New K1 subforums?

[TracyTN 237]

Without a reasonable explanation as to why this is happening, I can't but help feel rather insulted - that the time and effort taken to raise genuine issues of concern by myself and a number of others who care about the site and how well it works mean nothing at all and aren't taken seriously or with any respect.

[Jenn! 918]

Without a reasonable explanation as to why this is happening, I can't but help feel rather insulted - that the time and effort taken to raise genuine issues of concern by myself and a number of others who care about the site and how well it works mean nothing at all and aren't taken seriously or with any respect.

Not to mention that a lack of reasonable explanation only leads to speculation - people tend to think the worst when it appears that something is being swept under the rug. I can't help but think that the reason members can't be moderators is that they will find out what has been going on around here.

The effort to clean up the FAQs now is all smoke and mirrors IMO.

I'm with you on the feeling insulted part, for sure.

[Andy 2]

I can't help but think that the reason members can't be moderators is that they will find out what has been going on around here.

Indications would be that there are influences controlling decisions here, but that isn't to say there is anything underhand to be discovered. I suspect the reason no explanation is forthcoming is because in itself, explaining it would cause the same problems that allowing members to control the site would also cause. And while that may sound rather vague and obtuse, if I'm right, then I think I might know what the influences are.

There's a way to test my theory, but I'll hold off on that for a bit!

[meauxna 15]

I saw you get bashed in another thread earlier for your post count and way it was achieved, and the sad fact is that even if the poster was right in that criticism, it's still a sad reminder of how things have gone a little wrong here. Your 'congratulations' posts are every bit as much a part of the community here as my 'how immigration law works' posts (obliquely referring to that thread!) and they should be treated as such. To me, a 'post #######' is someone who posts fast and furious to build up the count just to seem important, and worse, who then uses that apparent status to try and assert views that supplant the wisdom of those who really do know. Post whores are the only ones who really know who they are, and while I used the term generically, it's inappropriate in my view for it to be used as a term to be bandied between users. That's something that while not perhaps a violation of the TOS, I would like to see stamped out.

Unfortunately I had terrible connection problems yesterday. I tried to speak to this several times and just couldn't. So even though the thread has moved on, I still want to comment.

Mainly to say, you can't have it both ways!

I agree in general that 'nasty' comments should be kept to a minimum. That was a chief beef against 'the other group' when people migrated here. I see it more as a style thing, but different styles for different types, that is OK.

WRT the congratsmaster, I sent a friendly, gentle PM early on suggesting the posts were a bit OTT. I got a reply that essentially said 'Whatever. I'm going to keep doing my thing.' OK. Others started posting in threads, still gently, expressing 'enough is enough'. Same sort of reply. Then someone gets more pointed, and they are "bashing"? At what point do we put one person's feelings above the culture of the group?

Sheesh, if I went to someone's beer tasting club (open to the public) and was told it was not good form to go around and toast all 58 members before each sip, I'd probably catch a clue.

So back to 'both ways'.

We're not going to have moderators to encourage/enforce a single, cultural message here.

We're supposedly 'grownups' who do not need moderators anyway, and we can all just do our thing. We all have good judgement, right?

So called self-moderation isn't allowed either, because that's bashing, and we should just let people do what they want, as long as their intentions are good (hoo boy, I can see some interesting fallout from that--oh wait, I DO see it, every day here!).

I'm left stumped.

So it is nasty to refer people to the Guides/FAQ. If/when you do, you might get shouted down because there are mistakes there. So it's back to another round of writing, only to get picked apart if something is forgotten or changed, and yet, WHO is bothering to invest the time in searching the information, looking up links, writing the Guide and getting it posted? Precious few, that's who.

I am now more confused about the purpose of this site. If it is for support, rainbows, cheerleading & kittens, that's fine. JUST SAY SO. If it is going to be providing serious immigration support, TELL PEOPLE HOW TO BEHAVE. If it is to have a comprehensive How To (ie, direction the FAQ suggestions are going), I can see why most sites that provide that service charge for it. Why? Because it is a lot of work! The Guides (IMO) are meant to be GUIDES, not Mapquest. You're supposed to use them to put your case on the right path, not hold your hand all the way through it. If I offer you a link, I expect you to read it because the answer to your question is there from an official source, not just my hot air. That many folks feel even that is too much effort FOR THEIR OWN CASE baffles me.

