How to File Marriage?

[rboston 1]

"Past the deadline"?! What in the world are you talking about? Have you not seen her for 2 years? It doesn't mean that you have to have met for the first time in the past two years. It means that you have to have been physically present with each other at least one time in the past two years......

Our wedding is in late November. We don't have time to apply for and receive a K1 by then. It won't work anyway, because she needs to go back in January, and by the time she can come to stay we won't be fiancees anymore.

[rboston 1]

But you are asking those witnesses and minister to lie to say they witnessed the ceremony in North Carolina. Which they did not.

Let me repeat scenario two:

Get a form from NC.

Go to Costa Rica.

Have a "celebration of love" which consists of my bride and I saying vows of love in front of friends and family.

Fly back to NC with minister and two witnesses.

In NC, have the wedding, which will consist of minister, two witnesses, wife, I, signing a sheet of paper.

Handing that piece of paper to a clerk.

[JFH 12,190]

But you are asking those witnesses and minister to lie to say they witnessed the ceremony in North Carolina. Which they did not.

Also, your "wife" would need to sign it in NC too. All, of you sign a marriage certificate - bride, groom, minister, witnesses.

One NC county (Wake) has helpfully provided a sample of what an NC marriage certificate looks like

http://www.wakegov.com/rod/vitalrecords/marriage/Pages/samplemarriagecertificate.aspx

The minister has signed a declaration that the said two people were married before him/her on x date in x county. So it would be a lie if the marriage happens in CR and you subsequently ask the minister to sign that it happened in NC on a later date.

Edited September 16, 2016 by JFH

[JFH 12,190]

Let me repeat scenario two:

Get a form from NC.

Go to Costa Rica.

Have a "celebration of love" which consists of my bride and I saying vows of love in front of friends and family.

Fly back to NC with minister and two witnesses.

In NC, have the wedding, which will consist of minister, two witnesses, wife, I, signing a sheet of paper.

Handing that piece of paper to a clerk.

Yep, that's a normal NC wedding. No need to even fly the paper to CR. Just bring your wife to NC, get the licence, find a minister and a couple of witnesses and get married. Why all the fuss? This is what we have said all along. This is a legal marriage. The CR ceremony will just be for dressing up and photos and a chance for her family to throw a party. You will be legally married in NC and that's the date you will use officially.

[Pennycat 880]

Let me repeat scenario two:

Get a form from NC.

Go to Costa Rica.

Have a "celebration of love" which consists of my bride and I saying vows of love in front of friends and family.

Fly back to NC with minister and two witnesses.

In NC, have the wedding, which will consist of minister, two witnesses, wife, I, signing a sheet of paper.

Handing that piece of paper to a clerk.

Yes. That works. The key here is that you included your wife this time. Before, you kept saying "I fly back" or "minister submits licence" etc, making it sound like you were going to leave her in Costa Rica and finish up the paperwork without her in NC, or have the minister and witnesses sign in CR as if the whole thing happened in NC---which just can't happen.

Yes, you can have a non-legal ceremony in Costa Rica, and then a civil ceremony in the US on a B2 visa in North Carolina, not stay and adjust, but apply for CR1 while she finishes her last year of school. Your legal marriage date will be the North Carolina date, but you are free to consider it whatever you like. We still haven't decided for ourselves what we're going to celebrate (we've got a choice of 3 now, but the only one USCIS cares about was December).

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

http://dconc.gov/government/departments-f-z/register-of-deeds/on-line-marriage-license-application

Requirements for obtaining a Marriage License in Durham County, North Carolina
• Applicants must not already be married.
• Applicants must be getting married within 60 days of license issuance.
• Applicants must be getting married in the State of North Carolina.
• $60.00 (Cash Only) is the fee to obtain a marriage license.

[yuna628 9,677]

That's not really an issue for us. We're just going to tell them we had our wedding in Costa Rica on our wedding date. We'll wait until we got to NC to have a "civil ceremony", which will consist of five people signing a sheet of paper over a course of three minutes. The religious ceremony in front of family is the one that matters to us, so that's what we call our wedding date.

I apologize if I sound stubborn, but I don't even begin to understand this.

Consider two situations:

1) I get a form from NC, I go to Costa Rica and have a wedding, witnesses and minister there sign it there, I come back to NC and submit the signed marriage license.

2) I get a form from NC, I go to Costa Rica and have a celebration with friends and family that consists of my bride and I saying vows of our love to one another, witnesses and minister get on the plane with us and fly to NC and sign the form here saying we were married (and promptly all leave), and we submit the forms in NC.

The only real difference I can see between 1 and 2 is about $2000 of plane tickets and some extra hassle.

1) Not Legal.

2) Not Legal.

