A month from now, 50 million Americans will vote for Trump

[JayJayH 546]

And of course totally on message came this ad in a local paper today:

Haha.

I wish more emphasis was put on local elections and less on federal-level partisanship.

One of my friends the other day was asking me who to vote for down ballot, saying she was just crossing out whomever's "name sounded cooler."

[millefleur 5,046]

Haha.

I wish more emphasis was put on local elections and less on federal-level partisanship.

One of my friends the other day was asking me who to vote for down ballot, saying she was just crossing out whomever's "name sounded cooler."

There goes the republic....

[JayJayH 546]

There goes the republic....

At least, statistically, that should leave some balance.

[Póg mo 1,749]

If you live in deep blue county coastal USA, the lunacy on the far left is far more apparent.

.

I don't know what you mean. The far left wants to give everyone access to health care, while the far right wants to bring back fascism. Not exactly mirror images of each other.

[millefleur 5,046]

I don't know what you mean. The far left wants to give everyone access to health care, while the far right wants to bring back fascism. Not exactly mirror images of each other.

Far left means forcing people to follow what the government deems is right even if you believe in it or not. Remember the Soviet Union/Eastern block?

I feel like since the collapse of the USSR/Eastern block, people have forgotten that the far left really isn't that different from the far right in some ways. The Soviet Union did have its pluses though, like free education, healthcare, everyone had a job (or else you went to prison)!

I mean, one could argue the pluses of the far right as well. They have pluses.....at a cost. That's what they have in common.

Edited October 24, 2016 by millefleur

[JayJayH 546]

I don't know what you mean. The far left wants to give everyone access to health care, while the far right wants to bring back fascism. Not exactly mirror images of each other.

Lol, the far left is just about as fascist as the far right.

I don't mind single payer healthcare. That's a great idea. Cost efficient too.

I mind thought police, language police, racial segregation and censorship. I'm sort of a free speech fundamentalist. So the far left scares me far more than the far right these days.

Edited October 24, 2016 by JayJayH

[Teddy B 17,252]

"Great" is a relative term.

One of the greatest misconceptions about the "poor, white working class GOP voter" is that they're voting against their own best interest. In certain contexts I'll concede that it's true. One of my main problems with the GOP aside from the religious conservatism is the anti-union rhetoric. Detroit isn't bankrupt because of unions. Detroit is bankrupt because supply of American-built cars outweighed demand for them. In that context, I think a lot of Rust Belt voters have shot themselves in the foot by jumping on the anti-union bandwagon. A lot of these people are nostalgic for different economic times, sure, but "great" is more of a feeling of nostalgic pride.

That being said, poor working class whites have traditionally been the backbone of the Democratic party. That didn't change in 1964 as some people will claim. West Virginia voted for Bill Clinton twice and even voted for Mike Dukakis in 1988. Bernie Sanders won more primary votes in West Virginia than all non-Trump GOP candidates combined, and he wasn't far behind Trump in total votes either. A lot of these voters no longer see a significant economic difference between the Democratic and Republican establishment, so they are cultural and social issue voters.

If you (not you personally) want to convince poor working class white voters to vote Democrat again, you'll also have to stop telling them that their skin color makes them more privileged than others, and that they're uneducated peasants who cling to their guns and religion. Plain and simple. And that's what most of the mainstream media has been doing for decades.

There are at least a few factors that caused the supply/demand problem for US automakers. To say that supply outweighed demand is a bit too simplistic imo.

1. Perhaps the biggest factor is the US auto industry failed to keep up with the technology shift that took place in the late 70's and the early 80's to smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. They then rushed to catch up with the Japanese and European automakers and in turn put out an inferior product. This allowed the foreign auto makers to capture a large amount of the US auto market and the US automakers have never gotten it back.

