Babies, Children, Mentally Incapacitated Get Into Heaven for Free

[doodlebug 3]

Are you 100% sure that politics didn't play a hand at the Council of Nicea when they were deciding which books can and cannot go into the bible?

How well did Matthew Mark Luke and John know Jesus? Did any of them ever meet him in person?

Why did an all powerful God need to send anyone to save his people. Is he not powerful enough to grant them His own mercy that He needs to have help?

If Jesus had to leave in order for the holy spirit to arrive, why the heck was John the Baptist baptizing in the name of the holy spirit while Jesus was still alive?

Why would Jesus, who is God according to the trinity, have to beg God to let this chalice pass him by? Isn't that like begging himself? And why did God not answer his prayer? And if he was to be the sacraficial lamb because God is not poweful enough to forgive people on his own accord, why did he try to hide in the garden of Gethsemane? Why not just walk right up to them since this was his main purpose for being?

Just askin'

[Rob and Melinda 0]

Are you 100% sure that politics didn't play a hand at the Council of Nicea when they were deciding which books can and cannot go into the bible?

How well did Matthew Mark Luke and John know Jesus? Did any of them ever meet him in person?

Why did an all powerful God need to send anyone to save his people. Is he not powerful enough to grant them His own mercy that He needs to have help?

If Jesus had to leave in order for the holy spirit to arrive, why the heck was John the Baptist baptizing in the name of the holy spirit while Jesus was still alive?

Why would Jesus, who is God according to the trinity, have to beg God to let this chalice pass him by? Isn't that like begging himself? And why did God not answer his prayer? And if he was to be the sacraficial lamb because God is not poweful enough to forgive people on his own accord, why did he try to hide in the garden of Gethsemane? Why not just walk right up to them since this was his main purpose for being?

Just askin'

I know the anwer to all these questions, they have been asked of me many, many times. Why do you want to know these things?

Are you a sincere seeker of the truth of God and do you want to know Him? Or are you asking me for the same reason that they asked Jesus the same kinds of questions, just to trap Him?

I don't mind answering questions from honest motives, but very often these same questions have been asked for the sole purpose of more argument. I could be wrong, but It seems that is the purpose of these questions from you...by the way that you framed them and by the quick manner of each question, it seems like your just want an argument.

So what is your TRUE motive for asking?

Rob

[doodlebug 3]

Are you 100% sure that politics didn't play a hand at the Council of Nicea when they were deciding which books can and cannot go into the bible?

How well did Matthew Mark Luke and John know Jesus? Did any of them ever meet him in person?

Why did an all powerful God need to send anyone to save his people. Is he not powerful enough to grant them His own mercy that He needs to have help?

If Jesus had to leave in order for the holy spirit to arrive, why the heck was John the Baptist baptizing in the name of the holy spirit while Jesus was still alive?

Why would Jesus, who is God according to the trinity, have to beg God to let this chalice pass him by? Isn't that like begging himself? And why did God not answer his prayer? And if he was to be the sacraficial lamb because God is not poweful enough to forgive people on his own accord, why did he try to hide in the garden of Gethsemane? Why not just walk right up to them since this was his main purpose for being?

Just askin'

I know the anwer to all these questions, they have been asked of me many, many times. Why do you want to know these things?

Are you a sincere seeker of the truth of God and do you want to know Him? Or are you asking me for the same reason that they asked Jesus the same kinds of questions, just to trap Him?

I don't mind answering questions from honest motives, but very often these same questions have been asked for the sole purpose of more argument. I could be wrong, but It seems that is the purpose of these questions from you...by the way that you framed them and by the quick manner of each question, it seems like your just want an argument.

So what is your TRUE motive for asking?

Rob

What is your TRUE motive for making all of these religious topics on this forum?

Hate to burst the ole bubble but no one asked Jesus about the politics involved in the council of Nicea. That happened after his ascension into heaven.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Everyone is saved exacty the same way. The people alive on the earth before Jesus made His sacrificce on the Cross, knew from Gods Word about a coming Savior, if they believe that word from God, they were saved.

