NASA monitors the 'new normal' of sea ice

[John Miller 761]

Now I'm not so sure about the wall, maybe some of the co2 should stay. But if the co2 should leave and then come back, we would let that co2 stay.

Maybe we deport the CO2 and once it rids itself of the C - preferrably back into the ground to make coal, it can come back as O2.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Maybe we deport the CO2 and once it rids itself of the C - preferrably back into the ground to make coal, it can come back as O2.

And we will make the atmosphere pay for it!

[John Miller 761]

And we will make the atmosphere pay for it!

Naturally.

[Dakine10 5,452]

But the reality is... Climate changes. It changed before man was on earth. For all we know, we are 10, or 30, or 300 or 300,000 miles closer to the sun this century than we were last century. There is so much we don't know about the universe, and it is SO MUCH larger than all of us put together. It's getting warmer. It will get colder. When? Who knows? Our little troposphere is such a finite, minuscule entity when compared to the rest of the cosmos.

The result of all that is that 99% of species that ever existed are now extinct. That's all part of the nature of existence too. The unique aspect of human beings is that we are the first species on earth that has the ability to purposefully alter the climate and environment and also, to realize the effects of and adapt to that change.

Humans evolved, in part, because climate changed in a way that favored our evolution. Eventually, climate will also change in ways that are not conducive to human existence. Regardless of where the stimuli for that change comes from, it would be foolish, and somewhat selfish, to continue down that road into the brick wall when we have it within us to find ways around it.

[Rob L 3,811]

Now I'm not so sure about the wall, maybe some of the co2 should stay. But if the co2 should leave and then come back, we would let that co2 stay.

NASA can bottle up the co2 and export it by rocket...No ,wait, they wasted all of their funds trying to gather the data that shows how far down the toilet we have put the environment and measuring the planets

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I don't want to know. It doesn't matter. And I doubt we can accurately measure it (hence all the numbers I threw out there), but it stands to reason that it is one possible reason for temperature changes. It probably has more of an effect than all the humans on planet earth.

As do the volcanoes mentioned above. Wasn't it just a couple or so years ago that 5 volcanoes erupted in one country, spewing more pollution in one month than all the rest of earth in one year (or some such astronomical number, I cannot remember for sure; just know it was a LOT).

Your first reply blasted NASA for wasting our money...now you want to know about the orbit of the earth....make up your mind

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

No, I tamped those volcanoes with ice cubes so the pollution was minimal.

[Rob L 3,811]

I don't want to know. It doesn't matter. And I doubt we can accurately measure it (hence all the numbers I threw out there), but it stands to reason that it is one possible reason for temperature changes. It probably has more of an effect than all the humans on planet earth.

As do the volcanoes mentioned above. Wasn't it just a couple or so years ago that 5 volcanoes erupted in one country, spewing more pollution in one month than all the rest of earth in one year (or some such astronomical number, I cannot remember for sure; just know it was a LOT).

I don't want to know. It doesn't matter. And I doubt we can accurately measure it (hence all the numbers I threw out there), but it stands to reason that it is one possible reason for temperature changes. It probably has more of an effect than all the humans on planet earth.

Okay you don't want to know accurate data about the physical universe, I think it is one of the most important things we can do on this planet. It does matter. We are just going to have to disagree on that one.

As do the volcanoes mentioned above. Wasn't it just a couple or so years ago that 5 volcanoes erupted in one country, spewing more pollution in one month than all the rest of earth in one year (or some such astronomical number, I cannot remember for sure; just know it was a LOT).

maybe more particulate pollution but not more CO 2

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ok, so it matters to you. Can we discuss how much? As in, have you quit driving vehicles? Stopped using a gas mower to mow your lawn? I mean, what are you doing to lower our carbon footprint? Talking and generating ideas is a good start, but neither of those will reduce co2, amirite?

Note: this is not an attack on you. I don't think very many people on earth are willing to give up the status quo just to reduce c02.

Edited August 27, 2016 by ROYGBP

[Dashinka 24,634]

Ok, so it matters to you. Can we discuss how much? As in, have you quit driving vehicles? Stopped using a gas mower to mow your lawn? I mean, what are you doing to lower our carbon footprint? Talking and generating ideas is a good start, but neither of those will reduce co2, amirite?

Note: this is not an attack on you. I don't think very many people on earth are willing to give up the status quo just to reduce c02.

Personally, I am following the same example of Leonardo D., and Al Gore.

[Póg mo 1,749]

Personally, I am following the same example of Leonardo D., and Al Gore.

Exactly, thank you both for illustrating why we need government involvement in helping to find a solution, otherwise somebody will always whine that someone else is not really serious about it. Thanks again.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Not sure what you mean about the example of Al Gore, exactly. Unless you think he's a hero because he has been proven wrong on so many of his predictions from "An Inconvenient Truth" 10 years ago?

http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/20/10-years-later-al-gore-says-his-film-underestimated-global-warming/

Arctic ice masses are decreasing, while Antarctic ice masses are increasing in size. Things are changing. But is it the end of the world as we know it? I guess we won't know (for certain) for another hundred years or so. It sure seemed like "The end of the world as we know it" back in the 1930s, when record heat and drought hit the world: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/the-heat-waves-of-the-1930s/

And before anyone wants to go on record talking about how we all need to pay attention to the "experts" who tell us about the global warming phenomenon, bear in mind that there is no clear consensus among such "scientific experts". Also, consider how much your local meteorologist gets paid, and how often he/she is wrong about the weather tomorrow, let alone 20 years from now.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/18888-embarrassing-predictions-haunt-the-global-warming-industry

Personally, I am following the same example of Leonardo D., and Al Gore.

