RFE (They lost my medical), replied with DS-3025, two months no response

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

First, not sure why they use incorrect terminology on their own documents. There is no such thing as an I-693A. The vaccinations 'supplement' is part of the I-693 form.

Someone in need of doing the vaccinations only when adjusting from a K-1 would follow the I-693 instructions and submit Parts 1., 2., 4., and 7. of the I-693. Part 7 is the vaccinations record.

The RFE asked for a new medical from a civil surgeon, and not just the vaccinations. You needed to see a civil surgeon to get a new medical and sealed I-693 form.

Some IOs do not know their own USCIS policies, and have asked for new medicals when they should not. You should not need a new medical if you applied for AOS within a year of your K-1 medical, UNLESS your medical is not in your file.

Here is the USCIS policy for K-1 adjusters >

http://www.uscis.gov...B-Chapter3.html

4. K or V Nonimmigrants Applying for Adjustment​

K and V nonimmigrants applying for adjustment of status are not required to repeat the medical examination if the application was filed within one year of the date of the original medical examination, and:​

•The medical examination did not reveal a Class A medical condition; or ​
​
•The applicant received a conditional waiver in conjunction with the K or V nonimmigrant visa or the change of status to V and the applicant submits evidence of compliance with the waiver terms and conditions.​ ^[27]

If a new medical examination is required and reveals a Class ​A​ medical condition, a new waiver application will also be required. In such cases, the officer should determine whether the applicant complied with the terms and conditions of the first waiver, if applicable. Such determination should be given considerable weight in the adjudication of a subsequent waiver application.​ ^{[28] ​}

Even if a new medical examination is not required, applicants must still comply with the vaccination requirements if the vaccination record was not included as part of the original medical examination report. If the vaccination report was properly completed at the time of the overseas examination, the officer may accept the vaccination assessment completed by the panel physician. ​

An applicant’s overseas medical examination report completed by a panel physician should already be in the applicant’s A-file. If it is not in the A-file, the officer should request the medical examination report through a Request for Evidence (RFE).​

Edited October 18, 2016 by KayDeeCee

[Pennycat 880]

First, not sure why they use incorrect terminology on their own documents. There is no such thing as an I-693A. The vaccinations 'supplement' is part of the I-693 form.

Someone in need of doing the vaccinations only when adjusting from a K-1 would follow the I-693 instructions and submit Parts 1., 2., 4., and 7. of the I-693. Part 7 is the vaccinations record.

The RFE asked for a new medical from a civil surgeon, and not just the vaccinations. You needed to see a civil surgeon to get a new medical and sealed I-693 form.

Some IOs do not know their own USCIS policies, and have asked for new medicals when they should not. You should not need a new medical if you applied for AOS within a year of your K-1 medical, UNLESS your medical is not in your file.

From the sound of the response to the congressional inquiry I sent in, it sounds like there was either a delay in getting the package sent in from CBP or they simply forgot to ask for it/ wait for it/ knew they needed it. I asked if OP here is going through the Newark Field Office because that's who made the mistake on mine. I'm wondering if some of the work is being farmed out to field offices, who don't routinely process AOS from K1s (it's normally the service centers, yes) and who simply don't know/ don't understand the nuances that make this visa and AOS process unique. Either way, I got out of it. But it took contacting them through my Congressman to do it, because there's no way for a USCIS customer to talk to someone competent/ with any authority on their own.

It sounds like OP got the RFE, then read the instructions for the I-693 which mention the DS-3025 and thought that's what they were asking for. Wrong, obviously, but I could see that logical thought process because the instructions also very clearly state that K1 AOSers don't need to do the I-693 if a DS-3025 was done.

A lot of people have been getting this recently. I wonder how many people wind up getting second medicals all due to USCIS not understanding its own processes? Honestly, I'd have just bitten the bullet and gotten a second medical if my husband had his vax records or any way to get them. I was NOT about to have him get all his childhood vaccinations for the 3rd time in his life, second time in 10 months. Or pay for it. I'd have paid for a second medical just to get it over with though, even though I understood it wasn't necessary.

[Pennycat 880]

Thank you for this it was helpful at the office. They told me I'd hear back in 45 days or less.

I forgot to mention also that they sent the RFE to my new address, but they didn't have any apt # and the zip code was my old zip code not my new one. I'm lucky I even received it.

Is it strange that I did not receive a response to my change of address?

Nice, glad to help. I don't think they'd mail any sort of address change confirmation so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Just make sure (through the congressional rep) that they do have the new and full address just in case you don't get as lucky next time.

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

From the sound of the response to the congressional inquiry I sent in, it sounds like there was either a delay in getting the package sent in from CBP or they simply forgot to ask for it/ wait for it/ knew they needed it. I asked if OP here is going through the Newark Field Office because that's who made the mistake on mine. I'm wondering if some of the work is being farmed out to field offices, who don't routinely process AOS from K1s (it's normally the service centers, yes) and who simply don't know/ don't understand the nuances that make this visa and AOS process unique. Either way, I got out of it. But it took contacting them through my Congressman to do it, because there's no way for a USCIS customer to talk to someone competent/ with any authority on their own.

