Donald Trump suggests ‘2nd Amendment people’ could stop President Hillary Clinton

[yuna628 9,742]

do you live in a city or out in the country?

Country. Is bad behavior with a gun supposed to come with that territory? Because I don't think people should expect that's just the way things are.

[Ban Hammer 13,636]

Country. Is bad behavior with a gun supposed to come with that territory? Because I don't think people should expect that's just the way things are.

some think because they live in the country they can shoot anything anywhere. the sheriff should be notified if someone is shooting in an unsafe manner.

[John Miller 761]

Nothing will happen. They had a case nearby where some dude had a "shooting range" in his backyard. Nothing secured if any shot was ever to miss the target area. Sheriff couldn't do jack since the state laws and local ordinances do not prohibit what he put up there. The neighbors just have to live with the chance of being hit by stray bullets. If and when that happens, then the Sheriff can do something. But not before. The NRA is running the legislature here and it shows.

[yuna628 9,742]

some think because they live in the country they can shoot anything anywhere. the sheriff should be notified if someone is shooting in an unsafe manner.

Are you kidding me? The sheriff lives directly behind the house of one of the main perps on the block. That kid I mentioned earlier? They died within a mere driveway's walk. They know exactly what goes on here.

[JayJayH 546]

The NRA is a big factor here. But the biggest factor is political polarization and lack of trust.
It's a failure of the political right to rein in their crazies, and a failure of the political left to rein in their crazies.

The crazies on either side tend to be the loudest, thus they get the most attention, and ultimately the most power.

That's why you now have a political right who thinks liberals want to take away everyone's guns.

That's also why you now have a political left who thinks conservatives want everyone, everywhere to have guns.

Sadly, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where more and more liberals begin using "ban guns!" rhetoric, while more and more conservatives begin using "no regulation!" rhetoric.

[Ban Hammer 13,636]

Are you kidding me? The sheriff lives directly behind the house of one of the main perps on the block. That kid I mentioned earlier? They died within a mere driveway's walk. They know exactly what goes on here.

so he's part of the problem then. is he elected or appointed?

[Rob L 3,811]

The NRA is a big factor here. But the biggest factor is political polarization and lack of trust.

It's a failure of the political right to rein in their crazies, and a failure of the political left to rein in their crazies.

The crazies on either side tend to be the loudest, thus they get the most attention, and ultimately the most power.

That's why you now have a political right who thinks liberals want to take away everyone's guns.

That's also why you now have a political left who thinks conservatives want everyone, everywhere to have guns.

Sadly, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where more and more liberals begin using "ban guns!" rhetoric, while more and more conservatives begin using "no regulation!" rhetoric.

1 how many 2nd amendment people do not want everyone everywhere to have guns?

2 the titular head and presidential nominee for the Republicans says the the Democratic nominee is trying to abolish the second ammendment. Why shouldn't we believe him?

[JayJayH 546]

1 how many 2nd amendment people do not want everyone everywhere to have guns?

2 the titular head and presidential nominee for the Republicans says the the Democratic nominee is trying to abolish the second ammendment. Why shouldn't we believe him?

1. I haven't met many who actually believe that. In no state can you legally acquire a handgun if you have a felony conviction. I personally think it should be a bit stricter than that, but even Texas has limitations relating to mental disorders. It's a little bit like abortion. Very few people actually believe abortion should be legal up until the due date of the baby, yet that's the impression conservatives usually have of pro-choice activists. Very few people believe anyone should be able to just buy a gun, yet that's the impression liberals usually have of 2nd amendment activists.

So in many cases, there isn't a lack of consensus as much as there is a lack of trust, particularly as a result of federal overreach in later decades. It's no longer enough to compromise with the other side, because we consider the other side to be a crazy bunch of raging lunatics. In that case, it's better to overreach and crush the other side whenever possible. So, 2nd amendment people don't trust liberals on gun control issues, and they shift farther right. Pro-choice activists don't trust conservatives on abortion issues, so they shift left. It's a downward spiral.

2. Frankly, I don't believe much of what the current Democratic nominee says in either direction, but a president has no power to abolish the 2nd amendment. Thankfully, this country's constitution and system of government was design for change to happen very slowly - Which is why it's currently the oldest still-standing constitution in the world.

