New K1 subforums?

[Andy 2]

See this thread where I posted a link TO THE ANSWER & was yelled at.....

A perfect example of why active moderation is a good thing - not only was that reaction idiotic and uncalled for, but the thread then vanishes so far off topic that it ceases to be of any use to anyone.

We shouldn't be trying to fix the consequences of lax moderation by any means other than improving moderation!

Edited March 26, 2007 by Andy

[J&D_anon 0]

I agree with rebecca and jo. Sub-forums would promote a division between all of us who are going through the same thing. Actually, the division is already there, it's just kinda.... ignored. When you consider the K1 process, the only thing CSC and VSC filers have is that we pay the same fee for the same process. That is about where the similarities end and that's where CSC filers frustrations begin.

To me and Diana, this forum was a good source for information.... and a place to share frustrations with those who are going through the same thing. Lately, it's been more of a kick to the groin, as we December filers @ CSC watch as March filers @ VSC receive NOA2. It only makes it worse when you see the "I sent my I-129F in yesterday, what's taking so long" posts from VSC filers. The fact is we are on the same journey, but some of us are taking the slower the 'Fellowship of the Ring' method while the rest of us are pod racing (for the LOTR & Star Wars geek in all of us) to the next step.

I don't think anybody faults VSC filers, but I'd say a good number of us CSC filers do envy you guys. We pay the same amount of money to the same branch of the same government and receive a much more inferior service. Imagine going to your favorite steak house and having the waitress seat you. You have the same menu as everybody else in the restaraunt. You order the $45 special of the day and the person directly across from you orders the exact same $45 dollar special of the day. When the waitress returns, the person across from you has a nice juicy 30oz sirloin with a bottle of '03 Paraduxx (my personal favorite) and you get a hot dog (not even Chicago or New York style) with a courtesy cup of warm tap water. You ask the waitress why, if you paid the same amount, is their special is so much better than yours and she responds that they're sitting in the area of the restaraunt that receivers better food. That is the difference in the service that we receive. That is why when the monthly filer posts go up, there's one for CSC/NSC/TSC and a seperate one for VSC.

In my eyes, it's not an 'us' (CSC) against 'them' (VSC) thing. It's just not quite an 'us' and 'them' thing, either. For us, it's really hard to sympathize with people who are worrying after 1 or 2 weeks when you can't really relate to them. I also doubt they know what it feels like for us to see them.

-John

Edited March 26, 2007 by John&Diana

[TracyTN 237]

I am happy to step up and say I will help moderate. I have said for a long time that this site is under moderated for such a huge place.

But how will active moderation help to heal the wounds of the VSC/CSC divide? What do you moderate - do you tell people not to create 'monthly service center' threads? Do you move them when they do? If so, where do you move them? Do you tell VSCers to be more sensitive to CSCers (when they more than likely don't feel they're being insensitve - and often times are NOT being insensitive, just true to life as they know it)?

Really - what can we do? I'm open other ideas as to how to mend what John&Diana so succintly described - if there's anyway it can be mended. It wasn't always this way. The K1 forum was not always so date and timeline driven.

Sorry if this rambles - I'm in a room with a bunch of loud talkers and can't concentrate.

[Andy 2]

I agree with rebecca and jo.....

With all due respect, and not with any intent to argue against your point regarding the impact of watching VSC posters with their short timeframes set against your much longer ones, your analogy about the steak isn't entirely fair since in the end you and the guy across the restaurant don't receive different meals after ordering the same one, you get the same meal, just that yours is much later than theirs.

That isn't fair and it isn't right, but it's not as if the VSC users can do anything about it. They have no more control over their processing times as you do over yours. To be sure they benefit from the VSC's faster processing stream, and it's highly frustrating to see that if you're not a VSC applicant, but it's a fact of the system that has been part of K-1 processing for at least 10 years - with a minor blip a couple of years ago when VSC ground to a standstill for a few months.

There's nothing wrong posting to a VSCer when they moan about lack of response after 2 weeks and pointing out that in fact that's a very short duration in comparison to the average times service centers take, and it's understandable to be frustrated by the VSC timelines when you are not a beneficiary of them, but it's not the VSC customers who are at fault or to blame for any of it.

[Andy 2]

I am happy to step up and say I will help moderate. I have said for a long time that this site is under moderated for such a huge place.

But how will active moderation help to heal the wounds of the VSC/CSC divide? What do you moderate - do you tell people not to create 'monthly service center' threads? Do you move them when they do? If so, where do you move them? Do you tell VSCers to be more sensitive to CSCers (when they more than likely don't feel they're being insensitve - and often times are NOT being insensitive, just true to life as they know it)?

Really - what can we do? I'm open other ideas as to how to mend what John&Diana so succintly described - if there's anyway it can be mended. It wasn't always this way. The K1 forum was not always so date and timeline driven.