It sounds like OP got the RFE, then read the instructions for the I-693 which mention the DS-3025 and thought that's what they were asking for. Wrong, obviously, but I could see that logical thought process because the instructions also very clearly state that K1 AOSers don't need to do the I-693 if a DS-3025 was done.

A lot of people have been getting this recently. I wonder how many people wind up getting second medicals all due to USCIS not understanding its own processes? Honestly, I'd have just bitten the bullet and gotten a second medical if my husband had his vax records or any way to get them. I was NOT about to have him get all his childhood vaccinations for the 3rd time in his life, second time in 10 months. Or pay for it. I'd have paid for a second medical just to get it over with though, even though I understood it wasn't necessary.

I have seen some get a correct RFE, asking for just the vaccinations from the civil surgeon, and I have seen some get incorrect ones asking for a new medical. They do not know their own policies regarding K-1 adjustment applicants. I think many of those incorrect RFEs do come from the field offices that are receiving the interview waivers backlog. There have been some a few different USCIS offices that have apparently been designated to help out with the interview waiver cases.

A couple people here on VJ have already been successful with sending back a copy of the USCIS policy and I-693 instructions explaining they do not need a new medical. It was a risk to respond to an RFE that way, but they got the approval and green card without another medical.

And no one would need to get all their childhood vaccinations for AOS. The only ones required are those that are age and season appropriate> MMR, Tdap/Td, varicella and flu. Also, you can take your vaccination records to a civil surgeon and have the ones that are still valid transcribed onto the I-693 without having to repeat them.

[Pennycat 880]

I have seen some get a correct RFE, asking for just the vaccinations from the civil surgeon, and I have seen some get incorrect ones asking for a new medical. They do not know their own policies regarding K-1 adjustment applicants. I think many of those incorrect RFEs do come from the field offices that are receiving the interview waivers backlog. There have been some a few different USCIS offices that have apparently been designated to help out with the interview waiver cases.

A couple people here on VJ have already been successful with sending back a copy of the USCIS policy and I-693 instructions explaining they do not need a new medical. It was a risk to respond to an RFE that way, but they got the approval and green card without another medical.

And no one would need to get all their childhood vaccinations for AOS. The only ones required are those that are age and season appropriate> MMR, Tdap/Td, varicella and flu. Also, you can take your vaccination records to a civil surgeon and have the ones that are still valid transcribed onto the I-693 without having to repeat them.

Why would a K1 need to submit vaccination supplement? If DS-3025 wasn't done properly abroad? Our RFE was unclear (to me) what exactly it was asking for --it did just say I-693, Report of Medical Examination and Vaccination Supplement. But then when you go read the instructions for I-693, it is absloutely clear that we were exempted from it. So we contacted our Congressman who got it cleared up. Seems they didn't have/ didn't know to look for/ request/ whatever the packet from CBP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was worried to respond to the RFE that way, thinking if I hit someone on the wrong day/ bad mood they'd just deny. But I considered it for sure. Basically, it took an extra week or two to go through Congressman and I figured if they denied it, I'd have a paper trail of what happened and someone with more access than I have at my back. Plus, I don't know. Maybe if they start getting enough calls to supervisors from Congressional offices, someone somewhere will figure out that the field offices need some re-training/ refresher on this topic.

When I said childhood vaccines, I meant MMR Tdap etc. He had them all as a kid, got them all in Sept 2015 for this (because his mom didn't have his childhood records). People would indeed need to repeat them here if they don't have a copy of DS 3025 from embassy doctor (apparently this guy wouldn't give my husband a copy saying he wasn't allowed, and when we called after the RFE, doesn't keep copies himself. Wonderful). So if USCIS was going to dig in and require medical/ vax supplement, he'd have had to get the shots again in Aug 2016. Not cool.

[yuna628 9,676]

Our RFE on this matter specifically used wording that made it clear it was the vaccination supplement only they wanted. I think we should be careful to note that while the I-693 is one form and one form only... different pages are for different things. The instructions for the I-693, make it clear K1s are exempted from sending in an I-693 for the full medical... but they also state the K1 adjusting should provide proof of vaccinations. The instructions for the I-485 however, don't really go into making a distinction (since this adjustment form is used for all sorts of visa types). The I-693 instructions state:

Even if a new medical examination is not required, you must still show proof that you complied with the vaccination requirements. If the vaccination record (DS 3025) was not properly completed and included as part of the original overseas medical examination report, you will have to have the Part 7. Vaccination Record completed by a designated civil surgeon. In this case, you must submit Parts 1., 2., 4., and 7. of Form I-693.

