The Black Body Count Rises as Chicago Police Step Back

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Honestly, if I were you I'll concede that I'd be pretty fed up with the "what about black on black crime!?" argument. The point I'm trying to make is not that police brutality isn't a thing. It is. It affects Americans of all skin colors, and perhaps especially blacks and Hispanics. This again can be attributed to the fact that people in poorer neighborhoods have far more encounters with police than people in middle and upper class neighborhoods - And a disproportionate number of blacks and Hispanics live in poorer neighborhoods. While many Hispanic families have heads of households making less than minimum wage due to immigration status (estimated 18%), income disparities for black Americans can easily be attributed in large due to historic injustices. I'm not sure that I've ever met a single person who seriously disputes that.

But frankly, BLM's tactics and strategy is akin to setting itself up for that sort of argumentation from the other side. You can speak up against police brutality and people will listen. Or, you can do what BLM, the media and campus activists have been doing for the past few years - Politicize an issue that has no one political home. Make the case that we have an epidemic of gestapo police officers indiscriminately murdering black people for target practice. If you make a case for the apocalypse, don't expect the other side to answer with reason and deep insight.

What I miss from BLM is pan-political appeal, self reflection and intelligent debate - Kind of what I spent 20 years missing from the religious right on most social issues.

But this is how polarized we are as a nation today. Arguing with people on the far left/far right is generally like speaking to a wall.

But, here's the problem, it's happened. The bridge incident. The incident where they shot that kid 16 times while he was walking away from the cops. Where the guy was killed in front of his girl and child. Or the dude who was shot in Walmart. Or the emails that show a cop going into detail about how to frame black men. Or the reports that show PD's are rife with police bias towards black people.

So my question is, how do you make the case? Because when I got a PD that's got officers high fiving after they just shot and killed an unarmed black teen, what can we say to that?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I completely agree with you in that we need dialogue. Dialogue, and dialogue only, can solve any of this. I do understand your frustration as far as arguing certain topics and the replies that you get. However, here's what it sounds like from the other side:

Us: Statistics don't show an epidemic of —

You: That's just your white privilege speaking! Shut up whitey!

Us: Let’s discuss the inequities in education, employment, housing—

You: It's because white supremacy!

Us: It looks like the Zika virus is spreading to—

You: It’s not spreading as fast as racism, xenophobia, white supremacy, Islamophobia, transphobia, sexism and homophobia!

Us: Have you seen this woman who went missing?

You: Why do we only care about it when a white woman goes missing??

Trolls exist everywhere. They're on the far left, they're on the far right, and their only function is to try to get a reaction. The fringes of the alt right and social justice warrior brigades probably are your stereotypical 40-year-old in mom's basement. Or maybe 16-year-olds with nothing better to do. The problem in society today is that political statements have largely turned into out-of-context internet memes and 140 character trolling tweets. The vast majority of our political interactions happen with people whom we either don't know or don't see face-to-face, or both.

But even without trolls, memes and tweets. I do think that identity politics and this immense fixation on race - Even on race related issues, is counter-productive at best, incredibly dangerous at worst.

Touche. I've seen some black people do this. Problem is, this isn't just trolls. I've had educated white men and women(one case a Mexican dude who was my friend got into it about the TM debacle, guess which stat he fell back on) come to me with this. Which is funny, because I don't accuse anyone IRL they suffer from WP. What I do is point out the comparisons.

That's the difference, I can only throw WP when it's applicable. Any other time I'd sound like an idiot. Blk on Blk crime is interchangeable, it's like the perfect pair of shoes. It goes with everything.

[JayJayH 546]

But, here's the problem, it's happened. The bridge incident. The incident where they shot that kid 16 times while he was walking away from the cops. Where the guy was killed in front of his girl and child. Or the dude who was shot in Walmart. Or the emails that show a cop going into detail about how to frame black men. Or the reports that show PD's are rife with police bias towards black people.

So my question is, how do you make the case? Because when I got a PD that's got officers high fiving after they just shot and killed an unarmed black teen, what can we say to that?

