New K1 subforums?

[Mags 112]

Hmmm...Can someobody do a reset post counts. I am not in it for post counts when I say congratulations. I view the timelines of those who successfully went through the process, and at the excitement of seeing how happy they are I leave them a message. Or, better yet. Just not show the post counts, and let me be at the average counts forever.

I said I'd shut up, but you raise a point related to something I said that deserves comment.

VJ was ALWAYS intended to be a place where people could, should and were encouraged to post when good things happened, and where others could, should and would post congratulatory messages. It was a critical part of the need of the community then, and personally I think it is now just the same. There's nothing wrong with posting either type of message, and we should all welcome every scrap of success our members enjoy.

But post count is misleading - can be very misleading to those who don't know how it came about. To a newbie, 1,000 'great news, well done' posts is just the same, or more likely indeed to have been, 1,000 'this is how you do it' contributions. Yet it can't be turned off because otherwise there are no indicators of 'trust' of any kind for posters to go off other than how long anyone has been here - and that's not a safe indicator either!

I saw you get bashed in another thread earlier for your post count and way it was achieved, and the sad fact is that even if the poster was right in that criticism, it's still a sad reminder of how things have gone a little wrong here. Your 'congratulations' posts are every bit as much a part of the community here as my 'how immigration law works' posts (obliquely referring to that thread!) and they should be treated as such. To me, a 'post #######' is someone who posts fast and furious to build up the count just to seem important, and worse, who then uses that apparent status to try and assert views that supplant the wisdom of those who really do know. Post whores are the only ones who really know who they are, and while I used the term generically, it's inappropriate in my view for it to be used as a term to be bandied between users. That's something that while not perhaps a violation of the TOS, I would like to see stamped out.

Good Grief... I saw that thread and some of the 'participants' who were laughing and high-5ing about a successful "scolding" are some of the same folks who are active in this thread...

I know the thread you are talking about and, in fact, I have mentioned the same issue here. It isn't a case of being two faced y'know.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

An example is the MENA forum where I specifically told them to let me know when things were bad. I made a serious point to emphasize the TOS and it was a benefit to everyone. I do not think anyone took it personally and in the end things were much better for the community.

I think it took!

Regarding the Guides and FAQ's, I am always ready to update them on the spot when people give feedback. I would be more than glad to kick off a round of house keeping and improve them in general. To do so there would need to be volunteers and the will for people to help. I think that promoting events such as this on the site may indeed help spawn the sense of community that we are discussing here. Thoughts?

I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

[no name 1]

Hmmm...Can someobody do a reset post counts. I am not in it for post counts when I say congratulations. I view the timelines of those who successfully went through the process, and at the excitement of seeing how happy they are I leave them a message. Or, better yet. Just not show the post counts, and let me be at the average counts forever.

I said I'd shut up, but you raise a point related to something I said that deserves comment.

VJ was ALWAYS intended to be a place where people could, should and were encouraged to post when good things happened, and where others could, should and would post congratulatory messages. It was a critical part of the need of the community then, and personally I think it is now just the same. There's nothing wrong with posting either type of message, and we should all welcome every scrap of success our members enjoy.

But post count is misleading - can be very misleading to those who don't know how it came about. To a newbie, 1,000 'great news, well done' posts is just the same, or more likely indeed to have been, 1,000 'this is how you do it' contributions. Yet it can't be turned off because otherwise there are no indicators of 'trust' of any kind for posters to go off other than how long anyone has been here - and that's not a safe indicator either!

I saw you get bashed in another thread earlier for your post count and way it was achieved, and the sad fact is that even if the poster was right in that criticism, it's still a sad reminder of how things have gone a little wrong here. Your 'congratulations' posts are every bit as much a part of the community here as my 'how immigration law works' posts (obliquely referring to that thread!) and they should be treated as such. To me, a 'post #######' is someone who posts fast and furious to build up the count just to seem important, and worse, who then uses that apparent status to try and assert views that supplant the wisdom of those who really do know. Post whores are the only ones who really know who they are, and while I used the term generically, it's inappropriate in my view for it to be used as a term to be bandied between users. That's something that while not perhaps a violation of the TOS, I would like to see stamped out.

