Another Knightsbridge AOS RFIE for shots!

[gavw72 23]

Received my RFIE in the mail today……

• The Form I-693, Report of Medical Examination and Vaccination Record, that you submitted is incomplete. We need additional medical information to complete your case.

You must get a vaccination certification from a USCIS Civil Surgeon and submit this to us. The Vaccination certification was not completed when you had your medical done with your K-1 visa. No results were marked.

So when I sent my AOS documents in a copy of my DS3025 was included - all shots that were required were done at Knightsbridge, all the waiver boxes were checked but the "completed" check box at the bottom was not checked.

As they are asking for the vaccination certification I'm assuming that I really need to send them an I-693 with parts 1, 2, 4 & 7 completed as it asks for on the vaccination sheet of the I-693?

Anyone else experienced this specific RFIE?

Thanks……

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Well I would love the opportunity to fight it if it was me, but you can just go to a civil surgeon and do as you said.

The reference in the USCIS Policy Manual says when results are left blank, they should look and see if you had the shots.

​

F. Completion of the Results Section by the Civil Surgeon​

​

According to the Vaccination Component of the Technical Instructions, the civil surgeon should mark the appropriate results box at the bottom of the vaccination assessment chart. The Technical Instructions direct the civil surgeon to only check one appropriate box. ​

​

The officer should be aware that civil surgeons may improperly mark the boxes because they may misunderstand the meaning of these boxes. Therefore, the officer should determine, from the vaccination assessment completed by the civil surgeon, whether the applicant received all vaccines, which blanket waivers should be granted, and whether the applicant requires any ​other waivers. The officer should exercise discretion in reviewing the vaccination chart and when evaluating the results boxes at the bottom of the vaccination assessment chart. ​

​

If the civil surgeon did not check any result boxes, the officer should only return the form for corrective action if he or she is unable to ascertain whether the applicant is admissible. The officer should never alter or complete sections on the medical examination report that are the responsibility of the civil surgeon, such as the results boxes.​

Reference page: https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume8-PartB-Chapter9.html

They have a list of required shots so look at the shots people and see that he has them!!

It is so annoying that Knightsbridge won't mark complete.

​

[gavw72 23]

Well I would love the opportunity to fight it if it was me, but you can just go to a civil surgeon and do as you said.

The reference in the USCIS Policy Manual says when results are left blank, they should look and see if you had the shots.

​

F. Completion of the Results Section by the Civil Surgeon​

​

According to the Vaccination Component of the Technical Instructions, the civil surgeon should mark the appropriate results box at the bottom of the vaccination assessment chart. The Technical Instructions direct the civil surgeon to only check one appropriate box. ​

​

The officer should be aware that civil surgeons may improperly mark the boxes because they may misunderstand the meaning of these boxes. Therefore, the officer should determine, from the vaccination assessment completed by the civil surgeon, whether the applicant received all vaccines, which blanket waivers should be granted, and whether the applicant requires any ​other waivers. The officer should exercise discretion in reviewing the vaccination chart and when evaluating the results boxes at the bottom of the vaccination assessment chart. ​

​

If the civil surgeon did not check any result boxes, the officer should only return the form for corrective action if he or she is unable to ascertain whether the applicant is admissible. The officer should never alter or complete sections on the medical examination report that are the responsibility of the civil surgeon, such as the results boxes.​

Reference page: https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume8-PartB-Chapter9.html

They have a list of required shots so look at the shots people and see that he has them!!

It is so annoying that Knightsbridge won't mark complete.

​

I'd love to fight it but was under the impression that an RFIE is final and you just have to suck it up and give them what they ask for?

Having re-read the letter it may be that the DS3025 was lost or not sent from Knightsbridge as it says one wasn't completed?

I have fired a stinking complaint email to Knightsbridge though as I paid them for all the shots and had this scenario conversation with them at the time!!

Edited August 13, 2016 by gavw72

[yuna628 9,652]

Received my RFIE in the mail today……

• The Form I-693, Report of Medical Examination and Vaccination Record, that you submitted is incomplete. We need additional medical information to complete your case.

You must get a vaccination certification from a USCIS Civil Surgeon and submit this to us. The Vaccination certification was not completed when you had your medical done with your K-1 visa. No results were marked.

So when I sent my AOS documents in a copy of my DS3025 was included - all shots that were required were done at Knightsbridge, all the waiver boxes were checked but the "completed" check box at the bottom was not checked.

As they are asking for the vaccination certification I'm assuming that I really need to send them an I-693 with parts 1, 2, 4 & 7 completed as it asks for on the vaccination sheet of the I-693?

Anyone else experienced this specific RFIE?