First of all, I think it helps to put into perspective that in 2015, 102 unarmed black people were killed by police. That's 0.0002% of the black population of America, meaning 99.9998% of black Americans were not unarmed black people killed by police. We can then discuss back and forth how many of them were violent or charging at police and how many were truly murdered for no reason whatsoever. The point is, at least some of them were killed as result of unjustifiable police brutality. I just find the popular narrative quite.. Sensationalist in nature. Either way, it is an important issue, and it is one that should be discussed in the open.

I think the BLM protests were effective at first in that they garnered national attention around a topic that, let's face it, wasn't discussed as much as it should have been. That's what protests are ultimately good for - Create national attention. When attention is on your topic of interest, the ball is sort of in your court. This is where I wish BLM had turned into more of a non-partisan, well-organized movement than the messy partisan protest organization it is today. I say "messy" because BLM has allowed nearly anything to fly under their banner, be it shutting down the 405 freeway in LA, or marching the streets of Brooklyn shouting "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!" I think most people know that BLM is not advocating for dead cops. But just like "Republicans hate gays" became the brand they created for themselves by failing to rein in their crazies, BLM has become synonymous with rioting, looting, polarizing slogans and disruptive in-your-face activism to something like 50% of American voters.

What's worse I think, is that a climate has developed where questioning BLM's tactics (note, not message) is now construed as racist by scores of well-meaning idiots.

In a polarized political climate, the opposing side is going to take anything they can to paint you in a certain light. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. At this point, there is nothing what so ever the GOP can really say to make the LGBT community forget about Kim Davis and Mike Huckabee. Likewise, there is virtually nothing BLM can do to make conservatives forget about "What do we want? Dead cops!" and thus the short step from there to Dallas.

So when BLM had national attention following Ferguson, and the ball was in their court, I wish there had been more focus on cooperation with law enforcement, with a leadership that publicly came down hard on fringe activists - Attempting to come to some mutual understanding rather than accusations back and forth. I think BLM has some very legitimate concerns, and likewise I think various PDs have some very legitimate concerns. In the end, the vast majority of police officers are husbands, fathers, sons and daughters who are going home to their families after work, and so are the people in the communities they police. When your work place is the south side of Chicago or inner city Baltimore at 2am, I think the burden of proof to convict you, frankly, should be high. The last thing you want is for police officers to avoid those areas, which is now happening in Chicago. Likewise, there are few things worse than an innocent person being murdered by the very people whose sworn duty it is to protect them.

Right now, it seems like every time a cop pulls a trigger, hordes of protesters come out shouting questionable slogans at a situation they really know nothing about.

Likewise, on the right, scores of people are ready to make generalized statements about a dead person whose life they nothing nothing about.

That's not effective protest from either side. That's polarization in a nut shell.

Touche. I've seen some black people do this. Problem is, this isn't just trolls. I've had educated white men and women(one case a Mexican dude who was my friend got into it about the TM debacle, guess which stat he fell back on) come to me with this. Which is funny, because I don't accuse anyone IRL they suffer from WP. What I do is point out the comparisons.

That's the difference, I can only throw WP when it's applicable. Any other time I'd sound like an idiot. Blk on Blk crime is interchangeable, it's like the perfect pair of shoes. It goes with everything.

As much as I cringe at virtually everything social justicy, I have no problem conceding that there are circumstances in which white people in this country have privilege. I used to joke with my black roommate back in the day that I should drive when we went to Jack in the Box at 1am, in case we got pulled over. There was obviously some truth behind this, sadly, as I've experienced and witnessed first hand. Am I weary of calling it white-specific privilege? Yes. Because 1. it is incredibly polarizing - Singling out people based on race is rarely ever a winning strategy (unless it's harmless humor), and 2. cops were usually even easier on my Asian college roommate than they ever were on me.