If it is fun for some to sit here and read mindless speculation about what happens to your precious file of paperwork, rock on. That is driving ME nuts. Expecially when the factual information is out there! There have been several recent magical discoveries of information that several of us have been posting over and over. There just doesn't seem to be a way to reach people other than the forums.

Maybe someone can develop a bot to answer questions here.

[Andy 2]

Unfortunately I had terrible connection problems yesterday. I tried to speak to this several times and just couldn't. So even though the thread has moved on, I still want to comment.....

And your point, if directed at me rather than in general is.... what exactly?!

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

So basically the sticking point on this thread is why member moderators are not allowed. Granted if they are not, people would like to know why. I will attempt to provide a degree of insight however I need a few minutes to pound that out .

[no name 1]

Mainly to say, you can't have it both ways!

I agree in general that 'nasty' comments should be kept to a minimum. That was a chief beef against 'the other group' when people migrated here. I see it more as a style thing, but different styles for different types, that is OK.

WRT the congratsmaster, I sent a friendly, gentle PM early on suggesting the posts were a bit OTT. I got a reply that essentially said 'Whatever. I'm going to keep doing my thing.' OK. Others started posting in threads, still gently, expressing 'enough is enough'. Same sort of reply. Then someone gets more pointed, and they are "bashing"? At what point do we put one person's feelings above the culture of the group?

Sheesh, if I went to someone's beer tasting club (open to the public) and was told it was not good form to go around and toast all 58 members before each sip, I'd probably catch a clue.

So back to 'both ways'.

We're not going to have moderators to encourage/enforce a single, cultural message here.

We're supposedly 'grownups' who do not need moderators anyway, and we can all just do our thing. We all have good judgement, right?

So called self-moderation isn't allowed either, because that's bashing, and we should just let people do what they want, as long as their intentions are good (hoo boy, I can see some interesting fallout from that--oh wait, I DO see it, every day here!).

I'm left stumped.

So it is nasty to refer people to the Guides/FAQ. If/when you do, you might get shouted down because there are mistakes there. So it's back to another round of writing, only to get picked apart if something is forgotten or changed, and yet, WHO is bothering to invest the time in searching the information, looking up links, writing the Guide and getting it posted? Precious few, that's who.

I am now more confused about the purpose of this site. If it is for support, rainbows, cheerleading & kittens, that's fine. JUST SAY SO. If it is going to be providing serious immigration support, TELL PEOPLE HOW TO BEHAVE. If it is to have a comprehensive How To (ie, direction the FAQ suggestions are going), I can see why most sites that provide that service charge for it. Why? Because it is a lot of work! The Guides (IMO) are meant to be GUIDES, not Mapquest. You're supposed to use them to put your case on the right path, not hold your hand all the way through it. If I offer you a link, I expect you to read it because the answer to your question is there from an official source, not just my hot air. That many folks feel even that is too much effort FOR THEIR OWN CASE baffles me.

If it is fun for some to sit here and read mindless speculation about what happens to your precious file of paperwork, rock on. That is driving ME nuts. Expecially when the factual information is out there! There have been several recent magical discoveries of information that several of us have been posting over and over. There just doesn't seem to be a way to reach people other than the forums.

Maybe someone can develop a bot to answer questions here.

Meaux - beautifully written & it covered every point I had. Thank you!

Side note: So the drama with consolemaster happens - and he was supposedly scolded. Yet, HE CONTINUES TO POST CONGRATS. Not in pink letters, mind you, but still in all caps, in tons of threads. A newbie has that much of a lack of respect, and mods can't (or won't) control that? WHY?????

Edited March 30, 2007 by devilette

[TracyTN 237]

So basically the sticking point on this thread is why member moderators are not allowed. Granted if they are not, people would like to know why. I will attempt to provide a degree of insight however I need a few minutes to pound that out .

I, for one, am looking forward to your reply.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Side note: So the drama with consolemaster happens - and he was supposedly scolded. Yet, HE CONTINUES TO POST CONGRATS. Not in pink letters, mind you, but still in all caps, in tons of threads. A newbie has that much of a lack of respect, and mods can't (or won't) control that? WHY?????

