New K1 subforums?

[no name 1]

So I would like to possible identify the issues that are troublesome to members. Is it trolls, member attitudes, etc. Certain things are easier to address than others. Can we narrow it down?

For trolls I have a tool I can roll out that if a member is here less than 30 days and his posts are reported more than X times in 24 hours than his account is automatically suspended pending review. This is a way that members can flag obvious trolls and has the fail safe that within 12-24 hours I will review it and unlock the account if needed.

for me, it's a general lack of respect & the entitlement attitude. No one wants to read guides & are insulted if they are pointed to *gasp* a link.

Maybe the respect thing is because there aren't obvious mods around. I know when you come around Cap'n, people tend to straighten up.

The trolls are here but not so bad. The people who do congrats posts on every thread, just to increase post count are very annoying. I never noticed that when I joined last year.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

If a member is an obvious troll, of which there have been a few, can you not ban that IP number?

Yes. I frequently do that.

[Andy 2]

There are other issues at hand other than that. I would rather not list them all but suffice it to say that I still think that if we work as a team and with the proper tools the site can see some benefits.

Working as a team at the very least implies a degree of equity and cooperation, not to mention information exchange, rather than imposition of a decision by one in the face of commentary by others.

As I see it, there are plenty of members in the discussion areas who need better support and tools that help keep issues under control and content and climate conducive to the working of the site. That they don't get this, that the guides and FAQ are falling out of date and that more and more content is being posted that has greater potential to the detriment of readers than before is indicative of what we have been saying here.

We know what we want VJ to be - a community of members involved it US immigration issues in whatever form, who use this place as somewhere to visit as often as they need and get help, have questions answered, provide information, yell success from the rooftop, get commiseration and support on failure, to just gather and encourage, or be encouraged, the let off steam, to find the key.

The actual truth is, I think, that in every respect to some degree it is failing. It's not so much a community any more because so many people tend to be pulling in too many different directions. We've become a club for some where they can gather with a few 'friends' and mutter and moan or contribute often unhelpful content to other people's threads. We've got some who have just entered the process but already give advice (some very bad). We have others who decry anything that isn't there own contribution. Others who bully members with sharp retorts and personal invective. It's increasingly difficult to get help here since many are very sharp with the 'read the guides' replies that while perhaps correct in an ideal world, don't take into account the fact that the guides are not heavily maintained. Or who's question is answered by someone with no real knowledge but who wants to assert themselves as right. By post-hoares who run up their post count with 'hello', 'congratulation', 'me too' type answers and thus when they contribute remarks of any kind, are taken by newbie or those unfamiliar with them as being somehow authoritative. We have threads that are hijacked by personal discussions where the OP never gets another look in, or where the answers degenerate into debate about something related but not responsive to the OP. We have complex cases (and in truth even the simplest immigration case has considerable complexity and nuance) which are handled as if the issues were black and white and simple. We have posters who are in trouble and derided, contributors who know what they are talking about being mocked, belittled and contradicted by those who don't. There are members who come here with difficulties and who face personal attack and vilification, or are dealt with abruptly or with a prickly and unfriendly attitude. We have replies like 'it's your own fault' and 'get over it'.

What we have is an unruly society of people, doing their own thing, saying what they want, when they want, where they want and without a great deal of regard for much but their own freedom of expression. The atmosphere in many areas is not supportive, but combative.

If that's the VJ you want, then shame. If it's not, then you might want to enlighten 'the team' with an explanation as to your plans to resolve some or all of the above?

[Marilyn. 340]

I don't think it is necessarily because people don't want to read the guides, but most people would rather hear from personal experience...

also I have noticed that some people are sometimes I bit snippy or maybe it comes off that way when they point out a link a person should read....

[Mags 112]

So I would like to possible identify the issues that are troublesome to members. Is it trolls, member attitudes, etc. Certain things are easier to address than others. Can we narrow it down?

For trolls I have a tool I can roll out that if a member is here less than 30 days and his posts are reported more than X times in 24 hours than his account is automatically suspended pending review. This is a way that members can flag obvious trolls and has the fail safe that within 12-24 hours I will review it and unlock the account if needed.

for me, it's a general lack of respect & the entitlement attitude. No one wants to read guides & are insulted if they are pointed to *gasp* a link.

