New K1 subforums?

[JODO 2]

This is a great thread. While reading I realized that I am guilty of several offenses mentioned. Too, it never even occurred to me that people were giving lots of cograts to build up their status, as I still don't even know what the boxes under the name mean. It says I am a senior member, but what does that mean? I certainly don't feel comfortable at this point just rattling off advice to new posters simply because I have senior member by my name. I guess I just feel comfortable maybe giving congrats or referring people to guides because I am terrified of giving someone the wrong advice,but I do want to contribute and help others. Honestly though, the information for just about anything related to immigration is here if you just read the guides. I think the new search feature helps a great deal. I unfortunately didn't find VJ, until after I'd filed by myself and received my NOA1. So, with that said, even just going by USCIS's website one can get the ball rolling as I did.

[Andy 2]

There was a time when VJ had no FAQ or guides and it functioned perfectly well like that. Questions were asked and answered as with any other forum, and if the same question got asked a lot, links to the threads where it had happened were given, so readers could see the context and content from before. Links were often posted to sites such as the INS themselves, or visalaw.com (excellent resource for well-written, easy-read LEGAL explanations from a practicing and very well respected immigration lawyer) and shusterman.com, plus the K-1 FAQ in it's original location, and even to other forums if necessary.

When the K-1 FAQ was offered to us because the original owner of it had decided to step down, it was natural for us to take it on, but there was no small amount of discussion at the time about how it would change the nature and emphasis of the site and lead to references to it rather than answer being given to people who post common questions.

On the face of it, there's nothing wrong with that - the FAQ is a great resource and in a technical sense answers almost every possible question in the K-1 process from beginning to end. BUT it doesn't do that well in providing a context and explanation for the answers it gives, and readers therefore may readily come away from reading with a sense of unease at that lack, or unsure if their question was actually answered at all.... and that's assuming they know enough to know what question to use it to address, and what answer fits their situation.

It was that reason that when the FAQ came here, it was often referred to in answers, but rarely were users simply told to go and read it. It was my view then (and remains so) and the view of a number of the other regulars, that the best way to build the confidence of users to get through the system was to EXPLAIN answers, not just give them. Doing so helps people understand WHY, not just HOW - and as we all tend to discover before the end of our visa journeys are reached, knowing the why is often far more crucial than knowing the dry facts of the process and the 'flowchart' of progress. That's why I, personally, never ever gave a simple link to the FAQ in a reply, but always addressed the specifics, or asked the poster questions to discover their specific situation. It's hard to keep that up, though I had a library of common answers that got used and reused, with tailoring to the details given, and for 2 or 3 years I was the most prolific poster here.

I'm also of the view that if we want people to read the materials before they ask, we have to accept the fact they never have and generally never will, but that we need to provide them in a form that makes their existence and value an inescapable fact to those who join or or about to post a question.

I also want to address the concern that these resources present any danger in the UPL sense, because in the broadest sense they do not. It's not the factual informational content that is the risk of us overstepping the legal boundary (in as far as that risk exists), but the content WE post, which often strays from the factual in terms of personal experience or simple information, to interpretation, procedural advice, judgement etc. THAT is where there is a danger, not just because it may touch on the legal interpretation and implementation of law, but because it's often the case that 'advice' is given (interesting enough, often by relatively new members with no real experience) that frequently doesn't take into account intricate details of the situation and thus endangers the questioner if they were to mistakenly follow through on it. It is beholden on us to ensure that if and when we step beyond the purely informational, our replies are sufficiently detailed and explained that readers understand the context and reasoning, thus know whether that content applies to them and why. Also, as a side note, if I'm not mistaken, much of the guides we see here were written with the cooperation of an immigration lawyer - not so much in content as in reviewing them for problematic content. He was responsible for having a series of the original guides removed due to his concerns.

Just my point of view, as the thread tails off to a successful conclusion!

ON EDIT: I'm sorry I missed the chatroom session, but it just goes to show what can be achieved without me!

