Devasted

[diadromous mermaid 36]

thanks again everyone for your kind words. My case was investigated by ICE as well so i now know why it took so long.

I was basically denied for not having enough evidence of abuse. I did send my own statement, witness staements, protection orders which Ice say they couldn't find yet asked me to send in notarised copies of them of which they quoted the case numbers. So if I didn't send how come they had the case numbers????? I sent in some medical records highlighting parts that I was being verbally abused. councellor notes where my MIL hit me. One of my biggest problems is that they want a police statement stating about when my MIl hit me. I DID go to the police and made a complaint but when I went back there was no record of it-so what I am supposed to do?. I'm trying to track down the officer I spoke to but it's been 2 years since I spoke to him. I have also lost IM messages in which my ex spoke to me and harrased me.

What I do have and never submitted is an original signed letter from my ex saying that he mentally abused me because he was pyschotic and how he never told me that before we married. I don't know if it would help.

I just feel so down about the whole thing, especially as I know people who been approved just using their affadavits, a few witness statements and councelling notes.

Thanks for your PM Aussiewench- I really appreciated it.

Shona

Shona,

You have Ex Parte Orders of Protection issued by a judge?

Yes I do DM. Why did you put a question mark?-just curious

Today I manage to get some support from a lawyer from The Immigrant support assistance which is pro-bono. I have an an appointment to see her next week.

Shona

Shona,

I surmised that you would have included any Order from the Court with your Prima Facie declaration, but I also seem to recall you live in Michigan and the reason I queried the ex parte order is because these are issued without a hearing. Or was it a Personal Protection Order where your former spouse attended a hearing before a judge? I remember you moved, but were these orders entered while you were still married, and if so, if you don't mind sharing, what was the order for? Stalking, threatening? Were you still residing together at the time the order was issued and enforced?

It's my understanding that if it was an ex parte order of protection that the judge that reviewed the case would have had sufficient information from you to give him or her cause to be concerned for your personal safety and or professional security (if stalking were interfering with a job, for example) before issuing the order. If they are not convinced of either of the above, normally the applicant's request for a TRO or PPO is denied. Did the order lapse at some time?

Hi DM,

Yes as far as I am aware, my attorney at the time sent in the Ex Parte Personal Protection orders for both my ex and my ex MIL along with my I 360. Yes this was an EX Parte order and I was not asked to go to a court hearing. The orderd signed by the judge as I have it hear in front of me was signed on September 16th 2005 and was valid for 6 months until March 31st 2006. I don't understand why ICE said there were no PPO's when they investigated In January2006 becasue at that time there were active??????? I did not have to give any hard evidence just reasons why I felt the need of protection Ie my ex entering the house late at night, after he had already left . that he was pyschotic and would not take his medication, that he had threatened to harm me and my son, that he had threatened deportation. As for his mother the reasons were that she had threatened to kill me, attacked me and some other things.

It stated that the order was entered without a hearing and that both of then could not do the following:

A petition requested respondents to be prohibited from entry to the premises

Petitioner has requested an ex parte order which should be entere into without notice becasue irreparable injury, loss or damage will result from the delay required to give notice or notice itself will preceipitate adverse action before the order can be issued.

Respondent poses a credible threat to the physical safety of the petitioner and /or child of the petitioner

Petitioner and and respondent have a domestic relationship other than dating.

It is ordered xxxxxxxxxxxis prohibited from

a) Entering onto property where petitioner lives

C) assaulting , attacking, beatin , molesting or wounding XXXXXXXXX

E) Stalking as defined under MCL 750 which includes

confronting petitioner in a public place or on private property,

appearing at petitioners workplace or residence and contacting petitioner by telephone

Interfering with petitioners efforts to remove his / her children/personal property from premises solely owned / leased by repondent

Threatening to kill. or physically injure xxxxxxxxxx

It then states that this order is effective when signed, enforced immediately and remains in effect until 03/31/06

This is eactly the same for my ex spouse but also includes internet contact.

Both my ex MIL and Ex spouse filed a motion to terminate but their lawyer continued to get the court hearing adjourned. In my divorce decree he agreed to finally just let the PPO expire unless any new incidence happened. Thankfully I do have all the letters from his lawyer and the court adjourning any temination hearing. Strange that he did not insist that the PPO's shoould go to court.

I guess in a nutshell the PPO order did not laspe until 31/03/06 in which I did not continue it due to no new incidence occuring. I actually moved inn April to somewhere they didn't know. Having said that my MIL has tried to find out where I live via my car insurance company. Of he could not tell her but I have asked him to write a statement about her enquiry as to where I now reside. She has no reason to know where I live.