Maybe the respect thing is because there aren't obvious mods around. I know when you come around Cap'n, people tend to straighten up.

The trolls are here but not so bad. The people who do congrats posts on every thread, just to increase post count are very annoying. I never noticed that when I joined last year.

Yes, that is very annoying.

I don't think it is necessarily because people don't want to read the guides, but most people would rather hear from personal experience...

also I have noticed that some people are sometimes I bit snippy or maybe it comes off that way when they point out a link a person should read....

Agreed.

[Jenn! 918]

I thought that giving suggestions about things that need to be moderated is exactly what we were doing in the other thread.

I guess I will reiterate my points here.

I think one of the roles of the moderator should be to change topic titles if necessary to something that makes it clear what information will be found within the topic. It will help tremendously with searches and just overall clarity.

Also, I would like to see a lot more locking of threads with redirection to already existing threads. I suppose people will have varying opinions on this, but all other boards that I've been a part of have a pretty strict rule about opening up a new thread to address the same topic. I think this will also contribute to searchability.

[TracyTN 237]

What we have is an unruly society of people, doing their own thing, saying what they want, when they want, where they want and without a great deal of regard for much but their own freedom of expression. The atmosphere in many areas is not supportive, but combative.

[Marilyn. 340]

i have been here awhile and I thought this group was formed to offer support and encouragement to people who are all going through the same thing....

None of us are experts on all this stuff, we have just learned stuff through personal experience and most of us just want to pass the knowledge along to others...

The guides are great but they shouldn't be taken any more as fact then what people post on VJ... because are they not created by people who have gone through this journey and not by experts...??....

Yeah there is squabbling but Captain Ewok does a great job in clearing it up as quickly as possible.... But if there is a problem people need to report it and not expect Ewok to see it eventually....

I really don't see any more squabbling then there has been in the past....

And post whoring as been here since I first joined so it is nothing new either..... but who are we to decide if it is really post whoring or not......

I have more thoughts but they seem to have escaped me right now.... will post later if I can remember

Edited March 29, 2007 by MarilynP

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

There are other issues at hand other than that. I would rather not list them all but suffice it to say that I still think that if we work as a team and with the proper tools the site can see some benefits.

Working as a team at the very least implies a degree of equity and cooperation, not to mention information exchange, rather than imposition of a decision by one in the face of commentary by others.

As I see it, there are plenty of members in the discussion areas who need better support and tools that help keep issues under control and content and climate conducive to the working of the site. That they don't get this, that the guides and FAQ are falling out of date and that more and more content is being posted that has greater potential to the detriment of readers than before is indicative of what we have been saying here.

We know what we want VJ to be - a community of members involved it US immigration issues in whatever form, who use this place as somewhere to visit as often as they need and get help, have questions answered, provide information, yell success from the rooftop, get commiseration and support on failure, to just gather and encourage, or be encouraged, the let off steam, to find the key.

The actual truth is, I think, that in every respect to some degree it is failing. It's not so much a community any more because so many people tend to be pulling in too many different directions. We've become a club for some where they can gather with a few 'friends' and mutter and moan or contribute often unhelpful content to other people's threads. We've got some who have just entered the process but already give advice (some very bad). We have others who decry anything that isn't there own contribution. Others who bully members with sharp retorts and personal invective. It's increasingly difficult to get help here since many are very sharp with the 'read the guides' replies that while perhaps correct in an ideal world, don't take into account the fact that the guides are not heavily maintained. Or who's question is answered by someone with no real knowledge but who wants to assert themselves as right. By post-hoares who run up their post count with 'hello', 'congratulation', 'me too' type answers and thus when they contribute remarks of any kind, are taken by newbie or those unfamiliar with them as being somehow authoritative. We have threads that are hijacked by personal discussions where the OP never gets another look in, or where the answers degenerate into debate about something related but not responsive to the OP. We have complex cases (and in truth even the simplest immigration case has considerable complexity and nuance) which are handled as if the issues were black and white and simple. We have posters who are in trouble and derided, contributors who know what they are talking about being mocked, belittled and contradicted by those who don't. There are members who come here with difficulties and who face personal attack and vilification, or are dealt with abruptly or with a prickly and unfriendly attitude. We have replies like 'it's your own fault' and 'get over it'.

