is fard (required) Duúa (supplication) can and most times is said in one's native tongue.

And I assume that if Pr Mohammad(saw) would have been a non-Arabe pr in a non-arabe speaking area, the prayer would have been preformed by the Prophet in the language that belonged to that community. Allahu Allem.

That is just my 2cents.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Henia

[Sofiyya 1,687]

That was beautiful, Henia, and worth more than 2 cents.

Thank you, rclouse!

everyone.

[Henia 11]

That was beautiful, Henia, and worth more than 2 cents.

Thank you, rclouse!

everyone.

Saha ukhti!

[Henia 11]

Bismillah. Salaam and thank you very much, m&n, for your prompt and concise answer to the question posed. However, and with all due respect, it does not cite Quran nor Sunnah, the elements needed to make a ruling binding. Merely being mentioned in a list in a book of fiqh does not mean that the element is of the sharia, only that the element is of fiqh.

*snip*

holy #######...maybe arabic is the language of preference 'cause it's shorter! I didn't understand one word you just said. I like to keep things simple.

If you cannot understand that then you fail high school English. I thought it was very well written, intelligent, moderate and tolerant. Exactly what Islam needs more of today.

I agree too. Islam premotes moderate ideals and modesty. Unforunately many Muslims (today) practice a twisted form of Islam, which is bordering the extremely extreme. I find it rather amusing when over zealous converts come to Islam with so much euthuaism, one day bikini babe next a burqa ... claiming it is the will of Allah Religion comes not with any complusion. Islam, whether one *fully* understands it or not has made our lives easier, laid clear guidelines for this life. And I have said in the above post is adeptable, flexiable and calculates dimension and magnitude of the society one lives in. Islam of course does not change, buuuut our society does... just I think certain Muslims and scholar pick and choose surats and hadiths to suporrt their own version of the truth. We must remember we as humans, can look at the same one thing, and see it in a million ways. Allahu allem!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I agree too. Islam premotes moderate ideals and modesty. Unforunately many Muslims (today) practice a twisted form of Islam, which is bordering the extremely extreme. I find it rather amusing when over zealous converts come to Islam with so much euthuaism, one day bikini babe next a burqa ... claiming it is the will of Allah Religion comes not with any complusion. Islam, whether one *fully* understands it or not has made our lives easier, laid clear guidelines for this life. And I have said in the above post is adeptable, flexiable and calculates dimension and magnitude of the society one lives in. Islam of course does not change, buuuut our society does... just I think certain Muslims and scholar pick and choose surats and hadiths to suporrt their own version of the truth. We must remember we as humans, can look at the same one thing, and see it in a million ways. Allahu allem!

Well said, Henia, but be careful. You're sounding a lot like me with your talk about moderation vs. extremism, over zealous converts, and picking and choosing to suit one's views. It's true, but acknowledging it doesn't go over well. Sounds condesending to some.

[Henia 11]

I agree too. Islam premotes moderate ideals and modesty. Unforunately many Muslims (today) practice a twisted form of Islam, which is bordering the extremely extreme. I find it rather amusing when over zealous converts come to Islam with so much euthuaism, one day bikini babe next a burqa ... claiming it is the will of Allah Religion comes not with any complusion. Islam, whether one *fully* understands it or not has made our lives easier, laid clear guidelines for this life. And I have said in the above post is adeptable, flexiable and calculates dimension and magnitude of the society one lives in. Islam of course does not change, buuuut our society does... just I think certain Muslims and scholar pick and choose surats and hadiths to suporrt their own version of the truth. We must remember we as humans, can look at the same one thing, and see it in a million ways. Allahu allem!

Well said, Henia, but be careful. You're sounding a lot like me with your talk about moderation vs. extremism, over zealous converts, and picking and choosing to suit one's views. It's true, but acknowledging it doesn't go over well. Sounds condesending to some.

Ye I hear ya! BTW GEG, have you ever heard of Rani Salafis? I am curious ------------> I think they are the looniest of the bunch!