Sorry if this rambles - I'm in a room with a bunch of loud talkers and can't concentrate.

Moderating these things is all about changing the culture and climate of the discussions taking place. Removing content that spits good service in the faces of those suffering bad service, stopping the VSC vs every other SC debates and the like. There need be no place for 'I got my NOA' posts in the main discussion unless it asks a question which in itself is as applicable to other users regardless of service center.

In the old days, there were frequent frustrations between the various SC users - VSC was taking it's customary 14 days and Nebraska for instance was in practice taking 18 months for many I-129Fs at one point. We didn't need to do much more than remind people very now and then that this was not a matter of useful debate since no-one is able to change it. I think I recall having to chop one thread on the subject once, otherwise it was merely gentle reminders that controlled the climate of the area - and that was at a time when processing times were far more divergent than they are now.

[TracyTN 237]

I don't think John&Diana was faulting VSC filers. In fact, he said "I don't think anybody faults VSC filers". We don't, and anyone who tries to 'blame' them is barking up the wrong tree.

Just read Andy's last post. I'd be all about chopping away such content as not being 'useful debate'.

Edited March 26, 2007 by TracyTN

[Andy 2]

I don't think John&Diana was faulting VSC filers. In fact, he said "I don't think anybody faults VSC filers". We don't, and anyone who tries to 'blame' them is barking up the wrong tree.

Just read Andy's last post. I'd be all about chopping away such content as not being 'useful debate'.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone does 'blame' VSCers for their improved service level, just that it's very to take the comparative poorness of one's own service personally when reading the content which, as you rightly said, has become somewhat 'timeline driven'. The problem is that one's frustration at having to wait impacts on the way posts from others who are less unfortunate are then read, and as can be seen in places, it does become personal, and the fact it's become a bone of contention seems to evidence that fact.

I have to say that if were a moderator here as I once was, I would look to be very active in trimming content in that area of the site and removing posts that were not necessary to good 'debate'. I hate that kind of moderation, but I think it's necessary at the outset to get it back under control. After that, far easier, lighter, nudging of threads with reminders where necessary are all that would be necessary to keep things under better control and thus service the needs of all users rather better. After all, even if we segregate the service areas, those who do want to chirp gleefully at their 2 week turnaround will continue to do that regardless, and many won't be much bothered where they post so it won't fix the problem. A moderator able to restore some semblance of community would.

Is it going to happen? I wish! VJ was actually based around that K-1 discussion area so it's not pleasant to see what it's like now! But we managed then to control the disparate voices having to wait brief days or an interminable lifetime for their approval without segregating discussions, so there's no reason to think we can't now. Sadly we'll more likely get the simplest solution or none (and this issue has been raised before), so what do I know!?!

[J&D_anon 0]

I agree with rebecca and jo.....

With all due respect, and not with any intent to argue against your point regarding the impact of watching VSC posters with their short timeframes set against your much longer ones, your analogy about the steak isn't entirely fair since in the end you and the guy across the restaurant don't receive different meals after ordering the same one, you get the same meal, just that yours is much later than theirs.

That isn't fair and it isn't right, but it's not as if the VSC users can do anything about it. They have no more control over their processing times as you do over yours. To be sure they benefit from the VSC's faster processing stream, and it's highly frustrating to see that if you're not a VSC applicant, but it's a fact of the system that has been part of K-1 processing for at least 10 years - with a minor blip a couple of years ago when VSC ground to a standstill for a few months.

There's nothing wrong posting to a VSCer when they moan about lack of response after 2 weeks and pointing out that in fact that's a very short duration in comparison to the average times service centers take, and it's understandable to be frustrated by the VSC timelines when you are not a beneficiary of them, but it's not the VSC customers who are at fault or to blame for any of it.

I wouldn't ask VSC users to change it if they could. As I said, I'm envious of them... IF I had my way, I wouldn't dare change the quality of service that they receive to be equal to that which CSC filers receive. My choice would be to have ours changed to be equivalent to theirs. That is the difference in being spiteful and envious. I am happy for anybody who gets through the process, but at the same time it is a major point of frustration. I know I cannot change anything, but I don't have to be happy with the way it currently is. As far as I'm concerned, there is no blame to be put on VSC filers. The blame is on those who are in charge of the service not providing a fair and balanced service. Please, do not make me out to be the bad guy... at least, not by implying things that I never said.

As for the analogy, I think it's a pretty accurate one. In my eyes, the service they receive is better. Better, because it's faster... but in the end it's better. Their service is steak and ours is a frankfurter. That's another conversation, for another time though.

[rebeccajo 14]

Why do the Vermont petitions have to be such a thorn in the side of the rest of the community?

Everything about VJ has gotten to be so TIMELINE related. IMO it's actually HARD to find anecdotal evidence beyond 'when did you mail your case'.

I'm not surprised the newer members get so bent out of shape if their petition doesn't process at light-speed. It's hard to find content on this board that isn't about zero to sixty in 30 seconds or less.