Edited March 31, 2007 by Andy

[PlatyPius 5]

Regarding the Guides...

While I think they are somewhat helpful, I agree that they should be a secondary resource and not linked to all the time as if they are sacred scrolls passed down through the ages.

There are things that aren't/can't be covered by a guide.

Immigrating with pets, for example. Too many different rules for different countries and species.

Immigrating with Children: Not really covered at all, that I saw. Again, too many different countries and laws to cover in a guide.

These are things that people need to ask others about....get their personal experiences.

Even the USCIS website doesn't cover half of the questions people will have (which is why sites like this exist), so there's no way a guide could cover everything either.

Honestly, I think the example forms and immigrations timelines are a much more useful resource than the guides are. (Just my opinion.)

Posts just giving a link to a guide are annoying. Very annoying.

[lisaf 0]

Posts just giving a link to a guide are annoying. Very annoying.

Especially with the condescending, rude remark that sometimes accompanies it. I can understand that in some instances the reply is complex and it would be easier to post a link to the guides than explain. But I often wonder why it is that some people can take the time to write a snippy remark and post a link when they could just have easily answered a simple question.

After reading this thread over a few days I think its fair to say that people will interpret the " tone" of VJ depending on their own mood and place in the immigration system. When i was waiting the KI process out, all the frivolous posts annoyed the hell out of me! but I knew that was MY problem. My point being that you can moderate all you want, but as everybody's needs and priorities are constantly shifting, so will the ideas of what needs moderating. And around and around it will go.

Im a non USC who can't work, so enjoy the distraction of reading all the nonsense all day that used to irritate me. I also depend on the great info I get from here and like to keep up with those around my filing dates. What astounds me is the amount of USC's, who's loved ones are with them, are holding down a marriage and a career, and are treating this resource like its their job from hell. I have this image of people turning up with their coffee, turning on the computer and sighing with a " look at the chit I have to deal with today" attitude. Honestly, take a break, or don't post.

With regard to newbies and guides, how about every new member gets a welcome to VJ automated letter with a guide list applicable to their visa type??? or the top 20 most asked questions for their visa type?

[Niels Bohr 72]

What the hell is this? I can just create another account if you think I'm in it for the stats. I am the only one who's giving out a high number of congratulations. It's a high praise for successful people. What the hell is wrong with you people accusing me of getting stats? You think I get money for this? You think I'm wasting my time for stats? Get real, this site gives me no pleasure. I'm sure when someones congratulate you, you don't get happy.

If Captain Kwok will reset my post counts, it'll be fine.

Edited April 1, 2007 by consolemaster

[TracyTN 237]

What the hell is this? I can just create another account if you think I'm in it for the stats. I am the only one who's giving out a high number of congratulations. It's a high praise for successful people. What the hell is wrong with you people accusing me of getting stats? You think I get money for this? You think I'm wasting my time for stats? Get real, this site gives me no pleasure. I'm sure when someones congratulate you, you don't get happy.

If Captain Kwok will reset my post counts, it'll be fine.

Where in this thread (recently) has anyone talked about your 'issue'? Aside from that, Ewok asked us to stop talking about it here, so could you do us the same courtesy?

Thanks!

[Niels Bohr 72]

TracyTN,

Look at post prior to mines, please. I already know. Address that issue with the person who is posting off-topic. Do you think I don't get it. Geezes.

Edited April 1, 2007 by consolemaster

[TracyTN 237]

TracyTN,

Look at post prior to mines, please. I already know. Address that issue with the person who is posting off-topic. Do you think I don't get it. Geezes.

Geezes (??) indeed.

The post prior to yours, lisaf's, doesn't even mention congratulations posts. Its talking about people who post links to the guides.

How that relates to you, I truly fail to understand.

[Niels Bohr 72]

TracyTN,

Look at GODO! Now, this is not a kid's game we're playing.