What we have is an unruly society of people, doing their own thing, saying what they want, when they want, where they want and without a great deal of regard for much but their own freedom of expression. The atmosphere in many areas is not supportive, but combative.

If that's the VJ you want, then shame. If it's not, then you might want to enlighten 'the team' with an explanation as to your plans to resolve some or all of the above?

Do you think that having member moderators will fix all that? I really do want to help but this will take time (and honestly I spend a great deal trying to do my best). Regarding the Guides and FAQ's, I am always ready to update them on the spot when people give feedback. I would be more than glad to kick off a round of house keeping and improve them in general. To do so there would need to be volunteers and the will for people to help. I think that promoting events such as this on the site may indeed help spawn the sense of community that we are discussing here. Thoughts?

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Yeah there is squabbling but Captain Ewok does a great job in clearing it up as quickly as possible.... But if there is a problem people need to report it and not expect Ewok to see it eventually....

This is an important point because I honestly will not see things if they are not reported. If it take 50 reported posts a day then that is ok with me (although I hope it is not 50). I would be more than happy to look into anything people may be concerned with but I can not read the minds of all the members and rely on reported threads to get my eyes on things that may need attention.

As a note, I get about 3-4 reported threads a day (which is very low) most days (barring something crazy). If things are this bad then I am guessing they are being under reported and I would welcome the additional feedback by sending me more reported threads. It is the only way I can spot trouble members and other issues.

I really think that if people think that there is not enough moderation then at least partially it may be because I am not seeing the issues that people would like more moderation on. If it is a TOS violation then let me know.

[no name 1]

None of us are experts on all this stuff, we have just learned stuff through personal experience and most of us just want to pass the knowledge along to others...

The guides are great but they shouldn't be taken any more as fact then what people post on VJ... because are they not created by people who have gone through this journey and not by experts...??....

Which is EXACTLY what VJ says it is. The guides are valuable BECAUSE the people who contribute have been through it.

On the home page:

Our goal is to educate and provide general information regarding family and marriage based immigration (K1, K3, DCF, etc) for a spouse, fiance, parent(s) or other close relatives to reunite and bring together families. If you are new to the site please take a look at some of our site's great features such as the Guides, FAQ's, Forums, Gallery, Example Forms and more. We provide you with a great array of general information useful in filing your I-129f, I-130, I-134, I-485 and other USCIS and immigration forms. We encourage all members to seek a qualified immigration attorney as this site is no substitute for the valuable help and advice a good attorney can provide! Please also be familiar with the Terms of Service before using this site.

Once again, we welcome you and encourage you to become a member of our growing community! Share your experiences and relax here knowing you are not alone! Make sure that you also take the time to add your information to our Immigration Timeline section! -The Visajourney Family

[Andy 2]

This is an important point because I honestly will not see things if they are not reported....

THAT is one of the primary reasons for having a moderating team comprising members who are invested in the outcome.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I guess from my perspective I would just like the chance to demonstrate that if I get more than 3-4 reported posts a day I can probably easily handle some of the issues raised in this thread. There are several members that PM me regularly on issues and nine times out of ten I agree and quickly act on them. Everyone should not be afraid to report things.

An example is the MENA forum where I specifically told them to let me know when things were bad. I made a serious point to emphasize the TOS and it was a benefit to everyone. I do not think anyone took it personally and in the end things were much better for the community.

[Marilyn. 340]

This is an important point because I honestly will not see things if they are not reported....

THAT is one of the primary reasons for having a moderating team comprising members who are invested in the outcome.

but why do we need moderators for that.... if people are having problems they should just report it......

a lot of people are trying to say that VJ has gotten worse and worse but it really hasn't.... I have been here for almost 3 years already and I have seen my fair share of arguments and squabbles over those 3 years..... but they never really last long .....

Edited March 29, 2007 by MarilynP

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Do you think that adding a note to the new members guide indicating that it is "ok" to report threads (and in fact very important) will help? I can also post a notice site wide to remind people.