Edited September 14, 2016 by JayJayH

[OriZ 3,157]

As much as I cringe at virtually everything social justicy, I have no problem conceding that there are circumstances in which white people in this country have privilege. I used to joke with my black roommate back in the day that I should drive when we went to Jack in the Box at 1am, in case we got pulled over. There was obviously some truth behind this, sadly, as I've experienced and witnessed first hand. Am I weary of calling it white-specific privilege? Yes. Because 1. it is incredibly polarizing - Singling out people based on race is rarely ever a winning strategy (unless it's harmless humor), and 2. cops were usually even easier on my Asian college roommate than they ever were on me.

Which just goes to show they go based on their experiences, and not just home bred hate. If they are used to black drivers being more difficult to deal with than white drivers, and white drivers being more difficult to deal with than Asian drivers, of course they will approach each appropriately, not because they are racist but because they have a job to do and they need to get back home alive as well.

Edited September 14, 2016 by OriZ

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

But, here's the problem, it's happened. The bridge incident. The incident where they shot that kid 16 times while he was walking away from the cops. Where the guy was killed in front of his girl and child. Or the dude who was shot in Walmart. Or the emails that show a cop going into detail about how to frame black men. Or the reports that show PD's are rife with police bias towards black people.

So my question is, how do you make the case? Because when I got a PD that's got officers high fiving after they just shot and killed an unarmed black teen, what can we say to that?

Maybe if you want to save as many young black lives as possible you could get you BLM buddies and head here . Most bang for the buck

http://apps.chicagotribune.com/news/local/young_victims/

Young victims of violence in Chicago

By Alex Bordens and Abraham Epton

CHICAGO TRIBUNE (2016)

UPDATED AUTOMATICALLY WITH DATA COLLECTED BY

THE TRIBUNE BREAKING NEWS DESK

Chicago's violence doesn't have an age limit. Since September 2011, at least 117 people under 17 have been killed in shootings and at least 1,236 people in that age group have been shot. The Tribune will be updating this page as often as we receive reports of children under 17 shot or killed in Chicago.

The dots below reflect the stories of young lives ended too soon. Hover over them to see their names, and click on them to read our coverage. The map at the bottom has the names of the victims, when available, and the locations of the shootings.

About 9.45 percent of shootings and 0.89 percent of homicides in the Tribune's database do not include an age, so the actual number of incidents could be slightly higher than what is represented here.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Who are "white people"?

Ashkenazi Jews never encountered racism or oppression? Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Greek immigrants etc. etc. etc. were all subject to widespread discrimination. JFK being catholic was enough for millions of Americans not to vote for him. During WW2, German and Italian Americans were placed in internment camps while their sons were fighting the Nazis and Fascists in Europe. If/When a publication uses the headline "The Black Guy Problem", they are rightly ostracized and shamed out of public existence. I don't understand why stereotypical blanket statements about an entire ethnic group is ok, so long as it's not a minority. Would "The Hispanic Problem" be an ok headline in California? "Asian Men Must Be Stopped" would be ok in Hawaii?

Black people in America today are not "shot like rabbits" and I have never in my life seen a FICO score indicating a person's skin color. The reason people mention black-on-black crime is because if you're going to make the argument that black people are "shot like rabbits", then you have to at some point reconcile with the fact that the vast majority of black homicides are committed by other blacks. This isn't due to widespread modern-day oppression. It is a result, in part, of historic oppression.

Do black Americans, on average, make less than white or Asian Americans? Yes. And with income disparities come all sorts of other nasty statistics, especially related to crime and police interactions. Where do these income disparities stem from? Historic injustice, incredibly "stupid" drug laws, a breakdown of black families and the fact that a large percentage of black Americans (especially in the Midwest) live in urban areas with failing economies and lack of investment.

If you're going to shout systemic or institutional racism, then show me which system/institution is racist and I'll gladly protest against them. Is it Wells Fargo? The Justice Dept.? The Ohio Dept. of Corrections? Stanford University? Milwaukee PD?

As for browns - Indian Americans have the highest average income in America, coupled with some of the lowest incarceration rates, highest standard of living and highest education levels. Followed, inconveniently by Taiwanese and Filipino Americans. I still struggle to understand how this is possible in a country that is allegedly run on white supremacy.

Whenever you take this racism issue between black and whites in the USA to another level you deflect away from the simple fact

that racism exists and try to explain it away by talking about Greek, Italian and Irish immigrants. You know very well what the issue is.