How did they know? From what exactly?

You are really not reading the former posts I already made on this subject are you?

Are you asking me these questions because you really want to know the answers so that you can know If you could put your faith in Jesus Christ? Or are you just asking so that you can argue with me. If that is the case then my further answers serve no useful pupose for you. It does give others a chance to see how hardened some people are to the Love of God, and they get to see how God really feels about them as I tell them of His love for them. But I dont really want to keep repeating the same answers over and over again...

Rob

I'm just a little perplexed that you keep making specific references to overwhelming historical evidence, when what it really comes down to is entirely about faith and is entirely unspecific and outside of "that book" is entirely unproven.

It seems to me you're accepting as fact certain political judgements made about classical (non-christian) civilisations by the early church - which purged the older religions by demonising them (hence the reason why Pan so closely resembles the classical image of the devil).

[Niels Bohr 72]

I'm my own God. I give myself my own heaven!

[Rob and Melinda 0]

Are you 100% sure that politics didn't play a hand at the Council of Nicea when they were deciding which books can and cannot go into the bible?

How well did Matthew Mark Luke and John know Jesus? Did any of them ever meet him in person?

Why did an all powerful God need to send anyone to save his people. Is he not powerful enough to grant them His own mercy that He needs to have help?

If Jesus had to leave in order for the holy spirit to arrive, why the heck was John the Baptist baptizing in the name of the holy spirit while Jesus was still alive?

Why would Jesus, who is God according to the trinity, have to beg God to let this chalice pass him by? Isn't that like begging himself? And why did God not answer his prayer? And if he was to be the sacraficial lamb because God is not poweful enough to forgive people on his own accord, why did he try to hide in the garden of Gethsemane? Why not just walk right up to them since this was his main purpose for being?

Just askin'

I know the anwer to all these questions, they have been asked of me many, many times. Why do you want to know these things?

Are you a sincere seeker of the truth of God and do you want to know Him? Or are you asking me for the same reason that they asked Jesus the same kinds of questions, just to trap Him?

I don't mind answering questions from honest motives, but very often these same questions have been asked for the sole purpose of more argument. I could be wrong, but It seems that is the purpose of these questions from you...by the way that you framed them and by the quick manner of each question, it seems like your just want an argument.

So what is your TRUE motive for asking?

Rob

What is your TRUE motive for making all of these religious topics on this forum?

Hate to burst the ole bubble but no one asked Jesus about the politics involved in the council of Nicea. That happened after his ascension into heaven.

That is just as I thought then. You don't REALLY want to know the anwers do you?

Your looking to pick a fight. Sorry, not interested.

Those questions you asked are so basic and have such simple answers, too bad you never took the time to look at it seriously for yourself. Could be wrong, but I suspect you hold those possitions because someone else taught you that. Did you learned that from Religious course in College?

Rob

[Mags 112]

I have nothing against the average Christian who doesn't proselytize. I can think of many on VJ whom I like a huge amount and respect their views. But, and I'm going to be brutally honest here, if heaven is full of Christians like Rob then I don't want to go there anyway. Simple. If it means I have to listen to this ####### over and over again for eternity then I'll GLADLY go to hell. See ya...

[Jenn! 918]

Those questions you asked are so basic and have such simple answers, too bad you never took the time to look at it seriously for yourself. Could be wrong, but I suspect you hold those possitions because someone else taught you that. Did you learned that from Religious course in College?

Rob, you really need to work on your people skills. You've claimed several times to not be trying to offend or sound arrogant or condescending.

Frankly, I'm just not buying it anymore.

[Nessa 23]

Answered. No comments needed.

[Rob and Melinda 0]

Everyone is saved exacty the same way. The people alive on the earth before Jesus made His sacrificce on the Cross, knew from Gods Word about a coming Savior, if they believe that word from God, they were saved.

How did they know? From what exactly?