Why is it not legal? Because:

You are not marrying within the state of North Carolina. Using a North Carolina marriage document in another country constitutes FRAUD. If, what you propose is your way to ''get around'' this, is to have the minister and witnesses lie and state you were married in North Carolina, this is lying, fraud, and a criminal offense in the US. Your marriage will not be valid because you are frauding the state and your marriage did not legally take place in the state. You will neither be legally married in Costa Rica either, as you will not have followed the proper legal process there. If you continue to further lie to the USCIS that you are legally married when your marriage is invalid.... both of you will get yourselves into heap of trouble.

Other reasons why the marriage would not be legal or valid? Because the minister would not be licensed to perform marriages in the US, and would not be licensed to perform marriages in the state of NC.

The second one is totally legal. North Carolina doesn't define a wedding, beyond having a minister and two witnesses signing a sheet of paper. If I have a minister and two witnesses sign a sheet of paper in North Carolina, then I was legally married in North Carolina.

No. North Carolina defines marriage as having a minister licensed to marry in that state and within the US only, perform that marriage WITHIN the STATE of NC before two witnesses. The ceremony you propose will not be performed in the state of North Carolina, and the entire lot of you will be engaging in fraud.

Even if you conjecture this with having a 'non legal ceremony of love' in Costa Rica, and returning to the US with that same minister who is not legally able to marry you in the state and have a 'do-over' civil wedding, this is in violation of statute.

The only way to get around this is to have a 'non legal ceremony of love' in Costa Rica, return to the US with your fiancé, and file paperwork with NC and have the civil ceremony performed by the clerk of the court or officiant that is licensed to marry in that state. But what exactly would be the point of this? When you could simply just have gone to Costa Rica and officially married her from the get-go, OR vice-versa, had her fly in to NC, marry legally, and return home?

Let me repeat scenario two:

Get a form from NC.

Go to Costa Rica.

Have a "celebration of love" which consists of my bride and I saying vows of love in front of friends and family.

Fly back to NC with minister and two witnesses.

In NC, have the wedding, which will consist of minister, two witnesses, wife, I, signing a sheet of paper.

Handing that piece of paper to a clerk.

Here is the proper scenario:

Obtain a NC marriage license. Have your fiancé arrive in the US. Marry her before the clerk of the court or minister that is legally able to perform a marriage within the state of NC. Your wife returns home. File for a spousal visa. Your marriage is legal, valid, and recognized by the US.

OR.

Go to Costa Rica and file the appropriate paperwork with the government in order to marry your fiancé. The state of NC is not involved and no license from NC is needed. Marry your fiancé in Costa Rica. Obtain marriage certificate and translation from Costa Rica. Go home and file for a spousal visa. Your marriage is legal, valid, and recognized by the US.

If you have some doubt about what everyone here is saying to you, my suggestion would be to contact your local court of clerk and take the matter up with them. I would be completely honest and open about your idea and see what they say. I'm confident their answer would help clear up any confusion in the decision immediately.

Edited September 16, 2016 by yuna628

[yuna628 9,677]

By the way, even if the foreign minister were to return with you (which is a pretty odd suggestion to me) and sign the document claiming you married within the state of North Carolina, when you did not, this is still fraud because the ceremony was not performed there. Even if NC has no restrictions on the licensing of a foreign minister, the suggestion of signing a document attesting that a marriage took place in a location when it did not, is still fraud.

No one here on this forum can suggest that this is a good or proper thing to do and because being legally married is needed to pursue a spousal visa, no one here is going to suggest doing something that is in violation of the TOS.

At any rate, if you don't wish to believe people on the forum, clear the matter up with the clerk of the court.

[Pennycat 880]

Somewhere in the middle of this, and without making it clear, OP changed the idea. Now he's wanting to have a religious ceremony/ celebration of love/ whatever in CR, then fly to the US with the fiancee who already has a B1/B2 visa (for Christmas if I recall correctly) and take care of the civil there, file for the CR1 visa and wait for it while she finishes her last year of medical school. Not sure how this all went down the rabbit hole, but I'd say that's a fairly straightforward path that lots of folks have been on. The key, I think, is that OP may consider the religious part the "real" part and the civil part as the necessary paperwork (and I think a lot of us feel this way), but for the purposes of immigration it's the exact opposite but the way he talks about it, plus the original idea that was never clarified made this whole thing a mess.

This whole time the minister was going to be his own minister-- not a Costa Rican one (which is good because last I checked-- which admittedly was a long time ago-- only Catholic priests and lawyers and judges can perform marriages in Costa Rica, and the use of "minister" makes me 99% sure it's not Catholic).

