presidency [merged threads]

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Everyone, relax about the "all Muslims" ban. It's just a campaign promise that won't go anywhere. Firstly, it's unconstitutional (freedom of religion) and secondly, how do you ban someone by religion? Make everyone entering the US take mandatory religion tests? Interrogate every single person entering the US about their religion? Create some kind of mind reading device that will determine if someone is a Muslim by scanning their brain?

Or ban a ginormous swath of countries (including US ally Saudi Arabia) from entering the US at all, ever, just because they have majority Muslim populations? Not to mention the actual US citizens who are Muslims....the logistics of such a ban are absurd once you start actually spelling it out in detail.

I understand your anger, but Trump simply wouldn't get something that insane through Congress or the Supreme Court. Let's hope the country still functions with its checks and balances of the president's power. Trump says a lot of things simply to get reactions out of people....this was clearly one of them.

Yeah I don't know why people are all up in arms about the "whole Muslim ban" that he originally said, because it isn't true that he will do that. Also if you listened to the actual whole conversation he just said for a short period of time not indefinitely. But the whole banning of people by someone's country has happened before in the past in this country. It does not say that it is unconstitutional at all, so I don't know where you got that from. He said he wanted limit or ban NEW Muslim immigration to the USA for a short period of time so that checks and balances fix themselves. He said nothing about already green card holders or US citizens at all. I do believe as do others on this thread that he will cut the fat from the government and the red tape. Thus making it easier for LEGAL Immigrants to come here and adjust status.

I don't know why people feed into this narrative that he said all immigration. I do admit that we need to put a huge curtailment on our refugee program and stop letting so many into this country. The refugees actually get more than $20k in services from the government as soon as they arrive in the country and that to me is absurd at the very least. That money and services should be going to our citizens and veterans not to people that have not worked or done anything to deserve those benefits.

http://newobserveronline.com/refugee-costs-us-taxpayers-20k/

Edited September 28, 2016 by cyberfx1024

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Not only is that a gross and incorrect simplification of Trump's immigration platform, I would caution you from assuming how everyone here thinks.

I'm going to list some things that I am against even more than "illegal immigration".

I'm against calling human beings illegal.

I'm against the whole idea of the birth lottery. The concept that where you are born determines your worth and that those who were born here in the U.S. some how inherently deserve opportunities that other people do not, even if they are willing to work and literally put their life on the line for them.

I'm against the idea that illegal immigrants are nothing but bringers of crime and destroyers of the economy. Most, if not all, empirical evidence is against this as well.

I'm against the idea that illegal immigration is a malicious act as so many people make it out to be. As if the intention is to come here and wreck havoc when in so many cases it's about survival and wanting the best for you and your loved ones. Both of which are instinctual human qualities.

I'm against the demonization of Muslims and Mexicans and other racial/religious/cultural groups that Donald Trump has signaled out.

If anyone thinks that illegal immigrants are the biggest issue plaguing this nation then boy, bye.

Please will you listen SJW. Yes there are Illegals that come to this country either by legitimate ways and stay beyond what they are supposed to, and there are Illegals that just came into this country Illegal. They are both Illegal and do not deserve to be in this country sucking up the services and benefits that are supposed to go to Legal Immigrants and Citizens.

Illegals do take up alot of resources from the government and that is a fact. All you have to do is look at California for that. They are in the work places bringing down wages for what used to be very good jobs for blue collar workers like construction for example. Yes, the birth lottery is real and it does suck honestly. But it is documented proof that largely Illegal neighborhoods have a large amount of crime. Also just look at the crime down along the border in Texas, and the Illegals causing the crime there.

I know some Illegal Immigrants that live right down the street from me and they are not criminal at all. But what Trump was saying is that the Mexican government does everything they can to ensure that there criminals make it up here sometimes 3,4,5 times instead of staying in Mexico. That way they are our problem and not theirs.

You sound like someone who just wants open borders or no borders at all. I am sorry that does not work in reality, in order to control who comes into a country you need to have a border and proper ways to protect it. If you think the US is so bad to Illegals then go to Mexico where they are actually building a wall on their southern border. But then get mad when we want to build one as well.

[Jacque67 7,328]

If Trump becomes president, all CABA's will be in jeopardy of deportation and those deported will be replaced by hot RUB chicks.