You are really not reading the former posts I already made on this subject are you?

Are you asking me these questions because you really want to know the answers so that you can know If you could put your faith in Jesus Christ? Or are you just asking so that you can argue with me. If that is the case then my further answers serve no useful pupose for you. It does give others a chance to see how hardened some people are to the Love of God, and they get to see how God really feels about them as I tell them of His love for them. But I dont really want to keep repeating the same answers over and over again...

Rob

I'm just a little perplexed that you keep making specific references to overwhelming historical evidence, when what it really comes down to is entirely about faith and is entirely unspecific and outside of "that book" is entirely unproven.

It seems to me you're accepting as fact certain political judgements made about classical (non-christian) civilisations by the early church - which purged the older religions by demonising them (hence the reason why Pan so closely resembles the classical image of the devil).

Not true at all. The Christian faith as you put it, is based upon Historical fact, eyewitness testimony, Science, Astronomy, Mathematics, Logic and Revealed prophecy, just to mention a few.

I would recomend a few books to you, Creator Beyond time and space, God and the Cosmos, and any of Chuck Misslers books on the authenticity of the Bible.

If you are REALLY intrested I will give you scientific and other basis for "Faith" in Jesus Christ...

Rob

[rebeccajo 14]

Unreal. How many more of these can we start?

Here's one I've always wanted to know the answer to. Say you live in a part of the world where Christianity is completely unavailable to you. At no point in your lifetime did you hear the story of Christ. You lived a normal life for your culture. You were a 'good' person who treated others well and you committed no atrocities in your lifetime. When you die, are you barred from heaven? Are you eternally damned? Will you rot in flames simply because you never had the opportunity to learn the story of salvation?

That's a great question...

A person's judgment is based upon what they know about what God requires.

Romans chapter one says this:

Romans 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Romans 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful

Every human being is "hardwired" by their creator with a knowledge of Him. He places this knowledge "In them", Romans 1:19 says. God has "Shown it to them", then the next verse shows how God has showed it to them..."Through the things that are made", Creation is the testimony, the proof that God exists, and every human being knows this, God says. The next verse says that we know that God exists throught the things He created, but not all people will acknowledge this or will even be thankful to Him for what He has done.

We make up all kinnds of excuses for why we "Say" we don't believe God exists, the most popular un spoken reason is that people just love their sin more that they love God, so they will not turn from it to God so that they can be saved. That is what THE BIBLE SAYS, not me so don't get mad at me.

So, that person in the Deepest, Darkest part of the world that has never heard about Jesus Christ is still accountable to God for what they do know, that God does exist, because He hardwired them with this knowledge of Himself. And on that day that this person stands befofe God and says "But I didnt't know", The Lord will show them this part that He placed inside them where they knew that He existed, but chose to ignore or deny that He does exist.

When a person who has not ever heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ responds to the inner knowledge of God and searches for the true and living God, He responds by giving them more knowledge of Himself.

There have been documented cases where missionaries have gone into these dark isolated parts of the world. They took years to learn the language, then translated the Bible into that language for those people. In one particular case where the head of one of those tribes or people was told about Jesus Christ, the leader of that tribe said "Oh we already know about Him, we just didn't know His name was Jesus. We have been worshipping and serving Him for a long time."

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves

This verse means that people, Gentiles who have no knowledge of God's law, instinctively follow and seek after God, then they become a law unto themselves. That is, the fact that all men know God, and have this knowledge built into them when they are made, is seen by those who know and follow God even though they never had a Bible or have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But you know what God requires now, so you are accountable for what you do with that knowledge.

Rob

Ok.

If that is the case, if a man by nature does the things in the law, and serves and worships his entire life, but just happens to call God by another name, does that condemn him?

Because I thought that's what you have been telling us. Yet what you just posted refutes it.

No, you wern't paying attention. Go back and read all the posts about this subject, I made that very clear.

This confirms what I have already said.

Rob

No. You weren't paying attention.