Edited August 27, 2016 by ROYGBP

[Rob L 3,811]

Ok, so it matters to you. Can we discuss how much? As in, have you quit driving vehicles? Stopped using a gas mower to mow your lawn? I mean, what are you doing to lower our carbon footprint? Talking and generating ideas is a good start, but neither of those will reduce co2, amirite?

Note: this is not an attack on you. I don't think very many people on earth are willing to give up the status quo just to reduce c02.

This is the best question of the week;

policy and regulations

I think that our personal actions are important , but our views on policy, regulations, taxes and treaties should drive our discussions with the folks we vote for and drive our national debate (to me CEHEST is part of the National debate.)

'the us needs to lead and not follow on international treaties

'the BC carbon tax (revenue neutral) is proving successful. One of the best places for business in the world. Oregon and Washington are looking at this model.

*Smart energy requires a smart grid. The US is heavily vested in the Utility Monopoly model where the Utility decides what you will pay and where it will be available. Germany is

way ahead with a smart grid that allows the consumer to decide when and where to buy and sell our power. In 10 years you will have a power plant in your garage (solar, wind, excess from your Tesla

) if you are efficient, you should be able to sell your surplus just when everyone is coming home to make dinner. the current FERC model discourages this approach, we need congess to change the polcies and regs

-Get off coal (lets retool and retrain those workers) coal is dead

-clean and wean off oil

-move to natural gas...1/2 the carbon footprint

-eventaually kill fossil fuels and maybe biofuels...the technology is a ways off but coming

free market solutions

Tesla is paving the way with Transporation and now wants to put a personal power plant with solar panels on the roof...no longer a pipedream even in rainy seattle..competition and scale this new tech

*eliminate waste at work...I cannot belive how poorly commercial plants and offices are run from and energy standpoint. They are wasting shareholders money. There should be a standard energy use plan statement in every Shareholders statement.

*optimize travel...my company paid a man to come from Florida to Seattle last week to provide a class...for knowledge I had and could have given for just my time.

*Forest management: we cannot afford to loose any acreage to trees. We are running our businesses on models that are shrinking the forests.

Personal household:

The easy stuff :light bulbs...if you are still running incadescent bulbs, do your pocket book a favor and get some LED bulbs today. Best investment return ever.

Combine trips

Recycle

Smart Thermostats

Reduce the

amount of lawn and replace with nativenative shurbs and trees

The tougher stuff..

Reduce meat consumption...i love my steak but too much is killing me

Invest in new energy technology...this is still a work in progress for solar and cars..but more demand will help drive the market

Less air travel...this is hard for me, I love my travel.

[Boiler 45,727]

Population increase will more than wipe out those marginal savings.

My Grandfather was a coal miner, and he had a coal allocation as part of his wages, but there energy use was minimal otherwise.

Now, a very different world, the one thing I have noticed in my lifetime is the foods you eat, mainly local in the past, now from all over.

And driving a Prius eating Quinola?

Noboy wants to make the hard choices.

This is the best question of the week;


policy and regulations
I think that our personal actions are important , but our views on policy, regulations, taxes and treaties should drive our discussions with the folks we vote for and drive our national debate (to me CEHEST is part of the National debate.)

'the us needs to lead and not follow on international treaties
'the BC carbon tax (revenue neutral) is proving successful. One of the best places for business in the world. Oregon and Washington are looking at this model.
*Smart energy requires a smart grid. The US is heavily vested in the Utility Monopoly model where the Utility decides what you will pay and where it will be available. Germany is
way ahead with a smart grid that allows the consumer to decide when and where to buy and sell our power. In 10 years you will have a power plant in your garage (solar, wind, excess from your Tesla
) if you are efficient, you should be able to sell your surplus just when everyone is coming home to make dinner. the current FERC model discourages this approach, we need congess to change the polcies and regs
-Get off coal (lets retool and retrain those workers) coal is dead
-clean and wean off oil
-move to natural gas...1/2 the carbon footprint
-eventaually kill fossil fuels and maybe biofuels...the technology is a ways off but coming


free market solutions
Tesla is paving the way with Transporation and now wants to put a personal power plant with solar panels on the roof...no longer a pipedream even in rainy seattle..competition and scale this new tech
*eliminate waste at work...I cannot belive how poorly commercial plants and offices are run from and energy standpoint. They are wasting shareholders money. There should be a standard energy use plan statement in every Shareholders statement.
*optimize travel...my company paid a man to come from Florida to Seattle last week to provide a class...for knowledge I had and could have given for just my time.

*Forest management: we cannot afford to loose any acreage to trees. We are running our businesses on models that are shrinking the forests.

Personal household:
The easy stuff :light bulbs...if you are still running incadescent bulbs, do your pocket book a favor and get some LED bulbs today. Best investment return ever.
Combine trips
Recycle
Smart Thermostats
Reduce the
amount of lawn and replace with nativenative shurbs and trees

The tougher stuff..
Reduce meat consumption...i love my steak but too much is killing me
Invest in new energy technology...this is still a work in progress for solar and cars..but more demand will help drive the market
Less air travel...this is hard for me, I love my travel.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Boiler

[Rob L 3,811]

Population increase will more than wipe out those marginal savings.

My Grandfather was a coal miner, and he had a coal allocation as part of his wages, but there energy use was minimal otherwise.

Now, a very different world, the one thing I have noticed in my lifetime is the foods you eat, mainly local in the past, now from all over.

And driving a Prius eating Quinola?

Noboy wants to make the hard choices.

I didn't want to get that personal, but yes we need to consider fewer kids.

Maturing the economies in the developing world will bend but not fix the population curve.

This underscores the urgency of regional, federal and international regulations. Not to kill inovation and business, but to bring the right solutions to the market.

edit:

I dont think these changes are marginal...they are structural changes that will get us to a market driven tipping point where we are economically and ecologically self sufficient.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Rob L