Edited September 16, 2016 by CatherineA

[yuna628 9,677]

Somewhere in the middle of this, and without making it clear, OP changed the idea. Now he's wanting to have a religious ceremony/ celebration of love/ whatever in CR, then fly to the US with the fiancee who already has a B1/B2 visa (for Christmas if I recall correctly) and take care of the civil there, file for the CR1 visa and wait for it while she finishes her last year of medical school. Not sure how this all went down the rabbit hole, but I'd say that's a fairly straightforward path that lots of folks have been on. The key, I think, is that OP may consider the religious part the "real" part and the civil part as the necessary paperwork (and I think a lot of us feel this way), but for the purposes of immigration it's the exact opposite but the way he talks about it, plus the original idea that was never clarified made this whole thing a mess.

This whole time the minister was going to be his own minister-- not a Costa Rican one (which is good because last I checked-- which admittedly was a long time ago-- only Catholic priests and lawyers and judges can perform marriages in Costa Rica, and the use of "minister" makes me 99% sure it's not Catholic).

If the OP is indeed saying two ceremonies will actually be performed, and not saying that the minister will simply just say it has been performed in NC that is fine. I was also concerned/worried about in reverse, if it was legal for an American minister to be able to perform any ceremony in Costa Rica without some sort of appropriate documentation. It unfortunately doesn't matter if one is married in the ''eyes of god'' and how real that is to us, when it comes down to the state - what matters is the paperwork and process being done in the manner they want it to. I sincerely hope the OP does realize how important it is.

[rboston 1]

Somewhere in the middle of this, and without making it clear, OP changed the idea. Now he's wanting to have a religious ceremony/ celebration of love/ whatever in CR, then fly to the US with the fiancee who already has a B1/B2 visa (for Christmas if I recall correctly) and take care of the civil there, file for the CR1 visa and wait for it while she finishes her last year of medical school. Not sure how this all went down the rabbit hole, but I'd say that's a fairly straightforward path that lots of folks have been on. The key, I think, is that OP may consider the religious part the "real" part and the civil part as the necessary paperwork (and I think a lot of us feel this way), but for the purposes of immigration it's the exact opposite but the way he talks about it, plus the original idea that was never clarified made this whole thing a mess.

This whole time the minister was going to be his own minister-- not a Costa Rican one (which is good because last I checked-- which admittedly was a long time ago-- only Catholic priests and lawyers and judges can perform marriages in Costa Rica, and the use of "minister" makes me 99% sure it's not Catholic).

Thank you for helping to clear this up with people.

No, we aren't Catholic. If we were, this whole thing would be a lot simpler. The minister lives in my home state (NOT North Carolina). Most people here probably don't know this, but Costa Rica is an officially Catholic country; the only church with weddings officially recognized by the state is the Roman Catholic Church. For two Protestants to get married, it can only be a civil service; we'd have to go through the additional hassle of judges and lawyers from there, in addition to translation and mailing issues (and the CR post office is practically nonexistent - some companies employ their own in-house couriers to deliver bills).

That's obviously not how it works in the US. Any minister (priest/pastor/imam/yogi/boddhisttava/even atheists) can officiate, all you need is some signatures, and you turn in a form, and that's it. It's such an easier process.

Our original plan was to get a NC marriage license, fly there, have the ceremony, sign the piece of paper in CR, fly back, hand them the piece of paper in NC. It's the simplest because we already have a minister, all he needs to do is put his signature on a sheet of paper.

Right, right, TOS and all that. I did just call the County Clerk, has to be in North Carolina. No doubt exists in my mind (nor has it since page 1 of this thread) that that isn't how marriage licenses work.

The County Clerk did say we can go there and it's an extra $20 on top of the license fee to get everything signed in front of a magistrate. Which is a lot easier actually than the original plan (I was going to need an affidavit for her absence). Barring simpler alternatives, that's what we'll do.

What worries me about this is when she enters the country. I'm worried about her getting denied at the border. She's had some near-misses when coming here before. At that point we won't be "officially married" and we won't have any of the CR-1 paperwork started. She'll need to say that she intends to get married inside the US, and that's going to throw up red flags. She might be able to prove she'll be in school, but I don't know if her school will give her that form (issue with matriculation dates).

[rboston 1]

It unfortunately doesn't matter if one is married in the ''eyes of god'' and how real that is to us, when it comes down to the state - what matters is the paperwork and process being done in the manner they want it to. I sincerely hope the OP does realize how important it is.

Which is exactly why they won't care and it won't be marriage fraud that we had a ceremony in CR if we don't file any paperwork there, contrary to what multiple people have asserted.

[JFH 12,190]

She only needs to say she will be getting married when she arrives at the border if she is specifically asked that question. Only answer the question that is asked and never volunteer additional information.

Keep the answers brief and to the point.

I've made over 40 successful entries both before and after marriage. Only been sent to secondary once (and that was right at the beginning of our relationship).

Edited September 16, 2016 by JFH

[Pennycat 880]

Thank you for helping to clear this up with people.