If man is hardwired to 'know' God, what difference does it make what name you call him by?

Because, He wants to be acknowledged by His name, not some name you made up.

God is a generic name, His name is Yahweh, I AM, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Eternal God, the Creator of all. Buddah, Mohamed, and all the others are not the ONE eternal God.

If I called on you but didn't use your name, would you necessarily answer me?

The God of the Bible knows when someone is calling on Him or one of the other false gods. He is not dumb. He can tell the difference between the seeking of the gods of the romans, greeks or other pagan societies and the One True God.

Rob

Sounds good to me then.

He will know who is calling to him. You won't know - I won't know. We don't make that judgment. No matter how empowered we feel by reading and researching.

He makes the judgment. He and he alone.

Personally I'm thinking he's a pretty fair and wise ruler and will be able to discern without a load of righteous justification from any of us.

[Alex+R 0]

Rob is a classic "bad witness." I'm sure you have turned many more people off of Christianity in your lifetime than you have converted. I certainly feel reminded of the aspects of Christianity I don't like pretty much whenever you post.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Everyone is saved exacty the same way. The people alive on the earth before Jesus made His sacrificce on the Cross, knew from Gods Word about a coming Savior, if they believe that word from God, they were saved.

How did they know? From what exactly?

You are really not reading the former posts I already made on this subject are you?

Are you asking me these questions because you really want to know the answers so that you can know If you could put your faith in Jesus Christ? Or are you just asking so that you can argue with me. If that is the case then my further answers serve no useful pupose for you. It does give others a chance to see how hardened some people are to the Love of God, and they get to see how God really feels about them as I tell them of His love for them. But I dont really want to keep repeating the same answers over and over again...

Rob

I'm just a little perplexed that you keep making specific references to overwhelming historical evidence, when what it really comes down to is entirely about faith and is entirely unspecific and outside of "that book" is entirely unproven.

It seems to me you're accepting as fact certain political judgements made about classical (non-christian) civilisations by the early church - which purged the older religions by demonising them (hence the reason why Pan so closely resembles the classical image of the devil).

Not true at all. The Christian faith as you put it, is based upon Historical fact, eyewitness testimony, Science, Astronomy, Mathematics, Logic and Revealed prophecy, just to mention a few.

I would recomend a few books to you, Creator Beyond time and space, God and the Cosmos, and any of Chuck Misslers books on the authenticity of the Bible.

If you are REALLY intrested I will give you scientific and other basis for "Faith" in Jesus Christ...

Rob

I don't doubt the bible has historical significance - but when people start introducing political discourses like creationism and intelligent design into the mix, then I tune out. I don't need mumbo-jumbo to understand symbolism and metaphor.

[mybackpages 0]

Not true at all. The Christian faith as you put it, is based upon Historical fact, eyewitness testimony, Science, Astronomy, Mathematics, Logic and Revealed prophecy, just to mention a few.

I would recomend a few books to you, Creator Beyond time and space, God and the Cosmos, and any of Chuck Misslers books on the authenticity of the Bible.

If you are REALLY intrested I will give you scientific and other basis for "Faith" in Jesus Christ...

Rob

All subject to human fallabilty. The best we can do is educate ourselves (which you seem seriously opposed to if any views disagree with your POV) and hope we get it right.

[Rob and Melinda 0]

I have nothing against the average Christian who doesn't proselytize. I can think of many on VJ whom I like a huge amount and respect their views. But, and I'm going to be brutally honest here, if heaven is full of Christians like Rob then I don't want to go there anyway. Simple. If it means I have to listen to this ####### over and over again for eternity then I'll GLADLY go to hell. See ya...

You won't miss heaven because of Rob, you will miss it because you missed Jesus.

I have nothing to do with you making it or missing heaven, it all depends on what you do with Jesus Christ.

And why in the world would you want to go to heaven anyway since that is the home of the God you don't seem to believe?

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

I didn't go after you, you came to me...

Rob

Edited March 26, 2007 by Rob and Melinda