Just a question , do I have a right to obtain my own councelling records and those of my son? Apparently I have to go through a long procedure and they want to know why I want the records. I have to have them for immigration -it's vital. Can they refuse to give them to me ?????

Shona

sorry haven't spell checked !!!

These PPOs should be very strong evidence for your case. Especially ex parte orders. I didn't understand what you were saying about vacating them. Did your MIL and ex try to challenge the orders? All the same, one issue that can work against a PPO is if the claimant voluntarily chooses to cohabit after seeking the protection order. Did that happen?

As for the counselling records, you have every right to see them, in fact, I can't imagine how you or your lawyers, rather, could conscion sending in an I-360 without a copy of your psychological file. At the very least the I-360 should contian a sworn statement from your psychologist, detailing the treatment you have secured and how it relates to your ex and his family members abuse, and the urgency of your removing yourself rfom them and any prior marital living arrangements. It shouldn't be difficult to secure your records. Your son's I would imagine would be the same thing, since he is a minor and you his legal guardian. Get your attorney to request them. If necessary by order.

[Lovetoteach 53]

thanks again everyone for your kind words. My case was investigated by ICE as well so i now know why it took so long.

I was basically denied for not having enough evidence of abuse. I did send my own statement, witness staements, protection orders which Ice say they couldn't find yet asked me to send in notarised copies of them of which they quoted the case numbers. So if I didn't send how come they had the case numbers????? I sent in some medical records highlighting parts that I was being verbally abused. councellor notes where my MIL hit me. One of my biggest problems is that they want a police statement stating about when my MIl hit me. I DID go to the police and made a complaint but when I went back there was no record of it-so what I am supposed to do?. I'm trying to track down the officer I spoke to but it's been 2 years since I spoke to him. I have also lost IM messages in which my ex spoke to me and harrased me.

What I do have and never submitted is an original signed letter from my ex saying that he mentally abused me because he was pyschotic and how he never told me that before we married. I don't know if it would help.

I just feel so down about the whole thing, especially as I know people who been approved just using their affadavits, a few witness statements and councelling notes.

Thanks for your PM Aussiewench- I really appreciated it.

Shona

Shona,

You have Ex Parte Orders of Protection issued by a judge?

Yes I do DM. Why did you put a question mark?-just curious

Today I manage to get some support from a lawyer from The Immigrant support assistance which is pro-bono. I have an an appointment to see her next week.

Shona

Shona,

I surmised that you would have included any Order from the Court with your Prima Facie declaration, but I also seem to recall you live in Michigan and the reason I queried the ex parte order is because these are issued without a hearing. Or was it a Personal Protection Order where your former spouse attended a hearing before a judge? I remember you moved, but were these orders entered while you were still married, and if so, if you don't mind sharing, what was the order for? Stalking, threatening? Were you still residing together at the time the order was issued and enforced?

It's my understanding that if it was an ex parte order of protection that the judge that reviewed the case would have had sufficient information from you to give him or her cause to be concerned for your personal safety and or professional security (if stalking were interfering with a job, for example) before issuing the order. If they are not convinced of either of the above, normally the applicant's request for a TRO or PPO is denied. Did the order lapse at some time?

Hi DM,

Yes as far as I am aware, my attorney at the time sent in the Ex Parte Personal Protection orders for both my ex and my ex MIL along with my I 360. Yes this was an EX Parte order and I was not asked to go to a court hearing. The orderd signed by the judge as I have it hear in front of me was signed on September 16th 2005 and was valid for 6 months until March 31st 2006. I don't understand why ICE said there were no PPO's when they investigated In January2006 becasue at that time there were active??????? I did not have to give any hard evidence just reasons why I felt the need of protection Ie my ex entering the house late at night, after he had already left . that he was pyschotic and would not take his medication, that he had threatened to harm me and my son, that he had threatened deportation. As for his mother the reasons were that she had threatened to kill me, attacked me and some other things.

It stated that the order was entered without a hearing and that both of then could not do the following:

A petition requested respondents to be prohibited from entry to the premises

Petitioner has requested an ex parte order which should be entere into without notice becasue irreparable injury, loss or damage will result from the delay required to give notice or notice itself will preceipitate adverse action before the order can be issued.

Respondent poses a credible threat to the physical safety of the petitioner and /or child of the petitioner

Petitioner and and respondent have a domestic relationship other than dating.