Good Grief... I saw that thread and some of the 'participants' who were laughing and high-5ing about a successful "scolding" are some of the same folks who are active in this thread...

I know the thread you are talking about and, in fact, I have mentioned the same issue here. It isn't a case of being two faced y'know.

And there was no high 5-ing as you put it. It was a valid concern that was addressed, end of story. If you don't like anything we are trying to fix on VJ (as your posts in this thread show), you are free to go elsewhere.

[TracyTN 237]

I have nothing against anyone posting congratulatory messages. I do it myself...but I do tend to stick with people I have followed during their process or people I know. The main issue I have is the constant copying and pasting of the same message in what appears to be every single thread about NOA1, a touch, NOA2, interviews, another touch and so on. To post the same message over and over seems to me to actually be counter productive and actually quite irritating. It can also come across as lazy, just my opinion.

That, and I think it comes off a bit more sincerely if you can try and make each one a little 'unique'. Not EVERYone, mind, because its hard to do that of course - but every now and then, ya know?

I think its great to congratulate people, consolemaster. But I do hate to see a member limit his or her posts to SOLELY congratulations. Spread your wings a bit and find new ways to contribute. The site would probably be a LOT more fun for you that way

But that really isn't what the thread was about - so...onwards and upwards.

/off topic

[Otto 83]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but at the present time I think the biggest issues are with organization, not member behavior.

Me too..you're not in a minority...

If the goal is indeed to improve the site and create/nurture a true community that is worthy of future VJers, then I have a few suggestions that don't necessarily focus on discussion boards if anyone cares to hear.

Obvious Questions

Some/many of the complaint's are related to new people asking the 'obvious' questions.

Tak a hard look at the layout and content of the Guides. Is there something there that can be improved? Perhaps (just a tiny example) Can the Ads be on the right side instead of the left? (does this mask/distract from the content?) What is it that people don't see?

Ask someone who doesn't know anything about the Visa process to navigate the site and tell you how they would get a K1 (or whatever) (No coaching, leave the room) - let them tell you their thoughts when you return..

Posting Whores

I personally don't have an issue with people congratulating others - if you're the OP it's nice to see someone's paying attention. Think its to increase post count? Then let's eliminate that feature altogether - who's ready to commit to that?

Time-line Intensive

It is time-line intensive - people are under pressure - but, there's hope.. things could be added to the My Time-line pop-up page to ease some feelings...maybe a link to that users Embassy page (for example)..Embassy not there? Maybe it should be added. If the common answer to a "How come I'm not NOA1/2 yet?" is 'X' then how can 'X' be introduced?

Just some off-the-top-of-my head thoughts...

If the goal is to simply 'promote' certain individuals to Moderator, who believe they are entitled to it and want to control the message boards, then my suggestions would be much different.

[Niels Bohr 72]

I agree with your post, Karin. I don't know how unique my congratulatory will be, but, just wish there was a way to reset my counts without having to start a new account. Oh well. I'm leaving it as that.

[Otto 83]

Hmmm...Can someobody do a reset post counts. I am not in it for post counts when I say congratulations. I view the timelines of those who successfully went through the process, and at the excitement of seeing how happy they are I leave them a message. Or, better yet. Just not show the post counts, and let me be at the average counts forever.

I said I'd shut up, but you raise a point related to something I said that deserves comment.

VJ was ALWAYS intended to be a place where people could, should and were encouraged to post when good things happened, and where others could, should and would post congratulatory messages. It was a critical part of the need of the community then, and personally I think it is now just the same. There's nothing wrong with posting either type of message, and we should all welcome every scrap of success our members enjoy.

But post count is misleading - can be very misleading to those who don't know how it came about. To a newbie, 1,000 'great news, well done' posts is just the same, or more likely indeed to have been, 1,000 'this is how you do it' contributions. Yet it can't be turned off because otherwise there are no indicators of 'trust' of any kind for posters to go off other than how long anyone has been here - and that's not a safe indicator either!