I never denied the discrimination against the immigrants or the discrimination that still exists today against white immigrants and non white

immigrants.

I will not engage in your deflection any further but bring you back to the core point. The civil rights era was not about whites being

oppressed. White people in the USA oppressed blacks and not the other way around. The stench of it remains. Core point.

[OriZ 3,157]

Whenever you take this racism issue between black and whites in the USA to another level you deflect away from the simple fact

that racism exists and try to explain it away by talking about Greek, Italian and Irish immigrants. You know very well what the issue is.

I never denied the discrimination against the immigrants or the discrimination that still exists today against white immigrants and non white

immigrants.

I will not engage in your deflection any further but bring you back to the core point. The civil rights era was not about whites being

oppressed. White people in the USA oppressed blacks and not the other way around. The stench of it remains. Core point.

The stench might remain, but saying there is "systemic oppression" today, or that they are shot like rabbits, is quite a bit of s stretch IMO.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

The stench might remain, but saying there is "systemic oppression" today, or that they are shot like rabbits, is quite a bit of s stretch IMO.

It's not a stretch it's radical lunacy

[Boiler 45,486]

Politics is a circle, go right go left and they meet up.

Hence BLM and KKK have much more in common with each other than the middle.

As has been shown time after time after time.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Race quotas.

Every time a [fill in color] woman is promoted over a white male because she's a [fill in color] woman, that's discrimination.

Every time a white person (or Asian for that matter) is rejected at a university because the university wants more [fill in color] students, that's discrimination.

Discrimination is discrimination whether it's supposedly for a good cause or not.

Whether John Smith was white or black or brown is completely irrelevant to my life. So why should it affect me that John Smith was promoted, but now Company X wants someone of a different skin tone, so I can no longer be promoted?

In essence. The very notion that organizations or institutions are promoted to differentiate people based exclusively on their skin color is, by definition, systemic discrimination.

I can't think of any other openly enforced system on the books today that actually differentiates people based exclusively on skin color. Not one.

When you stop following the far right/social justice left mantra of people as somehow belonging to specific color-based groups rather than being individuals, the entire idea of racism becomes a little obsolete. I believe that's what MLK fought for, no?

If the horrible injustice, lynching and murdering of black people would not have happened, if the discrimination for housing and loans and jobs

would not exist we would not have so called race quotas.

This was created because white people acted like wild animals hunting down blacks in the 60 ties. That is the reason it exists.

Every action has a reaction. Every cause an effect.

What we had was crazy white folks and the KKK running in all sectors. Had courageous black heroes not spoken out we would still

have such a shameful America today.

Thanks to their hope and courage it got better. It is not finished. Though BLM is not as well focused and organized as it should be,

you better believe there will be heroes standing up and lead with dignity to keep on squashing discrimination like a bug.

I applaud every POC that is chosen over a less qualified white person is my answer to your "she got hired just because she is black"

excuse.

We are all in agreement that merit must come over color but it is being taken too far by assuming every POC hired was due to race quotas.

Nonsense, there are plenty of qualified POC if given the chance.

It is the platform of being given that chance for education and job training and job opportunity, that spring board that POC simply did not have

available to them just a few decades ago the same way that whites were given the opportunities.

Let's not forget what it was that brought us to this race quota issue of today and let's not dismiss it as discriminating to whites.

Company after company has been brought to light about their hiring discrimination against blacks. Something had to be done.

Cause and effect. Deal with it. Consequences of not so happy times. Suck it up. Improve race relations and it will go away,

fester racism and it will stay.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

The stench might remain, but saying there is "systemic oppression" today, or that they are shot like rabbits, is quite a bit of s stretch IMO.

Since no one can seem to grasp that my "shot like rabbits" was a clear exaggeration this is my disclaimer.

Not like rabbits but shot unarmed nevertheless. Geez Louise it's like flies on a ####### here.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Can't find the post right now but I believe Jay Jay mentioned FICO score. Ha ! You do not know what it means for a black couple with a good score

wanting the picket fence dream in a certain neighborhood TODAY do you ?
Take a seat unless you do know all about the black community getting loans from a bank.

