Police: George Zimmerman punched in face at Florida restaurant

[smilesammich 10,727]

Yes, because I know for 100% fact if GZ was a black man and TM was a white teen, he'd be in jail right now

And I can say that's a fact. Why? Because, as a black person who's lived here all of my life and seen how this country views us, there's no way he wouldn't have gone to jail. You've had cases where black people have stood their ground and been locked up for doing less damage than GZ ever did. Race isn't what I believe it is, it's how I experience it.

Those weren't my words. Smile!!

and nothing in that quote claims no black man can get away with killing a white person. you're trying to discount an individual's perception of racial injustice in the us as a whole with one very high profile case from what, 20 years ago? come on.

[OriZ 3,157]

and nothing in that quote claims no black man can get away with killing a white person. you're trying to discount an individual's perception of racial injustice in the us as a whole with one very high profile case from what, 20 years ago? come on.

All I am saying is you can't know for a FACT, that if a black Zimmerman killed a white Trayvon he'd be in prison. Because obviously, it does happen. High profile or not I know for a FACT it is not the only example. So, lets not claim we know things for a fact on either side. My initial response to it was I don't think so but I guess it would depend on the jury and the evidence that was presented to them. I think that is much better than saying I know something for a fact. I'm not discounting his perception, but none of us know anything for a fact that has not happened, it's all hypothetical.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

But you are trying to change it, that's my point. You said so yourself, and you questioned why I don't think it should be shoved down people's throat. I never said anything about being more understanding. In the past when you and Jenelle and I had this discussion, I said I believe the best way is to be you. To give people a positive reason to change their perceptions about you and see you for you and completely forget about the color of your skin(or your religion in the case of Jews for instance). That doesn't require you to actively do anything in an attempt to change your opressor's mind, to the contrary. All you need to do is be on your best which you need to do anyway. If you change it through the individuals I believe it is much more effective.

And that's the point you're missing. It's not up to me or Janelle to make someone forget my skin color. That's their job. I shouldn't have to be a saint to get rid of something that wasn't my fault to being with. We're born black, we didn't get a choice. Just like it's not your job to make me not hate you for being Jewish, I should be giving you the same benefit of the doubt as I would anyone else.

[OriZ 3,157]

And that's the point you're missing. It's not up to me or Janelle to make someone forget my skin color. That's their job. I shouldn't have to be a saint to get rid of something that wasn't my fault to being with. We're born black, we didn't get a choice. Just like it's not your job to make me not hate you for being Jewish, I should be giving you the same benefit of the doubt as I would anyone else.

I don't understand, how am I making it your job? You're making it your job, I'm giving you a much easier way. At the end of the day if you're a good person that's what they'll see. That doesn't mean you need to work extra hard to convince them, it means you need to be yourself. If you contribute to society, if you're a productive person, etc...Yeah Jews have the ADL but for the most part, how do you think Jews have come so far in the last 70 years? Not by yelling and screaming for the most part but by being a productive part of society and showing the world what they can do. Bottom up, not top down. Through each and every single individual that comes in contact with a Jewish person on a daily basis. If you come in contact with people that hate black people but they take a liking to you personally, eventually they won't even notice the color of your skin, but you're the one who keeps reminding everyone of the color of your skin so how do you expect them to forget what it is? You don't change hearts and minds through telling people that everyone hates you for being black, you do it by showing them there's really no reason to see any color on you.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

All I am saying is you can't know for a FACT, that if a black Zimmerman killed a white Trayvon he'd be in prison. Because obviously, it does happen. High profile or not I know for a FACT it is not the only example. So, lets not claim we know things for a fact on either side. My initial response to it was I don't think so but I guess it would depend on the jury and the evidence that was presented to them. I think that is much better than saying I know something for a fact. I'm not discounting his perception, but none of us know anything for a fact that has not happened, it's all hypothetical.

But we do know for a fact he would be. You'd have to be blind not to see how this society views black people as a whole. In fact, there was a case where the situation was opposite, and the black guy was completely in the right. And he was still locked up, immediately. He had to be cleared first before he could be released, in which GZ was let go first, and only after the protests, he was arrested.

I don't understand, how am I making it your job? You're making it your job, I'm giving you a much easier way. At the end of the day if you're a good person that's what they'll see. That doesn't mean you need to work extra hard to convince them, it means you need to be yourself. If you contribute to society, if you're a productive person, etc...Yeah Jews have the ADL but for the most part, how do you think Jews have come so far in the last 70 years? Not by yelling and screaming for the most part but by being a productive part of society and showing the world what they can do. Bottom up, not top down. Through each and every single individual that comes in contact with a Jewish person on a daily basis. If you come in contact with people that hate black people but they take a liking to you personally, eventually they won't even notice the color of your skin, but you're the one who keeps reminding everyone of the color of your skin so how do you expect them to forget what it is? You don't change hearts and minds through telling people that everyone hates you for being black, you do it by showing them there's really no reason to see any color on you.

And you're wrong again. I've been a good person my entire life. It didn't help me when I was attacked by the police, nor when I was denied service at certain places of eating and entertainment. I've been a productive member of society and it doesn't protect me when I'm asked am I part of a gang.

And what you're still missing is, it's stupid to tell someone to not notice your skin color. It's a part of me, not something you can just ignore. That's like me saying, wow Oriz, you're cool, I completely forgot you're Jewish.

