Massive price increases in EpiPen raise alarms

[lostinblue 1,989]

True, and the point was that even without a liability issue, the same drug made in the US costs more than twice as much when purchased in the US than when purchased overseas and sent back to the consumer. The same applies to human meds too.

Legal Protection adds to Drug Costs

Moreover, there's the fact that American litigiousness increases drug costs. A 1996 white paper entitled "Product Liability and Prescription Drug Prices in Canada and the U.S." quotes a 1992 study that found that 121 of 200 commonly prescribed meds were a median of 43% higher in the U.S. than in Canada at the time.

However, the authors determined that one-third to one-half o the differential was due to the higher cost of legal protection from suits in America.

Canadian courts limit compensation to 250,000 Canadian dollars, and judges are not prone to hand out large liability settlements.

In fact, of the original sample, 26 drugs cost over 100% more in the U.S.; however, claimed the researchers, removing liability would lower that rate to 45%.

http://www.drugsdb.com/blog/why-drugs-are-cheaper-in-canada-than-in-the-us.html

Source: Why Drugs Are Cheaper In Canada Than In The US - Drugsdb.com http://www.drugsdb.com/blog/why-drugs-are-cheaper-in-canada-than-in-the-us.html#ixzz4IXmgAzPK

[Rob L 3,811]

Legal Protection adds to Drug Costs

Moreover, there's the fact that American litigiousness increases drug costs. A 1996 white paper entitled "Product Liability and Prescription Drug Prices in Canada and the U.S." quotes a 1992 study that found that 121 of 200 commonly prescribed meds were a median of 43% higher in the U.S. than in Canada at the time.

However, the authors determined that one-third to one-half o the differential was due to the higher cost of legal protection from suits in America.

Canadian courts limit compensation to 250,000 Canadian dollars, and judges are not prone to hand out large liability settlements.

In fact, of the original sample, 26 drugs cost over 100% more in the U.S.; however, claimed the researchers, removing liability would lower that rate to 45%.

http://www.drugsdb.com/blog/why-drugs-are-cheaper-in-canada-than-in-the-us.html

Source: Why Drugs Are Cheaper In Canada Than In The US - Drugsdb.com http://www.drugsdb.com/blog/why-drugs-are-cheaper-in-canada-than-in-the-us.html#ixzz4IXmgAzPK

Do you have a study more recent, say in this century, that will tell us how much litigation adds to the cost of us drugs? The study cited was from 1993

[Rob L 3,811]

And in the US it even goes beyond human medications. I have a dog that gets monthly meds for fleas, ticks, and heartworms. Not terribly expensive, but a monthly expense at any rate. Did some online searching and found that I could purchase the exact same meds (with a different trade name) from Australia for a lot less. I bought a years supply and have been using it. Interesting to note that this medication is made by Eli Lilly in the USA. How can it be that this med can be made in the US, shipped to Australia, then sold and shipped to me back in the US and still be cheaper?

The vet asked me about what we were using and I told him. A few weeks later I got a call. The drug rep wanted to talk to me because the medication we were using (SAME EXACT MED) was "not approved for use in the US". I laughed and wanted to know if Eli Lilly was making an inferior product and sending it to our friends in Australia for use there. I did not get an answer.

My dog is doing fine by the way.

What we need is a list of Australian pet medicines that we can import and use on people. Problem solved, you are welcome.

[Póg mo 1,749]

http://www.ibtimes.com/why-are-prescription-drugs-so-expensive-big-pharma-points-cost-research-development-1928263

[yuna628 9,758]

And in the US it even goes beyond human medications. I have a dog that gets monthly meds for fleas, ticks, and heartworms. Not terribly expensive, but a monthly expense at any rate. Did some online searching and found that I could purchase the exact same meds (with a different trade name) from Australia for a lot less. I bought a years supply and have been using it. Interesting to note that this medication is made by Eli Lilly in the USA. How can it be that this med can be made in the US, shipped to Australia, then sold and shipped to me back in the US and still be cheaper?

The vet asked me about what we were using and I told him. A few weeks later I got a call. The drug rep wanted to talk to me because the medication we were using (SAME EXACT MED) was "not approved for use in the US". I laughed and wanted to know if Eli Lilly was making an inferior product and sending it to our friends in Australia for use there. I did not get an answer.

My dog is doing fine by the way.