Can you send me a link to where he is still doing this? I warned him that while it is certainly ok to do this when it is appropriate, blindly doing this for no reason would be considered spam.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

The first concern in moderation is if the person would be completely objective and fair. This is very difficult to do with members that are already here and have friends. The accusation of bias and favoritism is hard to get beyond unless moderators are very carefully chosen. This was an issue before with a few moderators and would be a potential issue again.

By becoming a moderator you may in some cases take on the liability of certain day to day activities on the site. That liability is something that not everyone is really prepared to take on even though up front it sounds great. Case in point, as being a moderator, while you are still considered a “member” of the site (see TOS definition) you certainly may be perceived (rightfully or not) to represent the websites interests (which again is not the case however other members may think this at first glance). This creates many issues on its own. Becoming a moderator hence then requires a limitation of free and absolute speech where by you must take care as to what you say as some people may mistakenly believe your view points represent the sites. The liability for both the moderator and the site is a tough line to balance.

Creating moderators and verifying their identity is important. As they have a greater amount of features enabled on their account there is a greater risk of at some point possible abuse of those powers that may harm the site. Having a moderator’s real identity and contact information helps to reduce any likelihood that abuse could occur and holds that person more responsible. Gathering this information would require each member to submit their personal details (on paper signed) which is likely not something everyone is comfortable with.

One last but important point; In the past member moderators of this site in a few occasions turned out to be members that had secondary motives for gaining moderator status that were not in the best interest of the site. This clearly is something that is not desirable to ever see happen again.

Personally I believe that I can give pseudo moderation status to everyone in a social networking style way that would/should benefit everyone. Clearly when a topic is bad there will be a group consensus of that fact. I have some tools I can deploy that would allow regular members to submit anonymously a ‘bury’ command on topics. If a large number of unrelated members also ‘bury’ the topic than it will get locked pending admin review (at which time it will remain locked or reopened). There would also be abuse checks to prevent groups of friends from ganging up on people. If that ever did happen though (group of friends ganging up) those members involved would be suspended for a period of time for abuse. I kind of think this balances the best of both worlds in preventing threads from going crazy (gives greater speed to locking down bad threads and retains admin oversight when it is reviewed).

Regarding the issue of getting a better sense of a greater community back, I think that it will never be like before simply because there are far more people with far broader personalities. It may be a good step to appoint a special group of members with specific abilities (not termed moderators) that could help promote a better sense of community. They would have to be respected members. They would certainly have an icon next to their name that states something that indicates their status. They would not again be a moderator or have the ability to ban people, etc, but honestly we get so few bans that it does not take more than myself to review people daily (or on the spot if I am online) if they have done something that requires being banned.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I should add that one of the justifications of needing member moderators is that the attitude on the site is not in line with the best interests of the sites goals. Having moderator status at best gives the impression that if members that are warned by the moderators do not "shape up" they may get suspended. This may be valid but I would think that more senior members would be able to also do the same thing with well phrased replies. In the extreme case that this does not work then admin/moderation would be needed.

[no name 1]

Side note: So the drama with consolemaster happens - and he was supposedly scolded. Yet, HE CONTINUES TO POST CONGRATS. Not in pink letters, mind you, but still in all caps, in tons of threads. A newbie has that much of a lack of respect, and mods can't (or won't) control that? WHY?????

Can you send me a link to where he is still doing this? I warned him that while it is certainly ok to do this when it is appropriate, blindly doing this for no reason would be considered spam.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61621&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61573&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61534&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61547&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61526&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61546&hl=

and this one where he admits he shouldn't be doing it BUT DOES IT ANYHOW:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61511&hl=

[Mags 112]

Captain Ewok ~ Actually, that makes sense to me. Thankyou for explaining it.

[Marilyn. 340]

a lot of people post congrats on this site.... not sure why consolemaster is getting picked on...

I do see him contributing other comments too...

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Side note: So the drama with consolemaster happens - and he was supposedly scolded. Yet, HE CONTINUES TO POST CONGRATS. Not in pink letters, mind you, but still in all caps, in tons of threads. A newbie has that much of a lack of respect, and mods can't (or won't) control that? WHY?????

Can you send me a link to where he is still doing this? I warned him that while it is certainly ok to do this when it is appropriate, blindly doing this for no reason would be considered spam.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61621&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61573&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61534&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61547&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61526&hl=

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61546&hl=

and this one where he admits he shouldn't be doing it BUT DOES IT ANYHOW:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=61511&hl=

I beleive those are from before I warned them... Anything from today?