The thinking was of course that if we submitted DS3025 this should give the USCIS caseworker to get a cluephone and go looking for the medical documents. But this assumes that our DS3025 is filled out correctly in the first place, or that the caseworker is aware of the I-693 rules, or that the medical documents aren't somehow lost and/or delayed, or that they can/or know how to find them. And like Catherine says... there is weirdly cases where the copy of the DS3025 isn't given, which really is harmful to the immigrant who is virtually being wrongly ordered to go get vaccines again due to USCIS' screw-up. It would help if the USCIS could make up their mind what it is they really want from applicants. If caseworkers don't know the rules, then retraining is in order. Beyond that the rules should be clarified - either make the I-693 vaccination supplement a standard document to be sent in for K1s adjusting, or demand that if a panel physician wants to keep making money they had best fill out the DS3025 correctly and issue them to the patient as standard practice. The patient is not a doctor or an official and it should not be their responsibility to determine if the doctor has filled out the document correctly. The RFE wording for this is always vauge and never reveals exactly what the issue is. For those from Knightsbridge I'm sure it's because they continue to fill out the form incorrectly and the USCIS is getting tougher on what they will let slide... but it could be anything.. from being lost to pure laziness on their part. Catherine's congressperson was able to help them, but this isn't the case for everyone. While we complied with the RFE without fighting them, I hoped the letter I wrote in response would help educate the caseworker from future screw-ups. The OP in this case though has somewhat complicated things by not responding to the RFE with what the blanket wording requested, so I hope that their officials can get to the bottom of it on their behalf.

[Pennycat 880]

Our RFE on this matter specifically used wording that made it clear it was the vaccination supplement only they wanted. I think we should be careful to note that while the I-693 is one form and one form only... different pages are for different things. The instructions for the I-693, make it clear K1s are exempted from sending in an I-693 for the full medical... but they also state the K1 adjusting should provide proof of vaccinations. The instructions for the I-485 however, don't really go into making a distinction (since this adjustment form is used for all sorts of visa types). The I-693 instructions state:

The thinking was of course that if we submitted DS3025 this should give the USCIS caseworker to get a cluephone and go looking for the medical documents. But this assumes that our DS3025 is filled out correctly in the first place, or that the caseworker is aware of the I-693 rules, or that the medical documents aren't somehow lost and/or delayed, or that they can/or know how to find them. And like Catherine says... there is weirdly cases where the copy of the DS3025 isn't given, which really is harmful to the immigrant who is virtually being wrongly ordered to go get vaccines again due to USCIS' screw-up. It would help if the USCIS could make up their mind what it is they really want from applicants. If caseworkers don't know the rules, then retraining is in order. Beyond that the rules should be clarified - either make the I-693 vaccination supplement a standard document to be sent in for K1s adjusting, or demand that if a panel physician wants to keep making money they had best fill out the DS3025 correctly and issue them to the patient as standard practice. The patient is not a doctor or an official and it should not be their responsibility to determine if the doctor has filled out the document correctly. The RFE wording for this is always vauge and never reveals exactly what the issue is. For those from Knightsbridge I'm sure it's because they continue to fill out the form incorrectly and the USCIS is getting tougher on what they will let slide... but it could be anything.. from being lost to pure laziness on their part. Catherine's congressperson was able to help them, but this isn't the case for everyone. While we complied with the RFE without fighting them, I hoped the letter I wrote in response would help educate the caseworker from future screw-ups. The OP in this case though has somewhat complicated things by not responding to the RFE with what the blanket wording requested, so I hope that their officials can get to the bottom of it on their behalf.

I think maybe it's just a matter of training or somehow flagging the files as they come in. As much as I have been frustrated by USCIS over the year(s), I think this is a matter of poor organization/management in the system itself rather than the employees (sort of like the TSC/CSC timeline debacle). There are about 30K AOSers from K1s per year out of a population of I'm guessing about a million AOS per year. If these get farmed out to offices that don't normally do them because of a backlog, an individual caseworker could go a really long time without seeing a K1 or just be re-trained quickly to churn through all the B2, H1B and F1 AOSers, who do all need medicals and who I suspect are the majority of AOSers, and just simply not be told about the K1 exception.

Not defending USCIS on this one, but I could see an individual having a reasonable excuse for not knowing. You get assigned something that's not your job because the people whose job it is are doing it slowly, and then you get bitched at for doing it incorrectly, after what is probably sub-standard training. That's an institutional problem, though. For sure.

[TrufflePiggy 3]

Update:

Both the congress woman and USCIS got back to me by mail.--They definitely have my proper address now, and haven't made a decision.

Basically both said "The application to register permanent residence or adjust status is under extensive review.

USCIS said that they cannot give me a time frame as to when it will be done.

So now I just am going to renew my EAD/IP card.

[TrufflePiggy 3]

Update:

I sent in my EAD / AP renewal package because my card was soon expiring and while I was waiting to get it, I received my GREEN CARD!!!

[Georgia16 2,858]

7 minutes ago, TrufflePiggy said:

Update:

I sent in my EAD / AP renewal package because my card was soon expiring and while I was waiting to get it, I received my GREEN CARD!!!

Happy news! Congrats!