Sounds a great deal!!!!!

Please will you listen SJW. Yes there are Illegals that come to this country either by legitimate ways and stay beyond what they are supposed to, and there are Illegals that just came into this country Illegal. They are both Illegal and do not deserve to be in this country sucking up the services and benefits that are supposed to go to Legal Immigrants and Citizens.

Illegals do take up alot of resources from the government and that is a fact. All you have to do is look at California for that. They are in the work places bringing down wages for what used to be very good jobs for blue collar workers like construction for example. Yes, the birth lottery is real and it does suck honestly. But it is documented proof that largely Illegal neighborhoods have a large amount of crime. Also just look at the crime down along the border in Texas, and the Illegals causing the crime there.

I know some Illegal Immigrants that live right down the street from me and they are not criminal at all. But what Trump was saying is that the Mexican government does everything they can to ensure that there criminals make it up here sometimes 3,4,5 times instead of staying in Mexico. That way they are our problem and not theirs.

You sound like someone who just wants open borders or no borders at all. I am sorry that does not work in reality, in order to control who comes into a country you need to have a border and proper ways to protect it. If you think the US is so bad to Illegals then go to Mexico where they are actually building a wall on their southern border. But then get mad when we want to build one as well.

#conwaywatchout!!!!!

[Teddy B 17,252]

Sounds a great deal!!!!!

There will be monthly weigh ins and Cheetos will be outlawed!

[Boiler 45,493]

There will be monthly weigh ins and Cheetos will be outlawed!

Vote Trump!

[Boiler 45,493]

I would not vote for Trump unless I were paid $1mil,

What about a supply of RUB chics, vetted?

[Teddy B 17,252]

What about a supply of RUB chics, vetted?

Thrown in a Wendy's #1 w/bacon value meal and I'm in! (biggie size of course)

[squareleg 69]

Correct me if I'm wrong but did Trump not say that he wants to temporarily ban the immigration of Muslims into this country? I am Muslim, my husband is Muslim....so yes, we are worried. If Trump wins, no one else does.

Going by the recent incidents in Orlando, San Bernardino, NYC etc. to name a few. Your country could be one of the compromised countries that Trump highlighted in his ban. It appears that current controls are not working to keep a check on bad guys/gals.

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

Please will you listen SJW. Yes there are Illegals that come to this country either by legitimate ways and stay beyond what they are supposed to, and there are Illegals that just came into this country Illegal. They are both Illegal and do not deserve to be in this country sucking up the services and benefits that are supposed to go to Legal Immigrants and Citizens.

Illegals do take up alot of resources from the government and that is a fact. All you have to do is look at California for that. They are in the work places bringing down wages for what used to be very good jobs for blue collar workers like construction for example. Yes, the birth lottery is real and it does suck honestly. But it is documented proof that largely Illegal neighborhoods have a large amount of crime. Also just look at the crime down along the border in Texas, and the Illegals causing the crime there.

I know some Illegal Immigrants that live right down the street from me and they are not criminal at all. But what Trump was saying is that the Mexican government does everything they can to ensure that there criminals make it up here sometimes 3,4,5 times instead of staying in Mexico. That way they are our problem and not theirs.

You sound like someone who just wants open borders or no borders at all. I am sorry that does not work in reality, in order to control who comes into a country you need to have a border and proper ways to protect it. If you think the US is so bad to Illegals then go to Mexico where they are actually building a wall on their southern border. But then get mad when we want to build one as well.

"Please will you listen SJW"? I mean, okay. I have multiple college degrees, including a Masters in Refugee and Forced Migration Studies, but I am sure you can "learn" me a thing or two.

You say that "illegals" are taking up a lot** of resources from the government but then your example of that is wages being brought down in California because of migrant workers? Those are two different things? Can you give a factual representation (and by factual I don't mean one article from a clearly biased website like the one you posted above) of the cost of illegal immigrants as a significant percentage of government spending?

