New K1 subforums?

[no name 1]

I guess maybe if I hadn't posted this topic, it wouldn't have come up. I'm starting to feel bad for having done it.

Oh sugar, don't feel bad. At least it's a civilized discussion!!

I think you, Tracy, are just trying to find a solution to prevent someone from going through the 'torment' you experienced. It's not a bad idea.

I like Yodrak's idea of a 'filter'. I think we need more moderation - but I don't think we will get it. I'm not in favor of further subdivision of the forums, but only because I think that creates more 'segregation'.

Andy's right. We are all a part of this messed up system. We should be equally happy and equally outraged for each other.

I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread - intellectual discussion, not too many exclamation marks.

I will ask again, where has the moderation gone? It seems non-existent these days?

According to many, I'm rude so I would never get the job. I am not rude, but I am not all about rainbows either. You could def. say my patience is lacking on VJ for the whenwhenwhen or whereismyNOA2? posts. I stand by newbioes not being allowed to post for a week after joining.

Edited March 27, 2007 by devilette

[ChasUK 0]

..............Frankly I'd love to see these boards moderated - HEAVILY. I think that's the ONLY way we are going to have any cohesion or useful purpose. Experienced hands need to be on board to stop hysteria - whether it be timeline hysteria, 'new process' hysteria, or 'new law' hysteria.

My two cents.

YES. Exactly!!!

[ChasUK 0]

Gosh, I don't get mad at the people. I get mad about the things being said that are ####### - especially if it causes other folks to worry or have undue stress! From my point of view, I don't care WHICH forum that happens in- it annoys me.

But then I've been around this whole place so friggin' long that I've got an opinion on everything..........

Nooooo, I don't believe that for a second!!!

LOL

[LaL 418]

I had a major issue on the day i found and joined VJ. I wouldn't have given VJ a seconds look if I had to wait a week prior to posting. Nothing in the guides would have been able to help me with a refusal at the interview.

[ChasUK 0]

I do too. And that is basically why I suggested this to begin with - to somehow try and minimize the timeline driven 'envy' that seems to be happening. I guess maybe if I hadn't posted this topic, it wouldn't have come up. I'm starting to feel bad for having done it.

It amazes me how over analysed this thread has become.

Surely the whole point of this is simple.

Is there a way that CSC filers can still come and post on VJ, in the relevant forums, without having the rapid success stories of VSC filers, (and their whoaful "it's been 2 weeks and I'm still waiting" threads), so much in your face that it actually pains to come here at all?

How tough is that really to solve??? (That is a rhetorical question)

[Andy 2]

I had a major issue on the day i found and joined VJ. I wouldn't have given VJ a seconds look if I had to wait a week prior to posting. Nothing in the guides would have been able to help me with a refusal at the interview.

I think in reality that's true of many people. It's also true that many who come here needing help don't know enough to actually know what to read or what it means when they've read it. It strikes me that the idea of forcing people to wait any period before posting the first time is a simple recipe for having them go elsewhere, and have VJ tail off into the future with decreasing membership.

With the best will in the world we cannot legislate for human nature. What we have to do is look at way to effectively remediate the behaviors that come out of it - which is why this thread is a good one, because we can see what these issues are and what effect they have, and we're discussing what we can do to improve things.

The sad fact is though that at the very least, much of the solution does in fact depend on more active and effective moderation, because without that for every step forward in structural organization, we'll take two steps back in posting content!

ON EDIT: Yes, it's tough to solve when the people suffering the problem have no control over the outcome!

Edited March 27, 2007 by Andy

[Jenn! 918]

So what's the holdup with getting more moderators then? Why have we never seen that come about? I know there was talk at one point but it was rejected in favor of having the "thread movers".

[ChasUK 0]

The sad fact is though that at the very least, much of the solution does in fact depend on more active and effective moderation, because without that for every step forward in structural organization, we'll take two steps back in posting content!

It always comes back to this very point.

Geez, I mean every other board I've posted on has a gammet of mods. Why is there such a lack here?