[TracyTN 237]

Why do the Vermont petitions have to be such a thorn in the side of the rest of the community?

Everything about VJ has gotten to be so TIMELINE related. IMO it's actually HARD to find anecdotal evidence beyond 'when did you mail your case'.

I'm not surprised the newer members get so bent out of shape if their petition doesn't process at light-speed. It's hard to find content on this board that isn't about zero to sixty in 30 seconds or less.

I guess rebeccajo just succintly posted (in three small paragraphs) what I've been trying to get at. I think the timeline driven VJ doesn't help VJ - it, in fact, hurts it.

There is a good reason to have the timeline data - you can look at it when you want to by going to that particular section of the site. But to have it otherwise shoved down your throat rampantly in the K1 forum seems counterproductive to me.

You can see if you are outside VJ timelines very easily - but having endless talk about it really rubs salt in wounds, not to mention the difficulty of finding what rj called 'anecdotal evidence'. What purpose does it serve beyond that?

It IS as if its all become a race. Maybe we should rename the site to Visa Race.

[Andy 2]

.... Please, do not make me out to be the bad guy... at least, not by implying things that I never said.

That's not what I'm doing or intending. It's not a question of anything but the consequence of the discussions there being of the nature they are, and what can or should be done to prevent the degradation of the service WE offer to OUR users here in VJ, let alone what service the service centers offer their users around the country.

I've worked for years around this system and I've seen this happen over and over again, and I can tell you that as far as the Regional Directors are concerned, they think they are offering a fair and balanced service, regardless of the differences in processing times. You don't, of course have to be happy at the consequences of that view, but on the other hand, since that is the system and that's how it works, unless you're going to take an active part in trying to change it (and it has been done, so that's not just a throwaway remark) all you can do is accept it as it is and live with it - less frustration comes from that path.

I've been through this system so believe me I understand it. I've worked hundreds and hundreds of cases, so believe me I know exactly what you mean and have dealt with every inequity in the system you can imagine - maybe some you can't - but in the end, the system is exactly what it is - in almost every respect for very specific reasons.

Anyway, apologies, that's getting off the point of the thread and diluting the potential for encouraging change of whatever form is thought useful. I just wouldn't want to see that part of VJ segregated as the service centers are, because that way lies poorer and less equitable service for our users, just as it has for petitioners around the country.

[no name 1]

Why do the Vermont petitions have to be such a thorn in the side of the rest of the community?

Because we both pay the same $$, follow the same app process & yet you get processed faster than CSC, it's as simple as that. And all the issues discussed previously in this thread.

It IS as if its all become a race. Maybe we should rename the site to Visa Race.

very true. But try to tell me a time when trying to be with your foreign honey wasn't a race....

[Andy 2]

I guess rebeccajo just succintly posted (in three small paragraphs) what I've been trying to get at. I think the timeline driven VJ doesn't help VJ - it, in fact, hurts it.

I couldn't agree more. In the first instance, VJ users were encouraged to post timelines because none of the published data from the USCIS was accurate, and indeed, at one point in either 2002 or 2003 the INS (as was then) actually admitted massaging processing times in their mandatory reports to Congress to help hide the poor performance, delays and backlogs. Posting timelines was often the ONLY way members could figure out what was going on and how long their own cases were likely to take.

These days, it's hard to tell if the USCIS are anything like as casual with the truth as before, but likely not since Congressional oversight is certainly rather more harsh and senior USCIS people suffered from the previous experience, so timelines have very little value as they are used here now, and I agree, they are damaging - certainly can be very misleading since they don't give any real clue as to how long others can expect to wait.

[LaL 418]

Why do the Vermont petitions have to be such a thorn in the side of the rest of the community?

Because we both pay the same $$, follow the same app process & yet you get processed faster than CSC, it's as simple as that. And all the issues discussed previously in this thread.

it's the facts when dealing with USCIS. Every step of the way has road blocks for some and others sail right through. I'm sorry, but I'm still at "so what if VSC processes faster". It's unfair. So is many many many many other items we could all gripe about on our journeys. Problem is often we are trying to compare our journeys to others' (I'm guilty). You just can't. Use it as a guide, but don't bet your life on how another *march* filer is doing (as an example). It will make your journey a heck of a lot harder.

[Jenn! 918]

I really don't understand the resentment towards VSC filers. I know that might not mean very much coming from a VSC filer, but IMO NOA1 to NOA2 is just one component in a long journey. If it's not you're so lucky because you get to file at VSC, then it is you're so lucky because my consulate takes 6 months to schedule interviews and yours only takes 1, or you're so lucky because your AOS application got transferred to CSC.

VSCers aren't the only ones who have a leg up. It happens all throughout the journey and I agree that there's no need to create more division.

ETA: Yeah, what Laura said.

Edited March 26, 2007 by jenn3539