I saw you get bashed in another thread earlier for your post count and way it was achieved, and the sad fact is that even if the poster was right in that criticism, it's still a sad reminder of how things have gone a little wrong here. Your 'congratulations' posts are every bit as much a part of the community here as my 'how immigration law works' posts (obliquely referring to that thread!) and they should be treated as such. To me, a 'post #######' is someone who posts fast and furious to build up the count just to seem important, and worse, who then uses that apparent status to try and assert views that supplant the wisdom of those who really do know. Post whores are the only ones who really know who they are, and while I used the term generically, it's inappropriate in my view for it to be used as a term to be bandied between users. That's something that while not perhaps a violation of the TOS, I would like to see stamped out.

Good Grief... I saw that thread and some of the 'participants' who were laughing and high-5ing about a successful "scolding" are some of the same folks who are active in this thread...

I know the thread you are talking about and, in fact, I have mentioned the same issue here. It isn't a case of being two faced y'know.

And there was no high 5-ing as you put it. It was a valid concern that was addressed, end of story. If you don't like anything we are trying to fix on VJ (as your posts in this thread show), you are free to go elsewhere.

I believe YOUR words were "He has been scolded..... " <--a cyber high five/gloating

And thanks for the invite to leave, but I am a member of the community and have things to say - unless this is an exclusive club...

[Marilyn. 340]

I knew this topic would get derailed at some point.....

lets get back to topic.....

Edited March 29, 2007 by MarilynP

[no name 1]

I believe YOUR words were "He has been scolded..... " <--a cyber high five/gloating

And thanks for the invite to leave, but I am a member of the community and have things to say - unless this is an exclusive club...

I was letting them know - in the UK forum, in a UK specific thread, not a global announcement about it. But thanks for checking in on me/us.

Every post you've made on this thread has been a dig at the ones who were dialoguing. I'm asking for some respect here instead of name calling. Not a big deal to do so.

[Andy 2]

Just some off-the-top-of-my head thoughts...

Last point first: the last people to be the right ones to moderate the site are the ones who WANT to moderate the site. The best moderators are those who do it because they know it's a necessary evil and who tread as softly as they can when posting anything, whether 'moderator' content or immigration information, and who rarely trim or lock.

On to your other points: Yes. I agree entirely with the structural/organizational ideas, and indeed they have been alluded to before in this thread in the course of discussion. I don't think there is an issue with what is or isn't needed most - I think improvements are needed overall, and those improvements can readily be achieved and implemented together or not.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Ask someone who doesn't know anything about the Visa process to navigate the site and tell you how they would get a K1 (or whatever) (No coaching, leave the room) - let them tell you their thoughts when you return..

This is a very actionable proposal. We can certainly do this and execute a new design based on feedback. Great idea!

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I would certainly like to start the process of a cleansweep / review of the guides and FAQ's. I will put in whatever time it takes to reformat and work on the technical side. I simply need the content to be reviewed and comments sent to me. One of the longest complains was that people could not search for things they wanted. The new search tool I added should improve results to the degree that google can work as they power the engine. Initial comments by members is that the new search works well which is great to hear!

[meauxna 15]

Everyone should not be afraid to report things.

Post reporting is generally socially unacceptable here. Please have a look at any of the threads on the topic (there might be a poll too) and you can see people's attitudes about that tool.

It's not being used the way you imagine, except perhaps by a few.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I think I need to socialize the need for it an remind people that reporting is anonymous and that just because something is reported it does not mean I will always agree with the person reporting it.

[ChasUK 0]

......so much as focus purely on the need for better moderation, the parameters of moderating work, and the method and circumstances of selection........

Personally, I'd like to see an agreement on there being member-based moderators appointed and have their roles clarified before there was any suggestion as to who might be best suited. Different roles may warrant consideration of different people after all.

Which is why I suggested that we perhaps start a thread in which to have the discussion.

Sure thing. If am pretty pressed for time at the moment so if you want to start it I will chime in later. Mention the new forum and make sure to clearly define how the new idea mike augment or replace that purpose. Conversation is always good!

I know you may not want to hear this but I wanted to say it before things got further. At this point I am not considering member moderators. The moderation will continue to be run but non participating parties that act solely based on the Terms of Service.

Am I missing something here? I just spent ages reading through all this. From the above quotes it looks to me like Andy suggested moderation parameters, Tracy said that was what she was suggesting a separate thread for, Cap'n Ewok said "go for it", but then locked the very thread with that final post!!??!!??

I'm confused. Did something change or did Cap'n Ewok not understand what Andy and Tracy suggested.