No, we aren't Catholic. If we were, this whole thing would be a lot simpler. The minister lives in my home state (NOT North Carolina). Most people here probably don't know this, but Costa Rica is an officially Catholic country; the only church with weddings officially recognized by the state is the Roman Catholic Church. For two Protestants to get married, it can only be a civil service; we'd have to go through the additional hassle of judges and lawyers from there, in addition to translation and mailing issues (and the CR post office is practically nonexistent - some companies employ their own in-house couriers to deliver bills).

That's obviously not how it works in the US. Any minister (priest/pastor/imam/yogi/boddhisttava/even atheists) can officiate, all you need is some signatures, and you turn in a form, and that's it. It's such an easier process.

Our original plan was to get a NC marriage license, fly there, have the ceremony, sign the piece of paper in CR, fly back, hand them the piece of paper in NC. It's the simplest because we already have a minister, all he needs to do is put his signature on a sheet of paper.

Right, right, TOS and all that. I did just call the County Clerk, has to be in North Carolina. No doubt exists in my mind (nor has it since page 1 of this thread) that that isn't how marriage licenses work.

The County Clerk did say we can go there and it's an extra $20 on top of the license fee to get everything signed in front of a magistrate. Which is a lot easier actually than the original plan (I was going to need an affidavit for her absence). Barring simpler alternatives, that's what we'll do.

What worries me about this is when she enters the country. I'm worried about her getting denied at the border. She's had some near-misses when coming here before. At that point we won't be "officially married" and we won't have any of the CR-1 paperwork started. She'll need to say that she intends to get married inside the US, and that's going to throw up red flags. She might be able to prove she'll be in school, but I don't know if her school will give her that form (issue with matriculation dates).

I'd say most people here are familiar with the concept of other countries having national religions and slow/ unreliable public postal service. Essentially, this entire hemisphere except the US and Canada is officially Catholic. Then most of the countries in the Middle East/ North Africa are officially Muslim etc all with varying degrees of what that means for what you can and cannot do and who can and cannot sign a marriage certificate. And Costa Rica's mail system is actually good by worldwide standards. And actually exists. But you won't be using it for important documents anyway because that's just not what one does. I didn't and wouldn't use USPS for anything serious in the US.

If you wanted to take care of everything in Costa Rica (which you don't), it's not that hard either. You'd just have the ceremony performed by whoever you want, but the paper signed by a lawyer or notary. It's an extra step, sure, but not complicated. Lots of people do it, here and in Costa Rica. Just think about the destination wedding business there. If it was in any way shape or form nearly as complicated as you think, there is NO way so many people would travel from all of the world to get married in Costa Rica. I'm sure some of them take care of the legalities in their home countries either before or after a non-legal ceremony in CR, but not all.

But you want a US marriage certificate for your own reasons (you think you'll have your hands on it faster and you won't have to translate it, and that's fine, if it's worth flying her to the US for). It should be clear by now (and it sounds like it is now that you've heard it from the horse's mouth) that the only way that's possible is for you both to be in the US, in the same state, and have someone who is authorized to marry people in that state sign a marriage licence issued by that state in front of however many witnesses mandated by that state, and with whatever "magic words" that state may or may not require. There is no other option. The magistrate plan sounds great to me (side note: while a "proxy marriage"-- a marriage that occurs when one half of the couple is not present is legal in some states, USCIS does not accept them for immigration purposes. So forget about that affadivit for her absence-- you really are looking for any way possible to go "off script").

She's not going to run too much higher of a risk coming for that visit as she has on others (though some I'm sure)-- she just needs to bring clear and convincing evidence that she's going to go back. Her lease, her receipt from medical school tuition, whatever. She doesn't have to volunteer information to CBP but she needs to answer honestly. Honestly, I think that they'd be more likely to believe "yes we're getting legally married so we can file for a spouse visa while I finish my studies" and has evidence of intending to go back than someone says "just visiting my boyfriend" and has no proof of ties back home. But yes, this is a potential risk with your plan and which is part of the reason why I've said multiple times now that your easiest and most straightforward path is to take care of everything in Costa Rica. If she gets denied at the border, that's what you'll have to do anyway, and then you'll have lost the time you're trying to "save" by not waiting on the Registro Civil.

[rboston 1]

(side note: while a "proxy marriage"-- a marriage that occurs when one half of the couple is not present is legal in some states, USCIS does not accept them for immigration purposes. So forget about that affadivit for her absence-- you really are looking for any way possible to go "off script").

Proxy marriage never even crossed our mind. In NC, both parties have to go to the records office to request the license itself. If one party can't (e.g. if one party is in a foreign country at the time), you need an affidavit of absence to request the license. That isn't about proxy marriage, though, that's about picking up the license.