Babies, Children, Mentally Incapacitated Get Into Heaven for Free

[Rob and Melinda 0]

Everyone is saved exacty the same way. The people alive on the earth before Jesus made His sacrificce on the Cross, knew from Gods Word about a coming Savior, if they believe that word from God, they were saved.

How did they know? From what exactly?

You are really not reading the former posts I already made on this subject are you?

Are you asking me these questions because you really want to know the answers so that you can know If you could put your faith in Jesus Christ? Or are you just asking so that you can argue with me. If that is the case then my further answers serve no useful pupose for you. It does give others a chance to see how hardened some people are to the Love of God, and they get to see how God really feels about them as I tell them of His love for them. But I dont really want to keep repeating the same answers over and over again...

Rob

I'm just a little perplexed that you keep making specific references to overwhelming historical evidence, when what it really comes down to is entirely about faith and is entirely unspecific and outside of "that book" is entirely unproven.

It seems to me you're accepting as fact certain political judgements made about classical (non-christian) civilisations by the early church - which purged the older religions by demonising them (hence the reason why Pan so closely resembles the classical image of the devil).

Not true at all. The Christian faith as you put it, is based upon Historical fact, eyewitness testimony, Science, Astronomy, Mathematics, Logic and Revealed prophecy, just to mention a few.

I would recomend a few books to you, Creator Beyond time and space, God and the Cosmos, and any of Chuck Misslers books on the authenticity of the Bible.

If you are REALLY intrested I will give you scientific and other basis for "Faith" in Jesus Christ...

Rob

I don't doubt the bible has historical significance - but when people start introducing political discourses like creationism and intelligent design into the mix, then I tune out. I don't need mumbo-jumbo to understand symbolism and metaphor.

Oh but in history, science and mathematics is where the Bible really gets interesting and overwhelmingly convincing.

Rob

[Jenn! 918]

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

You can keep assuming and predicting reasons for people's behavior all you like. But you are deluding yourself.

I must say that I think people have been very tolerant of your preaching, much more than I would have expected here on VJ.

At this point, I have completely lost respect for you and your opinion.

I'm sure you will say that it's because I hate Jesus. So be it. Maybe just think about doing a little bit of self-reflection.

ETA: Maybe you could pick up some pointers from stina. She believes as you do, but many here including myself have much respect for her and her opinion. Face it, you're doing something wrong.

Edited March 26, 2007 by jenn3539

[Rob and Melinda 0]

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

You can keep assuming and predicting reasons for people's behavior all you like. But you are deluding yourself.

I must say that I think people have been very tolerant of your preaching, much more than I would have expected here on VJ.

At this point, I have completely lost respect for you and your opinion.

I'm sure you will say that it's because I hate Jesus. So be it. Maybe just think about doing a little bit of self-reflection.

You know the only problem with all that is that you have not stopped to consider that perhaps everything Jesus said and that the Bible says is really true. If it wasnt I woulld be here taking all this!

I am here because I care, that's all. I don't get anythng here by answering all the same questions I have answerd hundreds of times. I am here because there is so much interest in Jesus.

If there is not this interest, then why all the questions, and why all the friction? The post Got Jesus is the biggest response post on the polls section. That frankly surprised me. I thought that this generation wasn't interested in Jesus Christ or the Bible anyore. I have found that the opposite is true here.

The opposition that I have encountered here is proof to me that you still have something inside of you that wants to know God. I have been around long enough to know that opposition is really interest.

Case in point, I challenge everyone that posts here on Got Jesus and the Babies poll, if you dont want to hear this anymore, stop posting and I will go away...

BTW I am not pursuing you, you are coming here to the posts I started.

Rob

Edited March 26, 2007 by Rob and Melinda

[Mags 112]

You won't miss heaven because of Rob, you will miss it because you missed Jesus.

I have nothing to do with you making it or missing heaven, it all depends on what you do with Jesus Christ.

Actually, no. Self righteous people like you really p!ss me off. YOU turn me off religion, NOT the religion itself. There are many religions I am interested in, most of them are Pagan based religions where people don't get in your face and try to convert you.

And why in the world would you want to go to heaven anyway since that is the home of the God you don't seem to believe?

I don't. I was trying to make a point, which flew RIGHT over your head didn't it? You tout Heaven and Jesus as a reason for believing....MY point was, even if I DID believe I wouldn't want to go to heaven because it would be filled with people like you.

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

Offended? Hell no. Angry? Nah, not at all. Just putting MY point across which I am JUST as entitled to as you. Don't forget that.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

I didn't go after you, you came to me...

Rob

Hahahaha, clever. Almost seems as if you had that one planned. FYI, I am Pagan. I feel no need for any influence of Jesus or his "followers" in my life. When you start a topic like this, don't be so arrogant to assume that people who respond are interested in Jesus. It's a debate. Not a conversion thread....or perhaps it is in your eyes.