My old dog passed away about four months ago. In his very short-lived 8 year life, he was provided around the clock care with medications that kept him comfortable and going. We got him from the SPCA as a pup, they told us he was healthy (I called BS on this within hours of him being home).. and it turns out that shelter got closed because of horrible abuse and other practices. They never told us where they got him from, but our vet team believed, based on his numerous medical problems, he was a puppy mill dog. You have never seen a dog that was more joyous with a will to live life though even as sick as he could be sometimes. I can't even begin to calculate the number we all spent on his care (and as you know pet insurance won't cover genetic or pre-existing conditions). So he had several serious problems - a genetic disease involving his liver and organs around the liver/stomach, several tick-borne-diseases, undeveloped male bits, and Addisons disease. Addisons can be hard to diagnose so it was a mystery illness that led to other problems for a while. At any rate, all of it required a daily regime of pills and then later on, injections. The great majority of the pills were actually not much different than what you could find for a human (just repacked and marketed for vet use). Most people going to a vet today will complain of the very high cost of medication. That's very true. There is an overhead, and vets will jack the price up to offset their practice and liability insurance. The genetic condition involving the liver is quite a hard one to manage, and I'm a member of an organization founded to help pet-owners with info and affordable ways to treat it (not every country has these life-saving drugs either!). If you buy a drug directly from your vet it will cost far more than purchasing it OTC or at your local human pharmacy. And it can be a hard fight arguing with your vet to get an RX written to be taken to where it is most affordable, but if you do it you'll find the costs pretty manageable. Not every drug works that way of course, some are special vet formulas but for the most part, the same drugs a dog takes are the same drugs a human takes.

I have dealt with Eli Lily before. They produced both a life-saving drug for the dog and an injectable my father takes (neither one is affordable). The problem with obtaining drugs from places like Canada, will be a great deal in part with the FDA. The two most common drugs for pets obtained cheaper overseas will be NSAIDs (like Rimadyl [Celebrex in human form]) and heartworm preventatives. The FDA will claim that some of these companies may be selling you defective, untested, and falsified products, which has happened in many instances. It may say Eli Lily, but where is it actually coming from? Who oversees the plants where it is made? There was a problem with a particular medication he took on at least two occasions. A plant that made both human and vet pharma. It resulted in quite a few pets dying and humans getting sick. The plants were forced to shut and it led to a shortage, which drove up costs.

We claim to have high standards than other countries, but sometimes I just don't find that to be the case. Ongoing potential risky trade deals with Europe like TTIP will actually be forcing overseas companies to lower their standards to fit in line with the US, whether it be for food or medication. Pharma is sneaky though. The standard treatment for Addisons is much the same in humans and animals. They take the same medications. Usually an injectable + daily steroid. For both there are two types of injectables. One you have to fuss about with and may not work for every pet, and one that's fairly monthly depending on how well the pet responds. Pet owners in support groups for the disease started noticing sometimes new vials coming in weren't working as well as they should compared to last injection, and they wondered why. Turns out the big pharma company in the US was making bad batches. The medication was being 'thinned' out because of bad practices and low supply. It wasn't until there was a lot of outrage did they pull the vials, and also created a shortage.. which left owners desperate for the drugs they needed to keep the pet stable every month. Some turned to overseas pharma, feeling the risk was worth it. Then, all the sudden they announced a NEW drug out on the market. Without even knowing how pets who were on their old perfectly fine medication long-term were going to do, they started pushing the new drug heavily and saying they had limited supply of the old drug. It was cheaper for them to make but may not help the pet as well. Eventually in some areas in Europe it caused a major shortage and skyrocketing prices!

There have been problems with 'alternative' heartguard and flea/tick products sold OTC at discount chains that are made cheaper overseas and sold in the US without proper oversight and QA/QC. Some vets have no problem with giving prescription authorizations to pet-med pharmas that are reputable, but do have very grave concerns when it comes to online Canadian pharmacies that may be technically illegal and have ongoing lawsuits against them. They don't want to be held liable for damage or death to the pet because of an RX they wrote. They can't guarantee where the supply comes from or it's authenticity. That being said Eli Lily (and their protectors at the AVMA) has an amazing track record of also killing pets with their 'heartworm' medications. Trifexis (sold under numerous other names) being the big one I would never recommend. The combination chemical agents are actually high toxic chemicals outsourced from countries you know probably don't have the highest standards of safety for anything. It's resulted in numerous critical illnesses, injury, failure to work, and ultimately death. Our vet had even seen this issue arising in some of the newly pushed routine vaccines. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/investigations/2014/12/13/pets-at-risk-how-safe-are-your-pets-medicines/20247443/

And yes, like you I have never been able to get a straight answer from a drug company why something approved for use in another country but not the US, that is entirely and supposedly consistently the same formula is somehow bad. I know there are problems with shady companies, but there is also clearly production problems and unethical behavior going on at approved big pharma in the US too.

products for your dog are not exposed to the massive liability situation as human drugs ... Liability lawyers drive up the cost for everything.

They are. Not on a multi-billion dollar scale and threat of lawsuit though.. because the system has shady strongarm ways of protecting bad people doing bad things, and why? Because it's still shamefully not as regulated as I'd like. Pets are still dying every single day due to faulty drugs and bad food. If I'm bleeding money to help better the life of my pet, and am being directly screwed by big pharma rather than by big insurance and big pharma combined, I'd like to know what I'm actually giving them is safe and why overseas is supposedly not as safe (when they make most of the stuff overseas or outsource with sometimes little oversight to begin with).

What we need is a list of Australian pet medicines that we can import and use on people. Problem solved, you are welcome.