2. The market crash in the mid 2000's affected everything, but it hit the US auto industry particularly hard. The big 3 were hanging on by a thread at that time and the economic crisis was the straw that broke the camel's back. GM and Chrysler were decimated and Ford was barely able to hang on. Massive layoffs and gov't bailouts were the only thing that saved them. In hindsight, this may have been a good thing as it caused the big 3 to purge the excess and put out a better product at a more competitive price. All three automakers are in better shape today than they were in 2007/2008.

3. While I am a firm believer of a company taking care of it's employees both financially and with benefits, the UAW was too greedy at a very volatile time. The US automakers were in trouble and they asked the UAW to make concessions in order to prevent massive layoffs and factory shut downs, but the UAW refused to oblige. The UAW demands for higher pay and more benefits caused the auto makers to price their already inferior product higher than the competition and in turn caused sales to drop. This also caused the auto makers to open up non-union plants outside of the US.

My post wasn't in reference to the auto workers union, most union members will vote democrat. My post was referring to the poor people who have been poor republicans for generations and still continue to vote republican when it doesn't do a thing to help them. These are mostly the southern bible belt, gun loving Americans from poor red states. This particular demographic appears to hold their religious and 2nd amendment beliefs above their own well being. It's a bit puzzling as to why they do this. I know a handful of folks from these southern states that are by no means well off. However they and the generations before them are firm republican supporters. Their main political points seem to be guns, religion and abortion, rather than how much money is in their bank account.

[millefleur 5,046]

My post wasn't in reference to the auto workers union, most union members will vote democrat. My post was referring to the poor people who have been poor republicans for generations and still continue to vote republican when it doesn't do a thing to help them. These are mostly the southern bible belt, gun loving Americans from poor red states. This particular demographic appears to hold their religious and 2nd amendment beliefs above their own well being. It's a bit puzzling as to why they do this. I know a handful of folks from these southern states that are by no means well off. However they and the generations before them are firm republican supporters. Their main political points seem to be guns, religion and abortion, rather than how much money is in their bank account.

I know it might be shocking to imagine.....but for some Americans, there things more important than how much money is in their bank account. My guess is that it's connected to culture, identity, ethics...it's what they believe in. Religious people often hold many things to be more valuable than their own well-being, it's even encouraged in some religions to think that way. Poverty is also relative. They might seem poor to us, but maybe in their said state, they are actually the better-off ones while there's an even lower underclass (usually minorities) who are barely scraping by.

[smilesammich 10,727]

I know it might be shocking to imagine.....but for some Americans, there things more important than how much money is in their bank account. My guess is that it's connected to culture, identity, ethics...it's what they believe in. Religious people often hold many things to be more valuable than their own well-being, it's even encouraged in some religions to think that way. Poverty is also relative. They might seem poor to us, but maybe in their said state, they are actually the better-off ones while there's an even lower underclass (usually minorities) who are barely scraping by.

yes, exactly - they believe their culture (lol), identity, ethics sets them a part from the 'lower underclass (minorities)' so that, while they may be poor - least they ain't black/illegal = leeches. i see this attitude quite often.

point is, these beliefs are openly manipulated by politicians and this perceived difference in working white poor and lazy minority poor serves as the wedge in keeping the poor working people from rising up as a whole to champion their actual interests - which would be living wages, universal healthcare and investment in infrastructure (which will require money towards the big evil government). further, politicians know there is nothing more pliable than widespread panic over the 'other'. the other taking jobs, the other taking over the country, the other taking the correct god out of in god we trust, etc.

[millefleur 5,046]

yes, exactly - they believe their culture (lol), identity, ethics sets them a part from the 'lower underclass (minorities)' so that, while they may be poor - least they ain't black/illegal = leeches. i see this attitude quite often.

point is, these beliefs are openly manipulated by politicians and this perceived difference in working white poor and lazy minority poor serves as the wedge in keeping the poor working people from rising up as a whole to champion their actual interests - which would be living wages, universal healthcare and investment in infrastructure (which will require money towards the big evil government). further, politicians know there is nothing more pliable than widespread panic over the 'other'. the other taking jobs, the other taking over the country, the other taking the correct god out of in god we trust, etc.