Edited August 14, 2016 by JayJayH

[Rob L 3,811]

1. I haven't met many who actually believe that. In no state can you legally acquire a handgun if you have a felony conviction. I personally think it should be a bit stricter than that, but even Texas has limitations relating to mental disorders. It's a little bit like abortion. Very few people actually believe abortion should be legal up until the due date of the baby, yet that's the impression conservatives usually have of pro-choice activists. Very few people believe anyone should be able to just buy a gun, yet that's the impression liberals usually have of 2nd amendment activists.

So in many cases, there isn't a lack of consensus as much as there is a lack of trust, particularly as a result of federal overreach in later decades. It's no longer enough to compromise with the other side, because we consider the other side to be a crazy bunch of raging lunatics. In that case, it's better to overreach and crush the other side whenever possible. So, 2nd amendment people don't trust liberals on gun control issues, and they shift farther right. Pro-choice activists don't trust conservatives on abortion issues, so they shift left. It's a downward spiral.

I dont get the implications that a shift to progessive values is a downward spiral.

2. Frankly, I don't believe much of what the current Democratic nominee says in either direction, but a president has no power to abolish the 2nd amendment. Thankfully, this country's constitution and system of government was design for change to happen very slowly - Which is why it's currently the oldest still-standing constitution in the world.

So we agree that when Trump says the when Hillary will abolish your 2nd ammendment rights and that there is nothing you can do about it he is full of it Edited August 14, 2016 by Rob L

[Merle 458]

So we agree that when Trump says the when Hillary will abolish your 2nd ammendment rights and that there is nothing you can do about it he is full of it

If she can't abolish it she will sure try and limit it more than it already has been. Her record and rhetoric show that.

[JayJayH 546]

So we agree that when Trump says the when Hillary will abolish your 2nd ammendment rights and that there is nothing you can do about it he is full of it

I'd go farther and say he's full of it quite often. If I was a staunch 2nd amendment rights advocate, I would have some concerns regarding the federal judges she might appoint, and her husband did manage to implement an assault weapons ban in the 90s. But on the whole, reality is that it would take a lot more than a 4 - 8 year presidential term with a 40% approval rating and a Republican congress to repeal the 2nd amendment.

Efforts to safeguard conservative principles should have started with staying out of Iraq, moderating Fox News a bit, then nominating someone capable of winning a general election and not delving into the abyss of European-style populism. Frankly, I think Trump is doing more damage to conservative interests by merely being the nominee. You don't take a sledgehammer where a scalpel is needed.

Edited August 14, 2016 by JayJayH

[John Miller 761]

Perhaps Hillary planted Trump to cement her chances to become the first Madam President?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

And part of that lack of trust is the insanity Obama and his minions push everyone There is a mass shootings. They immediately want to ban so called asshalt weapons, ban magazines and limit ammo sales. Of course if every weapon in America they want banned disappeared tommorow, it would not affect gun deaths 1%.

They don't want to talk about the real gun violence in the inner city cesspoolso they have created

[JayJayH 546]

And part of that lack of trust is the insanity Obama and his minions push everyone There is a mass shootings. They immediately want to ban so called asshalt weapons, ban magazines and limit ammo sales. Of course if every weapon in America they want banned disappeared tommorow, it would not affect gun deaths 1%.

They don't want to talk about the real gun violence in the inner city cesspoolso they have created

The response after the Orlando shooting was a prime example of how far to the fringes of each side have gotten:

The right: Nothing to do with gun laws. (the weapon)

The left: Nothing to do with No such thing as radical Islam. (the ideology)

Unfortunately the fringes of each side have now found their way into elected government.

Edited August 14, 2016 by JayJayH

[JayJayH 546]

Implications of shift to progressive policies being a downward spiral

I think there are plenty of great ideas within the realms of progressivism. When it becomes a religion of ideological purity, often times based more on feelings than science, it ends up in the same dirt pile as young earth creationism, no matter how good the intentions.

When Vox, Slate, Salon, MSNBC, Buzzfeed and other agenda-driven websites become megaphones for an entire political movement - What, really, differentiates the movement from Sean Hannity, Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh? It's unsustainable, not fact based and serves mainly to vilify others.

Edited August 14, 2016 by JayJayH