Will there be a bonus side effect, such as barking and spinning in a circle for the human population? ;-)

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

products for your dog are not exposed to the massive liability situation as human drugs ... Liability lawyers drive up the cost for everything.

A link would be nice. Not that I don't believe, but the above, without supporting evidence, is really just conjecture.

Are you serious, Póg mo?? It's pretty clear, at least here in America, that what LIB is saying is true. In a huge way. We see it every single day, from the lady who took money from McDonald's because her coffee burned her hoo-hoo to people who try to sue companies because Preparation H is some of the worst tasting toothpaste around. Let someone walk across your lawn and get hurt, and you not have proper insurance to cover it, and see how a liability lawyer functions.

[Póg mo 1,749]

Are you serious, Póg mo?? It's pretty clear, at least here in America, that what LIB is saying is true. In a huge way. We see it every single day, from the lady who took money from McDonald's because her coffee burned her hoo-hoo to people who try to sue companies because Preparation H is some of the worst tasting toothpaste around. Let someone walk across your lawn and get hurt, and you not have proper insurance to cover it, and see how a liability lawyer functions.

Yes I am serious. As they say, plural of anecdote is not data. Anyway, I posted a link above that examines why drugs are more expensive in the US, than the rest of the world. You should click on it. Who knows. You may even learn something.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

There are several reasons for that phenomenon, and I am familiar with a few of them. I try to do my part to lower it by finding alternative sources for my medical needs and paying for them myself, instead of using insurance, which always over bills for everything. It's a tiny part, but it makes me feel better for doing so, especially when sometimes, I actually save money personally by doing it, and for sure cut out a lot of the fraud in between.

Stil, what LIB said is true, anyone who has lived in the US for more than a few years should be able to recognize this.

I learn something each and every day, thanks. But as a suggestion, when you post something, you are likely to get more people to actually read it if you at least provide a summary of what the link is about. IDK about everyone here, but I rarely click on a posted link unless the poster (or someone else) gives me a reason to.

Yes I am serious. As they say, plural of anecdote is not data. Anyway, I posted a link above that examines why drugs are more expensive in the US, than the rest of the world. You should click on it. Who knows. You may even learn something.

Edited August 27, 2016 by ROYGBP

[Póg mo 1,749]

There are several reasons for that phenomenon, and I am familiar with a few of them. I try to do my part to lower it by finding alternative sources for my medical needs and paying for them myself, instead of using insurance, which always over bills for everything. It's a tiny part, but it makes me feel better for doing so, especially when sometimes, I actually save money personally by doing it, and for sure cut out a lot of the fraud in between.

Stil, what LIB said is true, anyone who has lived in the US for more than a few years should be able to recognize this.

I never said that law suits weren't part of the problem, but believe that their impact on the final price of medications is over stated somewhat.

[Neonred 3,714]

I never said that law suits weren't part of the problem, but believe that their impact on the final price of medications is over stated somewhat.

I think you are correct. A lot of factors add to the price, but it seems the greatest factor is what the drug maker thinks is the absolute maximum they can charge. Gives them room to give discounts and coupons that makes them look like they are helping out the unfortunate patient, all the time still making huge profits.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

And in the US it even goes beyond human medications. I have a dog that gets monthly meds for fleas, ticks, and heartworms. Not terribly expensive, but a monthly expense at any rate. Did some online searching and found that I could purchase the exact same meds (with a different trade name) from Australia for a lot less. I bought a years supply and have been using it. Interesting to note that this medication is made by Eli Lilly in the USA. How can it be that this med can be made in the US, shipped to Australia, then sold and shipped to me back in the US and still be cheaper?

The vet asked me about what we were using and I told him. A few weeks later I got a call. The drug rep wanted to talk to me because the medication we were using (SAME EXACT MED) was "not approved for use in the US". I laughed and wanted to know if Eli Lilly was making an inferior product and sending it to our friends in Australia for use there. I did not get an answer.

My dog is doing fine by the way.

Victoza is about 720 or so in the us About 280 or so in the Philippines. Same manufacturer.

[Neonred 3,714]

Victoza is about 720 or so in the us About 280 or so in the Philippines. Same manufacturer.

Americans are rich and therefore need to pay more.

[Póg mo 1,749]

I think you are correct. A lot of factors add to the price, but it seems the greatest factor is what the drug maker thinks is the absolute maximum they can charge. Gives them room to give discounts and coupons that makes them look like they are helping out the unfortunate patient, all the time still making huge profits.

Insurance companies can bargain for better prices, but the law specifically forbids Medicare from bargaining, despite the fortune the government pumps into medical research, and tax breaks.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Insurance companies can bargain for better prices, but the law specifically forbids Medicare from bargaining, despite the fortune the government pumps into medical research, and tax breaks.

And negotiating contracts is one of Trump's platforms.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

And negotiating contracts is one of Trump's platforms.

Rump certainly knows about litigation and filing for bankruptcy protection procedures. I'll give him that much credit.

Edited August 28, 2016 by ready4ONE