It is ordered xxxxxxxxxxxis prohibited from

a) Entering onto property where petitioner lives

C) assaulting , attacking, beatin , molesting or wounding XXXXXXXXX

E) Stalking as defined under MCL 750 which includes

confronting petitioner in a public place or on private property,

appearing at petitioners workplace or residence and contacting petitioner by telephone

Interfering with petitioners efforts to remove his / her children/personal property from premises solely owned / leased by repondent

Threatening to kill. or physically injure xxxxxxxxxx

It then states that this order is effective when signed, enforced immediately and remains in effect until 03/31/06

This is eactly the same for my ex spouse but also includes internet contact.

Both my ex MIL and Ex spouse filed a motion to terminate but their lawyer continued to get the court hearing adjourned. In my divorce decree he agreed to finally just let the PPO expire unless any new incidence happened. Thankfully I do have all the letters from his lawyer and the court adjourning any temination hearing. Strange that he did not insist that the PPO's shoould go to court.

I guess in a nutshell the PPO order did not laspe until 31/03/06 in which I did not continue it due to no new incidence occuring. I actually moved inn April to somewhere they didn't know. Having said that my MIL has tried to find out where I live via my car insurance company. Of he could not tell her but I have asked him to write a statement about her enquiry as to where I now reside. She has no reason to know where I live.

Just a question , do I have a right to obtain my own councelling records and those of my son? Apparently I have to go through a long procedure and they want to know why I want the records. I have to have them for immigration -it's vital. Can they refuse to give them to me ?????

Shona

sorry haven't spell checked !!!

These PPOs should be very strong evidence for your case. Especially ex parte orders. I didn't understand what you were saying about vacating them. Did your MIL and ex try to challenge the orders? All the same, one issue that can work against a PPO is if the claimant voluntarily chooses to cohabit after seeking the protection order. Did that happen?

As for the counselling records, you have every right to see them, in fact, I can't imagine how you or your lawyers, rather, could conscion sending in an I-360 without a copy of your psychological file. At the very least the I-360 should contian a sworn statement from your psychologist, detailing the treatment you have secured and how it relates to your ex and his family members abuse, and the urgency of your removing yourself rfom them and any prior marital living arrangements. It shouldn't be difficult to secure your records. Your son's I would imagine would be the same thing, since he is a minor and you his legal guardian. Get your attorney to request them. If necessary by order.

The PPO's were in place for 6 months. The Mil and ex tried to challenge them but we never went to a hearing becasue their attorney basically decided to keep adjourning the hearings. In the end they expired on the 31st march which was subject to no further incidences.

No I never co-habited at all after the orders. The only time I ever saw him was at the attorneys office when he was supposed to undergo a deposition. He just did not want to go through with his deposition as he was scared . So that is when we settled instead of going to trial. I guess that's why I got most of everything back becasue he didn't want this to come out in public record.

[Lovetoteach 53]

Oh I just forgot to add that I managed to start the ball rolling in obtaining my records. My councelling can only be sent directly to the lawyer. when I saw my doctor and councellor today we went through some of the evidence in my records. I just now have a problem in trying get any kind of record from the police. I went to see them but ultimately they didn't make a formal report. I don't how the system works in even trying to get calls which were logged-and even if they still have them

Shona

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Oh I just forgot to add that I managed to start the ball rolling in obtaining my records. My councelling can only be sent directly to the lawyer. when I saw my doctor and councellor today we went through some of the evidence in my records. I just now have a problem in trying get any kind of record from the police. I went to see them but ultimately they didn't make a formal report. I don't how the system works in even trying to get calls which were logged-and even if they still have them

Shona

Hmmm. The Police probably make a report of every complainant, but whether it is enforced is up to the individual. Oftentimes, the complainant makes his or her statement, but nothing is done unless the complainant indicates that he or she is intent on pressing charges. Chances are, if you can recall the date this was reported, then there would be something in the police records. Calls to 911 are logged, but I too am not sure how long such records are kept. I'd imagine they are archived, but I am not sure you can simply request them. Most phone records can be subpoenaed, but that requires a court order, and most often this is done in a criminal context.

However, your counsellor's file could help. Make sure a regularity of your sessions is in the information provided and certainly if the dates you met with the pyschologist coincide or follow abusive events that you've reported in your I-360. Don't forget that affidavits can also be provided from persons that you might have contacted to learn of your rights while the abuse was on-going. For example, did you call social services, or a family resource center, or even a lawyer, immigration assistance centre during that time?