Yup, you basically said the rest of what I wanted to add. I'm not totally sure that the ethics alone set them apart....there are plenty of minorities who also have religion as part of their local culture. Black churches, Latinos are culturally catholic...so I wouldn't really pass judgement on people for that. With me it's just....separation of church and state. Period. End of story.....believe whatever you want, respect/preserve it, but leave it out of politics please.

Edited October 24, 2016 by millefleur

[smilesammich 10,727]

Yup, you basically said the rest of what I wanted to add. I'm not totally sure that the ethics alone set them apart....there are plenty of religious minorities who also have religion as apart of their local culture. Black churches, Latinos are culturally catholic...so I wouldn't really pass judgement on people for that. With me it's just....separation of church and state. Period. End of story.....believe whatever you want, respect/preserve it, but leave it out of politics please.

religious minorities were the block that could have cinched this whole shabang for trump - but he's not a religious person no matter how he's tried to show otherwise during this election, and genuinely religious people can generally see through that. he didn't do himself any favors here..http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-vs-jesus-christ_us_5798e188e4b0d3568f85724a

anyway, i'll be cheering right there with ya "separation of church and state" just as soon as an atheist can get in office as potus. i mean i've pulled up a seat, the wait will be pretty long. until then, separation of church and state is a nice idea we've not fully achieved.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

It is kind of sad. At least on a state level, working class people would be shooting themselves in the foot by voting Republican, they are the ones who keep trying to get rid of Minnesotacare, which is health insurance that covers people who don't qualify for medicaid, but are really too poor to be doing Obamacare. There is no deductibles unlike many other health plans and that can make huge differences for working class families. I just don't get these people, they use medicaid and Minnesotacare, but vote against it?

[millefleur 5,046]

religious minorities were the block that could have cinched this whole shabang for trump - but he's not a religious person no matter how he's tried to show otherwise during this election, and genuinely religious people can generally see through that. he didn't do himself any favors here..http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-vs-jesus-christ_us_5798e188e4b0d3568f85724a

anyway, i'll be cheering right there with ya "separation of church and state" just as soon as an atheist can get in office as potus. i mean i've pulled up a seat, the wait will be pretty long. until then, separation of church and state is a nice idea we've not fully achieved.

Well, after living in Russia where there is a gigantic golden cross that has been erected on top of the courthouse here.....I applaud the US for not getting to that level yet. Have some hope!

Despite endless religious propaganda here, Russia has some of the highest abortion rates in the world and abortion is literally not even an issue here, it's widely accepted and mostly people don't care. Humans are so confusing.

Edited October 24, 2016 by millefleur

[smilesammich 10,727]

Well, after living in Russia where there is a gigantic golden cross that has been erected on top of the courthouse here.....I applaud the US for not getting to that level yet. Have some hope!

Despite religions propaganda here, Russia has some of the highest abortion rates in the world and abortion is literally not even an issue here, it's widely accepted and mostly people don't care. Humans are so confusing.

i don't see the difference between a giant cross at a courthouse and 'in god we trust' on money or 'one nation under god' in the pledge or the little squabbles over if the 10 commandments should be on display in a courthouse etc etc.

[millefleur 5,046]

i don't see the difference between a giant cross at a courthouse and 'in god we trust' on money or 'one nation under god' in the pledge or the little squabbles over if the 10 commandments should be on display in a courthouse etc etc.

Did you know that the "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950's in order to combat the USSR's state atheism?

Well, there is a difference here. I see you're from Canada (or maybe you're the USC) but believe me....it's worse in some other countries. It is. I also don't really like that it's on the money, but the church in the US doesn't have a central power and it's not directly in cahoots with the government like it is here.

Also, it's not just the US who is at fault here. Look at Angela Merkel's party in Germany...plenty of Western democracies still have religion lingering around as part of their ideologies. I honestly don't care what religion the leader has if they aren't corrupt and do a good job as a leader. What about the new Muslim mayor of London....do you have a problem with him since he's public about his faith?