Thanks……

Yep. That's what they want. Find a CS that will do just the vaccination sheet with the appropriate parts completed in the sealed envelope. We sent that along with a strongly worded letter with a copy of the I-693 instructions highlighted as it pertains to a K1 and the policy manual as described above. We complied with the request because we felt that arguing with them would be useless or that they could be snotty about the case. I'm sure some have successfully fought it, but it seems like this is a common issue going on with Knightsbridge and the USCIS now.

Yours is the first RFE I've seen that is directly pointing to the checkbox as the culprit for their ignorance in the matter (nice they admitted it now). At any rate, it would seem you have a waiver, so once you comply with the request, your green card should be on the way.

[simonschus 58]

I've not mentioned this before because I don't actually expect anybody will want to try it, though I have considered it in my own case if USCIS have a problem with the vaccination supplement not being completed correctly.

If you have paid Knightsbridge with a credit card in the UK, then you **might** be able to contact your credit card company for recourse. In particular, you could try to dispute the transaction under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act to get your money back from them. It is quite shaky ground as to whether you'd be successful or not because Knightsbridge could argue that they did everything that they were supposed to do for the K1 visa. However, there are counterarguments that could be made by citing relevant portions of the adjudicator manual and the technical instructions. Again, it is down to how strongly one presents the argument in writing to the arbitrator.

I've disputed transactions in this way before and it is a fairly simple process with the credit card company acting as the arbitrator (rather than the courts).

Simon.

Edited August 13, 2016 by simonschus

[Wooderz 314]

Sorry you've suffered the same fate as so many of us lately.

We did successfully fight the rfe through our congressman who I was already working with to inquire on the status of my case. In short, I told my congressman's case worker I was confused by the rfe because the vaccinations were complete on the ds3025. 2 days later USCIS rescinded the rfe and approved the green card. But our issue seemed to be specifically with the varicella history since USCIS stated in the rfe that we needed that one particular vaccine. So I told the congressman that the ds3025 had varicella history checked.

Anyway, talking to your congressman is a way to inquire and challenge USCIS with less risk than doing so in a response to the rfe. USCIS may not admit their mistake but at least you've made their error known. Then you can respond as yuna did and let them know again.

[gavw72 23]

Simon, I would for sure have done that!! However I paid cash at Knightsbridge but have emailed them to see if they want to explain their incompetence or their side of it anyway? I don't really want to rattle USCIS at this stage so won't ask them the same lol!

All points taken onboard - I've sent the details to my congressman and will see what happens. Have printed all the info that you guys have pitched in with and copied my vaccination sheet & RFIE? Like you say it may not do any good for me but it may educate my IO for the next person.

I got my EAD last week so at least I'm not waiting on that. I start work tomorrow at a hospital and the civil surgeons in the area are located at our sister hospital so that will hopefully make things easier? Plus any shots that were insufficient time have now been completed along with new TB tests.

I wonder if the "page 2 wording" that Knightsbridge have been adding recently will have any effect with USCIS?

Just for reference this was my DS3025……..

Edited August 14, 2016 by gavw72

[yuna628 9,652]

I don't know if there have been any recent persons successfully getting past AOS stage with the new 2nd page wording... only time will tell I guess. Knightsbridge won't be of help I'm afraid. IIRC, I sent hubby back in twice to argue with them about signing off on that checkbox and they wouldn't budge. He remembers another VJ member there that day also arguing the point, and getting nowhere with them.

They will insist they've done everything correctly, because ''a K1 doesn't need vaccinations to begin with because it's a non immigrant visa''. This overlooks the fact that it actually becomes an immigrant intent visa which allows you to AOS. So sure, you don't need the vax for the K1 is true, but you need it for AOS... and Knightsbridge doesn't give a care about that..

[simonschus 58]

I agree entirely that would be their counterargument though, as I'll outline in full view, I think that counterargument has a number some logical fallacies that wouldn't stand up if tested.

I wouldn't expect Knightsbridge to respond positively or in anybody's favour without third-party arbitration- they simply have no need. My suggestion of disputing with the credit card company is to force them to go through a procedure to justify and have a third party arbitrate where one might have better luck.

There are a number of counterargument that could be made to them... which I can share in full view:

1) Knightsbridge provide documentation highlighting that the K1 medical can be used for adjustment. Reasonable assumption that is what you're getting because you get that before you pay. This highlights that the purpose of the medical can legitimately and knowingly extend beyond the K1 process into the AOS process.

2) people have highlighted the issue several times to them before. Reasonable opportunity for retraining or clarification on their part.

3) other countries mark the box. Reasonable assumption that the box can be ticked and therefore this is isolated to Knightsbridge, showing that the product being sold is not comparable to elsewhere.

4) the adjudicator and technical manuals highlight that this is a "misunderstanding" on the part of the person conducting the medical. Highlights product being sold is being sold with poor knowledge of a known, intended purpose for the form.