I have one word for you : Systemic. Still.

As for any further quotes of my posts, I work for a living and have no time to be on this forum all day and night so it may take me a while to get back

and as to the incorrect video stats that was posted, I won't comment on such wrong stats at all because 99% of stats quoted in memes and videos

by certain people in this forum are laughable. Anyone with an understanding can go to a reliable FBI stats source to find the truth if they so desire.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

If the horrible injustice, lynching and murdering of black people would not have happened, if the discrimination for housing and loans and jobs

would not exist we would not have so called race quotas.

This was created because white people acted like wild animals hunting down blacks in the 60 ties. That is the reason it exists.

Every action has a reaction. Every cause an effect.

What we had was crazy white folks and the KKK running in all sectors. Had courageous black heroes not spoken out we would still

have such a shameful America today.

Thanks to their hope and courage it got better. It is not finished. Though BLM is not as well focused and organized as it should be,

you better believe there will be heroes standing up and lead with dignity to keep on squashing discrimination like a bug.

I applaud every POC that is chosen over a less qualified white person is my answer to your "she got hired just because she is black"

excuse.

We are all in agreement that merit must come over color but it is being taken too far by assuming every POC hired was due to race quotas.

Nonsense, there are plenty of qualified POC if given the chance.

It is the platform of being given that chance for education and job training and job opportunity, that spring board that POC simply did not have

available to them just a few decades ago the same way that whites were given the opportunities.

Let's not forget what it was that brought us to this race quota issue of today and let's not dismiss it as discriminating to whites.

Company after company has been brought to light about their hiring discrimination against blacks. Something had to be done.

Cause and effect. Deal with it. Consequences of not so happy times. Suck it up. Improve race relations and it will go away,

fester racism and it will stay.

Did ya notice everything you said used past tense verbs . Just saying Edited September 14, 2016 by Nature Boy Flair

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Did ya notice everything you said used past tense verbs . Just saying

Did you notice that that is my point ? Yesterday having an effect on today ? Or did that go right over your head ?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

First of all, I think it helps to put into perspective that in 2015, 102 unarmed black people were killed by police. That's 0.0002% of the black population of America, meaning 99.9998% of black Americans were not unarmed black people killed by police. We can then discuss back and forth how many of them were violent or charging at police and how many were truly murdered for no reason whatsoever. The point is, at least some of them were killed as result of unjustifiable police brutality. I just find the popular narrative quite.. Sensationalist in nature. Either way, it is an important issue, and it is one that should be discussed in the open.

I think the BLM protests were effective at first in that they garnered national attention around a topic that, let's face it, wasn't discussed as much as it should have been. That's what protests are ultimately good for - Create national attention. When attention is on your topic of interest, the ball is sort of in your court. This is where I wish BLM had turned into more of a non-partisan, well-organized movement than the messy partisan protest organization it is today. I say "messy" because BLM has allowed nearly anything to fly under their banner, be it shutting down the 405 freeway in LA, or marching the streets of Brooklyn shouting "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!" I think most people know that BLM is not advocating for dead cops. But just like "Republicans hate gays" became the brand they created for themselves by failing to rein in their crazies, BLM has become synonymous with rioting, looting, polarizing slogans and disruptive in-your-face activism to something like 50% of American voters.

What's worse I think, is that a climate has developed where questioning BLM's tactics (note, not message) is now construed as racist by scores of well-meaning idiots.

In a polarized political climate, the opposing side is going to take anything they can to paint you in a certain light. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. At this point, there is nothing what so ever the GOP can really say to make the LGBT community forget about Kim Davis and Mike Huckabee. Likewise, there is virtually nothing BLM can do to make conservatives forget about "What do we want? Dead cops!" and thus the short step from there to Dallas.