Having black skin isn't a negative thing. You shouldn't have to forget I'm black in order to like me as a person.

[OriZ 3,157]

I don't need them to forget I'm Jewish. I also don't need them to remember that I'm Jewish. It shouldn't be a thought to start with, just as you being black shouldn't be a thought to start with. Seeing people as people works much better. I can give you an example but Teddy would have to cover his ears, my wife's dad used to be a pretty racist person. Old school, white, midwestern, blue collar family. Mind you, that did not effect the way that my wife has shaped her world growing up, probably especially since he was never around anyway. He never approved of her marriage to a black person, not that she cared. It wasn't till he got to play with little black kids in the pool(not hers as they were mixed but there were some other black kids that got adopted into the family but I don't remember all the specifics of by whom or why, but he ended up having to take care of them sometimes, which at first he really didn't like) that his views started changing. He's now approved her marriage to a Jewish person(me), and still regularly sees the kids he used to play with that aren't kids anymore and has no problem with people just for being black.

Now, I'm not saying every case is like that. Some people will never budge. But I've also had my fair share of experiences with people who came with certain prejudice towards Jewish people till they got to know me better. If you personally have some good friends that don't care that you're black, and they have friends or family that may have cared but see it differently now, and they have other friends and family etc...do you see where I'm going with this...I think change is always best through the individuals. Take the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for instance. I don't believe politicians will ever solve it. They're all stupid, on both sides. It's the people that have to get together and come to terms with the other's existence, and there's already some groups doing so over there. When I was younger and actually had time for internet chat, I used to meet plenty of Palestinians, some became friends, even in rl. I actually found out one of them worked in construction on a set of buildings right next to where I used to live(it was prior to us talking, by then they were already built but still - small world).

Yes, you have obviously had some bad experiences. I'm not saying everything can be perfect. It's not like kicking and screaming is going to change those experiences either. I think you've got a better chance through changing individual's prejudicial bias, but as I said before you're free to choose otherwise.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I don't need them to forget I'm Jewish. I also don't need them to remember that I'm Jewish. It shouldn't be a thought to start with, just as you being black shouldn't be a thought to start with. Seeing people as people works much better. I can give you an example but Teddy would have to cover his ears, my wife's dad used to be a pretty racist person. Old school, white, midwestern, blue collar family. Mind you, that did not effect the way that my wife has shaped her world growing up, probably especially since he was never around anyway. He never approved of her marriage to a black person, not that she cared. It wasn't till he got to play with little black kids in the pool(not hers as they were mixed but there were some other black kids that got adopted into the family but I don't remember all the specifics of by whom or why, but he ended up having to take care of them sometimes, which at first he really didn't like) that his views started changing. He's now approved her marriage to a Jewish person(me), and still regularly sees the kids he used to play with that aren't kids anymore and has no problem with people just for being black.

Now, I'm not saying every case is like that. Some people will never budge. But I've also had my fair share of experiences with people who came with certain prejudice towards Jewish people till they got to know me better. If you personally have some good friends that don't care that you're black, and they have friends or family that may have cared but see it differently now, and they have other friends and family etc...do you see where I'm going with this...I think change is always best through the individuals. Take the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for instance. I don't believe politicians will ever solve it. They're all stupid, on both sides. It's the people that have to get together and come to terms with the other's existence, and there's already some groups doing so over there. When I was younger and actually had time for internet chat, I used to meet plenty of Palestinians, some became friends, even in rl. I actually found out one of them worked in construction on a set of buildings right next to where I used to live(it was prior to us talking, by then they were already built but still - small world).

Yes, you have obviously had some bad experiences. I'm not saying everything can be perfect. It's not like kicking and screaming is going to change those experiences either. I think you've got a better chance through changing individual's prejudicial bias, but as I said before you're free to choose otherwise.

How do you think revolutions start? Nothing changes in that way by being a good person and praying for the best.

Every civil right we've gained we've gotten by making noise. Marching, protesting, even riots. The cops that beat Rodney almost to death wouldn't have been convicted if they didn't burn down Watts. MLK died to make a way for us. He didn't do that by being nice. He did that by protesting and marching. And even though he was as peaceful as he could have been, it cost him his life and white people as a whole STILL didn't like him.

If you want change, it starts with you, but on a large scale you have to make noise. If not, nothing will happen.

[OriZ 3,157]

How do you think revolutions start? Nothing changes in that way by being a good person and praying for the best.

Every civil right we've gained we've gotten by making noise. Marching, protesting, even riots. The cops that beat Rodney almost to death wouldn't have been convicted if they didn't burn down Watts. MLK died to make a way for us. He didn't do that by being nice. He did that by protesting and marching. And even though he was as peaceful as he could have been, it cost him his life and white people as a whole STILL didn't like him.

If you want change, it starts with you, but on a large scale you have to make noise. If not, nothing will happen.

I have no problem with MLK but if you're suggesting we need a revolution then this is getting way too weird for me.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I have no problem with MLK but if you're suggesting we need a revolution then this is getting way too weird for me.

Even MLK has a quote about riots.

http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/riot-is-the-language-of-the-unheard-what-mlk-would-have-said-about-the-london-riots/

Protests, marches, boycotts. These things are needed in order to induce change. Because if I have to ask for a victory and you give it to me, it's not mine, it's yours.