Fla. Girl's Killer Gets Death Sentence

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Does it really punish him more? Is it going to deter the next guy who's high on cocaine and heroin from doing something similar?

The death penalty is about vengeance.

Yes, and it's expensive as hell.

May those that seek vengeance pay for it.

Most Americans support the death penalty. If that wasn't the case, the death penalty would not exist in this country.

Are you saying you don't want to pay for it?

Sure, as long as I can get a tax refund for money that goes to causes I don't support.

Is there a difference between supporting the roads, the airways, the justice system, etc. (common good) on one side and vengeance on the other? I'd like to think so.

There certainly is in Europe at any rate.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Does it really punish him more? Is it going to deter the next guy who's high on cocaine and heroin from doing something similar?

The death penalty is about vengeance.

Yes, and it's expensive as hell.

May those that seek vengeance pay for it.

Most Americans support the death penalty. If that wasn't the case, the death penalty would not exist in this country.

Are you saying you don't want to pay for it?

Sure, as long as I can get a tax refund for money that goes to causes I don't support.

Is there a difference between supporting the roads, the airways, the justice system, etc. (common good) on one side and vengeance on the other? I'd like to think so.

There certainly is in Europe at any rate.

Yeah, but we're not in Europe anymore. Or something like that...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Does it really punish him more? Is it going to deter the next guy who's high on cocaine and heroin from doing something similar?

The death penalty is about vengeance.

Yes, and it's expensive as hell.

May those that seek vengeance pay for it.

Most Americans support the death penalty. If that wasn't the case, the death penalty would not exist in this country.

Are you saying you don't want to pay for it?

Sure, as long as I can get a tax refund for money that goes to causes I don't support.

Is there a difference between supporting the roads, the airways, the justice system, etc. (common good) on one side and vengeance on the other? I'd like to think so.

There certainly is in Europe at any rate.

Yeah, but we're not in Europe anymore. Or something like that...

Like I said, you don't get to pick and choose between what your tax dollars will pay for. That's a fact in Europe and it's a fact here. The only real difference between Europe and the US is public sentiment on this issue.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Does it really punish him more? Is it going to deter the next guy who's high on cocaine and heroin from doing something similar?

The death penalty is about vengeance.

Yes, and it's expensive as hell.

May those that seek vengeance pay for it.

Most Americans support the death penalty. If that wasn't the case, the death penalty would not exist in this country.

Are you saying you don't want to pay for it?

Sure, as long as I can get a tax refund for money that goes to causes I don't support.

Is there a difference between supporting the roads, the airways, the justice system, etc. (common good) on one side and vengeance on the other? I'd like to think so.

There certainly is in Europe at any rate.

Yeah, but we're not in Europe anymore. Or something like that...

Like I said, you don't get to pick and choose between what your tax dollars will pay for. That's a fact in Europe and it's a fact here. The only real difference between Europe and the US is public sentiment on this issue.

There is no such thing as publicly financed vengeance in Europe.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Which is why the death penalty is an aberration. We all pay to finance it regardless of our views on the matter.

The debate over capital punishment, as with abortion, has largely been over in Europe for decades. In some ways it seems like a step back to see images of people in the news jumping and cheering when a criminal gets sentenced.

All our resources seem to be spent on hurling hellfire and brimstone at convicted felons, we're rather less bothered about finding out what is wrong with our society that causes people to behave like this. The US for example has a monopoly on serial killers, similarly cities like Los Angeles are notorious for black and latino gang crime, but we seem less interested in discussing or finding solutions to the real social problems that cause this kind of activity.

Unfortunately every time I ask this question I get accused of having some sort of desire to protect criminals rather than victims of crime. Untrue and inaccurate.

I think some people don't want to hear about social inequalities (a major cause of crime for instance can be tied to economic inequalities). Part of the reason that blacks and latinos are filling our jails is because ethnic communities are traditionally poorer and are less likely to enter higher education. I think there's a general unwillingness to accept that these factors play a role in determining the opportunities that are available for different people. I'm all for holding people responsible for their actions, but that's not to say I think a person's choice to turn to crime isn't at least influenced by external factors. Anyway... that's going a little O/T for this thread. I seem to do that quite a bit...

Edited March 16, 2006 by Fishdude

[dalegg 143]

I think some people don't want to hear about social inequalities (a major cause of crime for instance can be tied to economic inequalities). Part of the reason that blacks and latinos are filling our jails is because ethnic communities are traditionally poorer and are less likely to enter higher education. I think there's a general unwillingness to accept that these factors play a role in determining the opportunities that are available for different people. I'm all for holding people responsible for their actions, but that's not to say I think a person's choice to turn to crime isn't at least influenced by external factors. Anyway... that's going a little O/T for this thread. I seem to do that quite a bit...