So when BLM had national attention following Ferguson, and the ball was in their court, I wish there had been more focus on cooperation with law enforcement, with a leadership that publicly came down hard on fringe activists - Attempting to come to some mutual understanding rather than accusations back and forth. I think BLM has some very legitimate concerns, and likewise I think various PDs have some very legitimate concerns. In the end, the vast majority of police officers are husbands, fathers, sons and daughters who are going home to their families after work, and so are the people in the communities they police. When your work place is the south side of Chicago or inner city Baltimore at 2am, I think the burden of proof to convict you, frankly, should be high. The last thing you want is for police officers to avoid those areas, which is now happening in Chicago. Likewise, there are few things worse than an innocent person being murdered by the very people whose sworn duty it is to protect them.

Right now, it seems like every time a cop pulls a trigger, hordes of protesters come out shouting questionable slogans at a situation they really know nothing about.

Likewise, on the right, scores of people are ready to make generalized statements about a dead person whose life they nothing nothing about.

That's not effective protest from either side. That's polarization in a nut shell.

As much as I cringe at virtually everything social justicy, I have no problem conceding that there are circumstances in which white people in this country have privilege. I used to joke with my black roommate back in the day that I should drive when we went to Jack in the Box at 1am, in case we got pulled over. There was obviously some truth behind this, sadly, as I've experienced and witnessed first hand. Am I weary of calling it white-specific privilege? Yes. Because 1. it is incredibly polarizing - Singling out people based on race is rarely ever a winning strategy (unless it's harmless humor), and 2. cops were usually even easier on my Asian college roommate than they ever were on me.

It's framed that way because of the actions of the police. If you think about it. that number is what WE know about. We've seen the reports about cops planting evidence, lying to protect each other, and falsifying documents to lock black men up. The investigations that show PDs in black neighborhoods are full of racism and corruption. And it's like I said here, you have a site full of folks who think everyone is out to get them, even where there's no evidence of this. But the two members who are saying here look at this, they are ACTUALLY trying to get us, we have the receipts to prove it, we're the ones who are nuts. But that's what happens when you live in a country that has criminalized an entire race of people for centuries. When cops become bold enough to say let's go and kill some black people and be confident that they won't be prosecuted for it, that should make any normal human being pause. That's the bridge incident. They went hunting for black people, like rabbits.

BLM has some work to do. The negative elements need to go away, but protest isn't pretty. And folks are mad. I know I was screaming F the police after I almost lost my life to the cops. And every time I was stopped, every time my profession was questioned, every time I had to take the long way home since driving through certain parts guaranteed a traffic stop, that didn't help. The dialogue on both sides needs to be addressed. And as long as black men and women are being brutalized and shot on film, it's not going to get better.

Which just goes to show they go based on their experiences, and not just home bred hate. If they are used to black drivers being more difficult to deal with than white drivers, and white drivers being more difficult to deal with than Asian drivers, of course they will approach each appropriately, not because they are racist but because they have a job to do and they need to get back home alive as well.

Where do you get this stuff? Black drivers have to go out of our way to be courteous because asking routine questions can get you tased in front of your kids.

Maybe if you want to save as many young black lives as possible you could get you BLM buddies and head here . Most bang for the buck

http://apps.chicagotribune.com/news/local/young_victims/

Young victims of violence in Chicago

By Alex Bordens and Abraham Epton

CHICAGO TRIBUNE (2016)

UPDATED AUTOMATICALLY WITH DATA COLLECTED BY

THE TRIBUNE BREAKING NEWS DESK

Chicago's violence doesn't have an age limit. Since September 2011, at least 117 people under 17 have been killed in shootings and at least 1,236 people in that age group have been shot. The Tribune will be updating this page as often as we receive reports of children under 17 shot or killed in Chicago.

The dots below reflect the stories of young lives ended too soon. Hover over them to see their names, and click on them to read our coverage. The map at the bottom has the names of the victims, when available, and the locations of the shootings.

About 9.45 percent of shootings and 0.89 percent of homicides in the Tribune's database do not include an age, so the actual number of incidents could be slightly higher than what is represented here.

Good idea, why don't you come up with a POA and I'll pass it along. Since you think an organization that formed 4 years ago can take on something that's been happening for about 60 years. I'll wait for your outline.