P.S. My husband always said to me that you can't argue with a proselytizing Christian. He was right.

Edited March 26, 2007 by mags

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't have a problem with the message - just that its being presented in such a way that the goal appears to be to "sermonise and convert". There's an unspoken assumption that people are not comfortable in beliefs that are for a lot of people very personal.

At this point an "end of the world" sandwich board probably wouldn't go amiss...

[Niels Bohr 72]

No. The bible is not science. I know because I'm an Engineer. If I relied on the bible, then your life as well as everyone else here would probably suffered major consequences from my errors.

Engineers' Ethic Code:

You must never jeopardize the safety of the public.

Edited March 26, 2007 by consolemaster

[Jenn! 918]

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

You can keep assuming and predicting reasons for people's behavior all you like. But you are deluding yourself.

I must say that I think people have been very tolerant of your preaching, much more than I would have expected here on VJ.

At this point, I have completely lost respect for you and your opinion.

I'm sure you will say that it's because I hate Jesus. So be it. Maybe just think about doing a little bit of self-reflection.

You know the only problem with all that is that you have not stopped to consider that perhaps everything Jesus said and that the Bible says is really true. If it wasnt I woulld be here taking all this!

I am here because I care, that's all. I don't get anythng here by answering all the same questions I have answerd hundreds of times. I am here because there is so much interest in Jesus.

If there is not this interest, then why all the questions, and why all the friction? The post Got Jesus is the biggest response post on the polls section. That frankly surprised me. I thought that this generation wasn't interested in Jesus Christ or the Bible anyore. I have found that the opposite is true here.

The opposition that I have encountered here is proof to me that you still have something inside of you that wants to know God. I have been around long enough to know that opposition is really interest.

Case in point, I challenge everyone that posts here on Got Jesus and the Babies poll, if you dont want to hear this anymore, stop posting and I will go away...

BTW I am not pursuing you, you are coming here to the posts I started.

Rob

Rob, I am just trying to help you, honestly. If your mission is to open people's eyes to Jesus' love, you are seriously going about it in all the wrong way. I don't know why you keep ignoring that suggestion that's been brought up to you so many times by believers and nonbelievers alike.

[ya falaha! 0]

That's what I was taught as a child, too. I was raised Catholic.

Pets go to heaven. He created them. He spared them from the flood, did'nt HE, and He made a donkey speak to a man who was whipping him horribly. The Scripture says ' Let everything that has breath Praise the Lord ' .

He created animals before he created man.

That ain't what they teach in the Baptist churches. I've been taught that pets have no soul so they do not go to heaven. The way it was put to me...believe it or not, it doesn't matter...what we say is the truth. One of their favourite sayings is "God said it, that settles it, whether you believe it or not".

[doodlebug 3]

You know the only problem with all that is that you have not stopped to consider that perhaps everything Jesus said and that the Bible says is really true. If it wasnt I woulld be here taking all this!

So that logic would mean that if I start talking about alien life on Mars and I sit here and take abuse for it, then it must be true.

I am here because I care, that's all. I don't get anythng here by answering all the same questions I have answerd hundreds of times. I am here because there is so much interest in Jesus.

And I thought we were all here because our spouses are applying for visas. Boy did I take a wrong left turn or what???

If there is not this interest, then why all the questions, and why all the friction?The post Got Jesus is the biggest response post on the polls section. That frankly surprised me. I thought that this generation wasn't interested in Jesus Christ or the Bible anyore. I have found that the opposite is true here.

Dude...people are bored and you stick out like a sore thumb. Of course you're gonna get the most posts!!!

The opposition that I have encountered here is proof to me that you still have something inside of you that wants to know God. I have been around long enough to know that opposition is really interest.

I think you need to stick around longer 'cause that ain't it bro.

Case in point, I challenge everyone that posts here on Got Jesus and the Babies poll, if you dont want to hear this anymore, stop posting and I will go away...

I challenge you to go away!!!

[Rob and Melinda 0]

No. The bible is not science. I know because I'm an Engineer. If I relied on the bible, then your life as well as everyone else here would probably suffered major consequences from my errors.

Engineers' Ethic Code:

You must never jeopardize the safety of the public.

Are you also an expert on the Bible? or have you been taught what the bible says is myth, fantasy or heresay?

I challenge you to try and dissprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ...everyone who has taken up that challenge came away with two conclusions.

1. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they commited their lives to Him.

2. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they rejected Him anyway.

Rob

[Niels Bohr 72]

Nope. Eventhough, I'm not educated in the bible I do know that if I rely on god to control your life. You would die already.