As for your complaint illegal immigrants are driving down blue collar wages in California? Blue collar wages have gone down nation wide since the early 2000's, it's not just a problem for California, or other immigrant-heavy states. There is plenty of publications on wage stagnation you can help yourself to, and the cause has already been fleshed out. Surprise! It's not immigrants leading the problem. Shipping jobs overseas, automation, and just general wage stagnation due to the recession are the culprits.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-04-06/factory-worker-wages-are-nothing-special-these-days

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-blue-collar-jobs-are-dissapearing-2012-1

As for the documented proof that illegal immigrant neighborhoods produce more crime, again, can you please show me where you are getting this information? If anything, that sounds like a correlative relationship rather than a causal one. Neighborhoods with more poverty also generally have more crime, and since illegal immigrants are usually living in these high-poverty areas due to limits to their upward mobility, it's much more likely that it's an income issue, not an immigrant issue. Here are also some fun readings you can do on the false claim that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/16/voices-gomez-undocumented-immigrant-crime-san-francisco-shooting/30159479/

I'm actually not to sure what to say about the claim that the Mexican government is intentionally sending criminals here as that sounds entirely outlandish. Can you provide some documentation for that too?

Also, just a tip for the future, here is a cool site where you can find out of the sources you are using are reputable/have a bias or not -> http://www.allsides.com/bias/bias-ratings

[KierenHby 899]

Going by the recent incidents in Orlando, San Bernardino, NYC etc. to name a few. Your country could be one of the compromised countries that Trump highlighted in his ban. It appears that current controls are not working to keep a check on bad guys/gals.

Trump didn't highlight any particular country. Let's not make this a Pakistan-bashing forum.

[squareleg 69]

Trump didn't highlight any particular country. Let's not make this a Pakistan-bashing forum.

There is no bashing. Just noting that it potentially (factually) is one of the countries with compromised security.

[Boiler 45,493]

"Please will you listen SJW"? I mean, okay. I have multiple college degrees, including a Masters in Refugee and Forced Migration Studies, but I am sure you can "learn" me a thing or two.

You have to have a Master's to be a SJW?

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

You have to have a Master's to be a SJW?

No. My point was I don't appreciate being referred to with condescending titles that hold negative connotations when I have professional credentials relevant to the matter I am speaking about.

Edited September 28, 2016 by MorganandMichael

[millefleur 5,046]

"Please will you listen SJW"? I mean, okay. I have multiple college degrees, including a Masters in Refugee and Forced Migration Studies, but I am sure you can "learn" me a thing or two.

You say that "illegals" are taking up a lot** of resources from the government but then your example of that is wages being brought down in California because of migrant workers? Those are two different things? Can you give a factual representation (and by factual I don't mean one article from a clearly biased website like the one you posted above) of the cost of illegal immigrants as a significant percentage of government spending?

As for your complaint illegal immigrants are driving down blue collar wages in California? Blue collar wages have gone down nation wide since the early 2000's, it's not just a problem for California, or other immigrant-heavy states. There is plenty of publications on wage stagnation you can help yourself to, and the cause has already been fleshed out. Surprise! It's not immigrants leading the problem. Shipping jobs overseas, automation, and just general wage stagnation due to the recession are the culprits.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-04-06/factory-worker-wages-are-nothing-special-these-days

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-blue-collar-jobs-are-dissapearing-2012-1

As for the documented proof that illegal immigrant neighborhoods produce more crime, again, can you please show me where you are getting this information? If anything, that sounds like a correlative relationship rather than a causal one. Neighborhoods with more poverty also generally have more crime, and since illegal immigrants are usually living in these high-poverty areas due to limits to their upward mobility, it's much more likely that it's an income issue, not an immigrant issue. Here are also some fun readings you can do on the false claim that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/16/voices-gomez-undocumented-immigrant-crime-san-francisco-shooting/30159479/

I'm actually not to sure what to say about the claim that the Mexican government is intentionally sending criminals here as that sounds entirely outlandish. Can you provide some documentation for that too?

Also, just a tip for the future, here is a cool site where you can find out of the sources you are using are reputable/have a bias or not -> http://www.allsides.com/bias/bias-ratings

Thanks for the links. Hadn't see that bias site before. A right/left only scale is a little overly simplified, but helpful still.

Since it's an income/economic issue for both illegal immigrants and blue collar workers as your sources have pointed out, what solution do you propose or support?

Edited September 28, 2016 by millefleur

[Boiler 45,493]

Seems that you have been here just a few months, US is not the UK, things are different.

As an aside even the Guardian now acknowledges the impact of migration and its negative effects on those earning low wages, zero hour contracts etc etc.

Supply and demand.