I think that it could be challenged via the credit card company by citing a poor quality produce due to misunderstanding and training issues despite customer feedback, and them then misrepresenting that the form they they provide can be used for adjustment prior to payment. The product simply isn't fit for the purpose.

I understand that a number of the counterarguments can be challenged and some are much weaker than others. The credit card company might even find in favour of Knightsbridge. However, it'd be a fight that I'd have through my credit card issuer under Section 75. The argument as a whole wouldn't fly face-to-face with Knightsbridge but that is exactly what the credit card route is there for; as a formal means to challenge such problems when there is stalemate and you don't want to resort to the small claims courts due to cost.

Equally, I don't envisage this is a route that many would take but it is definitely an option. If won, the decision wouldn't be binding on them to change their processes in our favour admittedly.

I also appreciate that this won't help the OP and so I won't push the suggestion any further here for now. I just get so frustrated at this experience when it comes up that it wouldn't be right if I hadn't suggested something that I think could *possibly* provide recourse.

Edited August 14, 2016 by simonschus

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Knightsbridge are actually following their Technical Instructions from the CDC that were revised when the forms were changed

http://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/exams/ti/panel/revised-department-state-medical-examination-forms.html

For section 2, which box should be checked for non-immigrant and refugee applicants?

Section 2 on the DS 2054 refers only to immigrant visa applicants. Non-immigrant and refugee applicants are exempt from vaccination requirements. Panel physicians should leave this section blank for non-immigrant or refugee applicants

That section 2 appears on the medical form you don't even get a copy of, but would be seen by any adjudicator as not complete before he ever got to,the vaccination worksheet. Form http://photos.state.gov/libraries/thailand/591452/iv/ds2054.pdf

And further down in the revisions about the vaccination worksheet

What box should be checked for an applicant who is not required to get vaccinations by a panel physician (such as Non-Immigrant Visa (NIV) and refugee applicants)?

In some cases, such applicants have the option of receiving vaccinations by a panel physician. However, they are not required to do so. In these cases, if an applicant is not vaccinated by the panel physician, he or she is not requesting exemption, but rather is simply choosing to receive them once he or she is in the United States. In this case, you should leave the DS 3025 blank. It may also be helpful to record that the applicant will be vaccinated in the US, but this is not required by CDC.

That seems a little in conflict with marking or not marking on the main medical form section 2 (above) because to me it is leaving the door open to mark it on the vaccination sheet unless the applicant says they are choosing to do their jabs in the US.

It is the CDC that needs to state that panel physicians can mark a K1 non-immigrant's form as meeting US requirements.

[simonschus 58]

I agree entirely with the second part and that is what I was referring to as the technical instructions (admittedly, and transparently, I was *totally* unaware of the wording for the first part you cited. I knew there were other pages for the medical report but not that they explicitly referenced vaccination requirements). That would make the case a little more difficult to successfully challenge through Section 75 unless one could guarantee it was the vaccination worksheet itself which led to the rejection... which isn't too farfetched, but I agree that it might be difficult to challenge. (personally I'd still try to do it but I'm that way inclined anyway when it comes to this sort of thing; as for others, I might not recommend it given the risk of being unsuccessful, i.e. just a waste of time and effort).

Edited August 14, 2016 by simonschus

[gavw72 23]

I got the expected response from Knighstbridge that they had complied with K1 non-immigrant policy which I agree with, apart from the issue with actually speaking to the nurse doing the shots who assured me it was all ok for AOS.

Anyway they included the full DS3025 (I was only given page 1 after the medical), page 2 was typed in a text box with "This K-non immigrant applicant did receive the required vaccines and the US vaccination requirements are complete for this applicant."

Wondering whether the IO has also not seen this?

[prenouveau 46]

We got a copy of the page 2..attached if anyone's interested..

I know Knightsbridge says they won't check it because it's "Immigrant" and K1 is non-immigrant, but doesnt CEAC also call K1 "immigrant" at that stage? I wish they could all come up with a standard...

[gavw72 23]

We got a copy of the page 2..attached if anyone's interested..

I know Knightsbridge says they won't check it because it's "Immigrant" and K1 is non-immigrant, but doesnt CEAC also call K1 "immigrant" at that stage? I wish they could all come up with a standard...

That is exactly the same page 2 as mine, so it seems like it's not something new that Knightsbridge are doing apart from giving the applicant a copy of page 2. I did my medical on 9th October last year.

[prenouveau 46]

That is exactly the same page 2 as mine, so it seems like it's not something new that Knightsbridge are doing apart from giving the applicant a copy of page 2. I did my medical on 9th October last year.

Ahh. I guess we can't chalk it up to it being a "new" thing then.

I saw a ds-3025 from Australia, they checked "complete" and then just wrote "K1" next to the box...wish Knightsbridge would do that and save people this headache.