Constructing and controlling power systems, etc...cannot be based on faith. And, the I've read a few pages of the bible and I find it disturbing that people follows these things that's been translated by a King.

I will never accept the bible as fact because everyone would probably die.

[Rob and Melinda 0]

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

You can keep assuming and predicting reasons for people's behavior all you like. But you are deluding yourself.

I must say that I think people have been very tolerant of your preaching, much more than I would have expected here on VJ.

At this point, I have completely lost respect for you and your opinion.

I'm sure you will say that it's because I hate Jesus. So be it. Maybe just think about doing a little bit of self-reflection.

You know the only problem with all that is that you have not stopped to consider that perhaps everything Jesus said and that the Bible says is really true. If it wasnt I woulld be here taking all this!

I am here because I care, that's all. I don't get anythng here by answering all the same questions I have answerd hundreds of times. I am here because there is so much interest in Jesus.

If there is not this interest, then why all the questions, and why all the friction? The post Got Jesus is the biggest response post on the polls section. That frankly surprised me. I thought that this generation wasn't interested in Jesus Christ or the Bible anyore. I have found that the opposite is true here.

The opposition that I have encountered here is proof to me that you still have something inside of you that wants to know God. I have been around long enough to know that opposition is really interest.

Case in point, I challenge everyone that posts here on Got Jesus and the Babies poll, if you dont want to hear this anymore, stop posting and I will go away...

BTW I am not pursuing you, you are coming here to the posts I started.

Rob

Rob, I am just trying to help you, honestly. If your mission is to open people's eyes to Jesus' love, you are seriously going about it in all the wrong way. I don't know why you keep ignoring that suggestion that's been brought up to you so many times by believers and nonbelievers alike.

Thanks for the concern but I have heard all of these things from everyone who rejects Jesus and the Bible for a very long time.

At first when I was saved I was really hurt that everyone couldn't see how wonderful Jesus was, so I tried not to offend anyone.

Then as I educated myself and learned how incredible the Bible is, I became more bold and learned that those people who put up the biggest front of argument are often the ones that are the closest to accepting Jesus love for them.

They fight so hard to ignore Him and His love for them, but finally they just cannot take it anymore, the Love of God is so overhwhelming that they finally realize how much they are loved and all that Jesus did to prove that love to them.

So it is worth it to me if people really want to know answers, I will try to give them WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

I have not been angry, tired, or hateful towards anyone here, I have only told the truth. When the truth hits home, it really hurts. When you have cancer it takes a scalpel to remove it, and there is some pain involved. I cannot save or change anyone and I have no desire to. I am a fisherman, not a cleaner of the fish. Whatever needs to be done in your life, Jesus will do once you come to Him, I am only a messenger...

Rob cannot save anyone, only the precious blood of Jesus can do that. (The Bible's Words, not mine)

Rob

[Rob and Melinda 0]

Nope. Eventhough, I'm not educated in the bible I do know that if I rely on god to control your life. You would die already.

Constructing and controlling power systems, etc...cannot be based on faith. And, the I've read a few pages of the bible and I find it disturbing that people follows these things that's been translated by a King.

I will never accept the bible as fact because everyone would probably die.

So what you are saying is that you have disscounted the Bible and the ressurection of Jesus Christ without ever doing a serious search yourself. You have based your whole eternal life on the teaching of people who dont believe the Bible either.

If you want a real challenge, take up your own education and prove to yourself that Jesus DID NOT raise from the dead.

Don't take my word for it or any other man, you find out for yourself...unless of course you dont really want to

Rob

[Niels Bohr 72]

I can't prove it.

The education level of the people during that time weren't as advance as ours. They have no knowledge of biological systems, cellular systems, etc...As far as I'm concerned, reading the bible is almost like reading a book written by a elementary school student due to the education level back then. It's highly unreliable.

We cannot compare current times with times of the past. The adrenaline of conquering new worlds is pushed by the will of a child who wants everything. An adult back then simply almost have the conscious of a teenager. Hence, the bible is not a reliable source.

Edited March 26, 2007 by consolemaster

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I challenge you to try and dissprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ...everyone who has taken up that challenge came away with two conclusions.

1. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they commited their lives to Him.

2. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they rejected Him anyway.

Here's my problem with that - you said early on something along the lines about the resurrection being the most historically verified event in human history. That is a specific claim. Specific claims can be backed up with specific evidence to prove the point. If you're making a specific point like that, its logical to assume that you have that specific reasoning and evidence to hand to back it up. Otherwise its going to raise eyebrows. Naturally.

So far - your only defense for that claim is to fall back on the bible, which of course is going to say that the resurrection took place. The claim that the event itself is the most historically verified event in history implies (at least to some degree) more than one source. So far I've not seen those - but then again I have no real desire to prove or disprove the event anyway. To each his own.