[TracyTN 237]

Good question, Jenn. I don't know who makes such decisions here.

[LaL 418]

what would the moderators do in this case exactly? prod to tone down high fives? or provide sympathy for those waiting?

i had kinda thought we ran the gamut in this thread and came back to - be angry at the system, take a break when necessary, but its really just something you have to deal with (and every step of the way)

[Jenn! 918]

what would the moderators do in this case exactly? prod to tone down high fives? or provide sympathy for those waiting?

i had kinda thought we ran the gamut in this thread and came back to - be angry at the system, take a break when necessary, but its really just something you have to deal with (and every step of the way)

Mods can do things like mandate a single congratulatory thread (maybe one a week or something) and lock any other congratulatory threads that pop up after that, directing the poster to the existing thread. Just an example, but more moderation will help with LOADS of things that will help to clean up the board.

[Andy 2]

The sad fact is though that at the very least, much of the solution does in fact depend on more active and effective moderation, because without that for every step forward in structural organization, we'll take two steps back in posting content!

It always comes back to this very point.

Geez, I mean every other board I've posted on has a gammet of mods. Why is there such a lack here?

Well, there are good reasons it ended up this way. When Steve gave up this site, the member-based moderating team lost their control too. It happened because it was necessary to protect VJ from attack from a lawyer who's apparent intent was to close it down, and as long as the site was run and moderated by members, it was at risk of being forced out of business if any of the 'management' contributed anything that was problematic (in the legal sense). Claims of Unlicensed Practice of Law and all that, which could be directed at the site as a result of member moderation, rather than any any individual. Part of the notion of passing control to the current site admin, Captain Ewok, was that if moderating was done purely on behavioral issues not the actual content of answers/replies/explanations the site would not be vulnerable.

In a purely legal and simplistic sense it did make sense at the time, though the reality was not so much that VJ or the then moderators were at risk as that the lawyer was ... well in my humble option, barking up the wrong tree. Anyway, complicated and not really of much interest in the detail I suspect.

In the first instance after Captain Ewok took over there were a few others listed in the moderating team, but there was not much content-driven control, and now I see the 'team' is just the Captain. Discussion regarding increasing the moderating team have happened, largely due to similar concerns as being expressed here, but nothing seems to have come out of it. Ultimately, Captain Ewok, as the Site Admin is the only arbiter of choice.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Andy

[ChasUK 0]

what would the moderators do in this case exactly? prod to tone down high fives? or provide sympathy for those waiting?

i had kinda thought we ran the gamut in this thread and came back to - be angry at the system, take a break when necessary, but its really just something you have to deal with (and every step of the way)

As suggested by someone else, a separate "Yippee I got it/Why do I wait so long" forum would suffice. Anyone posting such threads in the general K1, K3 forums would have those threads moved, merged or otherwise. It's really not that hard and would leave serious problem solving threads and discussions behind. It would make life more bearable for posters to go into, for example the K1 forum without having all the jumping about and/or the comparisons of timelines.

Anyone who has waited as Tracy and I did will tell you, it's easier to stay away from VJ altogether than to go through the pain of seeing those threads, even their titles in the list, (before someone clever tells me to simply NOT click on those threads).

[Andy 2]

I don't think that would be an entirely safe conclusion, but in a real sense the whole issue of unlicensed practice of law was never the absolute threat that it was made out to be. The reality was that even if a complaint was filed with the appropriate state bar association(s) it would be hard to prove the point given the nature of internet discussion groups and the sheer impracticality of it. However, it was enough at the time to cause major upheaval here, which even in the absence of an actual complaint, effectively brought VJ to a standstill. Since something had to be done it made sense to hand the site over to the captain - though I regret that it meant that members ceased to have any real control of the site. That was one of the features that had made VJ strong.

[Andy 2]

I think there's a rather pleasing irony in the face of comments regarding the need for improved and increased moderation, that not only has the post I replied to in the above since gone, but also the quote of it in my own!

Edited March 27, 2007 by Andy