[knowledge 0]

Oh I just forgot to add that I managed to start the ball rolling in obtaining my records. My councelling can only be sent directly to the lawyer. when I saw my doctor and councellor today we went through some of the evidence in my records. I just now have a problem in trying get any kind of record from the police. I went to see them but ultimately they didn't make a formal report. I don't how the system works in even trying to get calls which were logged-and even if they still have them

Shona

If i may, there are patient's rights, including the right to have a look and knowledge of it's own file...not only the other professionals involved...For no police record..i don't know how it works in US, but i know here in Canada situations where POfficer do not right records because they think the case is not enough strong...there might be other reasons of course...so that thing seems ambiguous and would be interesting to find that person...to clarify it...maybe your lawyer can do that???

But overall, i may add that the strong argument is the fact that your ex didn't tell you his real mental situation...this rings bells, because it's exactly the source of the problems now...and with his mother, they seem to have a so called "folie à deux" relationship....Thus you need to be protected and your child...as a victim and not denied...

[dmartmar 1]

Welcome to the jungle

It gets worse here everyday

Ya' learn ta live like an animal

In the jungle where we play

If you got a hunger for what you see

You'll take it eventually

You can have anything you want

But you better not take it from me

[MichelleandCraig 1]

That's a very old song.

Why don't you just leave this thread alone if you have nothing useful to add?

Shona, I so hope you can work something out. Think of you often. M.

Edited April 5, 2007 by MichelleandCraig

[Lovetoteach 53]

Thanks Michelle and Craig. I don't what that song is or what it's about. I suspect nothing nice.

I have just been to see the pro bono immigration lawyer who seemed really nice. She is going to look through my case. I also have a lawyer coming with me on the 18th April which won't cost anything. Proving mentally/emotional abuse is so hard. I'm not going to hold my hopes up. I'll probabably have to leave I if anything I hope through voluntary departure.I think I qualify for all the requirements ( apart from trying to get the money to go home. I guess I should thinking a bit about moving , in case, which I suspect things go wrong.

Shona

[KarenCee 3]

Welcome to the jungle

It gets worse here everyday

Ya' learn ta live like an animal

In the jungle where we play

If you got a hunger for what you see

You'll take it eventually

You can have anything you want

But you better not take it from me

*holds up rock so you can crawl back underneath it*

[Lovetoteach 53]

Welcome to the jungle

It gets worse here everyday

Ya' learn ta live like an animal

In the jungle where we play

If you got a hunger for what you see

You'll take it eventually

You can have anything you want

But you better not take it from me

You are just plain weird. Go away. Are you friends with my ex husband ?

Edited April 6, 2007 by shona

[Mary Lou 681]

Welcome to the jungle

It gets worse here everyday

Ya' learn ta live like an animal

In the jungle where we play

If you got a hunger for what you see

You'll take it eventually

You can have anything you want

But you better not take it from me

I've never seen someone get such perverse joy out of other people's problems like you apparently do

[dmartmar 1]

Proving mentally/emotional abuse is so hard. I'm not going to hold my hopes up. I'll probabably have to leave, if anything, through voluntary departure.

You have no idea what went on in my marriage and the abuse that both myself and my children endured. My attorney has 7 pages of it.

What happened? I thought I read somewhere when you said that the CIS also confirmed the abuse!

Edited April 6, 2007 by dmartmar

[babybunny 2]

Thanks for your support.

I have about 5 weeks to address the issues why they are going to deny me. Part of me wants to really fight this because I was abused by my ex husband. The other part just feels like giving up. It's like going through all the abuse again having to find further evidence some of which i just don't have. My attorney is ok but I feel, becasue I can't work and pay him much, that he is not really in this with me. I can understand , it's his job.

What hurts too is that I have a wonderful "friend" who has made my life so happy in the last year, and most likely I will have to leave him.

Shona

FIGHT IT! you have been to hell and back. you take the NOID and you respond to every issue in the document.

dont look at giving up on this or your friend. hang in there...

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Nice Shon! May sound simple to us, but I totally agree with you...keep fightin' Shona...don't give up! M.

[Lovetoteach 53]

Proving mentally/emotional abuse is so hard. I'm not going to hold my hopes up. I'll probabably have to leave, if anything, through voluntary departure.

You have no idea what went on in my marriage and the abuse that both myself and my children endured. My attorney has 7 pages of it.

What happened? I thought I read somewhere when you said that the CIS also confirmed the abuse!

Well that's what it appeared to be since the RFE I received did not ask for any more evidence of the abuse just other things. I obviously got it wrong since they sent a NOID.