[Andy 2]

What the hell is this? I can just create another account if you think I'm in it for the stats. I am the only one who's giving out a high number of congratulations. It's a high praise for successful people. What the hell is wrong with you people accusing me of getting stats? You think I get money for this? You think I'm wasting my time for stats? Get real, this site gives me no pleasure. I'm sure when someones congratulate you, you don't get happy.

If Captain Kwok will reset my post counts, it'll be fine.

What the hell is WHAT exactly? You might consider how unusual it is for a member who has less than 2 months on the site to have achieved Platinum status, and realize that it's sufficiently unusual for that in itself to cause remarks and comment, even if you hadn't responded to the comments of others in the way it appears.

I've always been of the view that part of our function here is to provide a place for people to cheer on their own successes and those of others, and personally I don't have cause to criticize for participating in that, but at the same time, if you thought it best in the circumstances to have your post count reset to prove that you're not here for just boosting the number, you don't need Captain Ewok - you can create a new account and start using that. Post count zero, and you prove you're not bothered about the numbers, and can keep on posting congratulatory messages until yopur count goes up high again, then create another new account and start again.

[TracyTN 237]

TracyTN,

Look at GODO! Now, this is not a kid's game we're playing.

You're right - he's talking about himself, which is actually his 'code language' for talking about consolemaster. Thanks for clarifying.

(JODO, GODO - same difference.

[JODO 2]

hmmm Consolemaster, I was talking about MYSELF giving a high number of congratulations and NOWHERE in my post did I mention you. Too, if I recall from reading through other posts on this thread, some people mentioned your name SPECIFICALLY and that I never did because I was not talking about YOU and yet you wish to have an issue with what I wrote?

Jesus take the wheel(again)!

[Nagishkaw 510]

What the hell is this? I can just create another account if you think I'm in it for the stats. I am the only one who's giving out a high number of congratulations. It's a high praise for successful people. What the hell is wrong with you people accusing me of getting stats? You think I get money for this? You think I'm wasting my time for stats? Get real, this site gives me no pleasure. I'm sure when someones congratulate you, you don't get happy.

If Captain Kwok will reset my post counts, it'll be fine.

What the hell is WHAT exactly? You might consider how unusual it is for a member who has less than 2 months on the site to have achieved Platinum status, and realize that it's sufficiently unusual for that in itself to cause remarks and comment, even if you hadn't responded to the comments of others in the way it appears.

I've always been of the view that part of our function here is to provide a place for people to cheer on their own successes and those of others, and personally I don't have cause to criticize for participating in that, but at the same time, if you thought it best in the circumstances to have your post count reset to prove that you're not here for just boosting the number, you don't need Captain Ewok - you can create a new account and start using that. Post count zero, and you prove you're not bothered about the numbers, and can keep on posting congratulatory messages until yopur count goes up high again, then create another new account and start again.

I think that's called post count bulimia.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Console Master, everyone-

Lets let that topic go. It really does not matter does it? Who cares about post boxes in your profile, etc. It is just a number that says how much a person posted. I did email console master and just alerted them that sometimes their posts looked suspicious and if there was even a possibility that they were excessive and for post numbers only then to tone it down. They agreed and also let me know that they are a genuinely congratulatory person and I thoguht about it, and realized that it could be true however if people really were upset I would be getting reported from the OP's of the threads as well. Since then consolemaster has reduced the number they make and I think most people here have just gottenlost in this 28 pages of posts and only gotten parts of this message. Regardless of why, I think this isuee is just overblown to a small degree .

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

As an update for everyone I have defined the new roles for a small group of members. I am preparing some guidelines on when to use certain features, etc.. Anyhow give me a few days more but things are moving along . Please do not reply to this topic regarding this as it is a bit off topic in general. If you have any questions please PM me however regarding the group of people I have already picked names and will be PM'ing them in the next 3-4 days. I could not pick everyone (sorry) as I did not want more than a handful of people.