Can we still send the white guys to death (like this one and the majority of defendants executed) since they can't claim social inequalities?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think some people don't want to hear about social inequalities (a major cause of crime for instance can be tied to economic inequalities). Part of the reason that blacks and latinos are filling our jails is because ethnic communities are traditionally poorer and are less likely to enter higher education. I think there's a general unwillingness to accept that these factors play a role in determining the opportunities that are available for different people. I'm all for holding people responsible for their actions, but that's not to say I think a person's choice to turn to crime isn't at least influenced by external factors. Anyway... that's going a little O/T for this thread. I seem to do that quite a bit...

Can we still send the white guys to death (like this one and the majority of defendants executed) since they can't claim social inequalities?

Yeah, fry 'em.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think some people don't want to hear about social inequalities (a major cause of crime for instance can be tied to economic inequalities). Part of the reason that blacks and latinos are filling our jails is because ethnic communities are traditionally poorer and are less likely to enter higher education. I think there's a general unwillingness to accept that these factors play a role in determining the opportunities that are available for different people. I'm all for holding people responsible for their actions, but that's not to say I think a person's choice to turn to crime isn't at least influenced by external factors. Anyway... that's going a little O/T for this thread. I seem to do that quite a bit...

Can we still send the white guys to death (like this one and the majority of defendants executed) since they can't claim social inequalities?

Well race is the most obvious type of social inequality (which is why I used it as an example), but its not the only one. Children subjected to an abusive upbringing, for instance, can grow up into abusive adults. Not all the time of course, but there is a correlation between a person's upbringing, social background and their subsequent behaviour. Unfortunately to really reduce criminality requires radical solutions that most people would not want to pay for - a general redistribution of wealth, reforming and funding a better public education system and providing better social services.

Personally speaking, I don't agree with the death penalty. Its expensive for one thing (as ET suggested), but I have moral objections to it as well. Revenge leaves a nasty taste in the mouth...

[Jaylen Brit 0]

I see what you're saying there Fish - and maybe poverty does in some small way 'excuse' crimes like robbery, drug taking, and burglary.

But it can't 'excuse' the taking of lives - which is done across all social groups bands creeds and colors.

To try and excuse that crime, and the crime of sexual battery, sends the message 'oh well that's alright then - he came from a poor background' or at the very worst 'its ok to do that if you are poor, deprived and had a difficult childhood or are strung out on drugs'.

If it is murder (pre-meditated, planned, and attempts made to hide the event - which in most cases is the case) there can BE no excuse in a society that strives to protect its citizens.

The problem is that no sentence, be it death or life in prison, seems to deter the person who is set upon that course.

All it does is remove that person from society- preventing them from engaging in that behaviour again (this is a good thing).

Maybe some of it is because we as a society send mixed messgaes about crime, and about how people are viewed - there's a lack of respect towards many people for example - and the fact that the news media (and movies) often glorify the crime/criminal by publishing their every move since birth - they make them into 'famous people' - make movies about them..and we watch it. We buy the papers, we read the stories. We don't read that 'John 'nosepicker' Doe was a socially inadequate loser who couldn't look after himself, left his room dirty and smelly, and was disliked by all' making him someone no-one would want to emulate - we read about 'John David Doe, his life, his school years and history' as if he was a president or famous actor..

I hope that poor girl's parents find some comfort from somewhere - for damn sure they'll never get over how brutally their child was torn from the world

[LenJayUS 0]

The debate over capital punishment, as with abortion, has largely been over in Europe for decades. In some ways it seems like a step back to see images of people in the news jumping and cheering when a criminal gets sentenced.

All our resources seem to be spent on hurling hellfire and brimstone at convicted felons, we're rather less bothered about finding out what is wrong with our society that causes people to behave like this. The US for example has a monopoly on serial killers, similarly cities like Los Angeles are notorious for black and latino gang crime, but we seem less interested in discussing or finding solutions to the real social problems that cause this kind of activity.

Unfortunately every time I ask this question I get accused of having some sort of desire to protect criminals rather than victims of crime. Untrue and inaccurate.

I think some people don't want to hear about social inequalities (a major cause of crime for instance can be tied to economic inequalities). Part of the reason that blacks and latinos are filling our jails is because ethnic communities are traditionally poorer and are less likely to enter higher education. I think there's a general unwillingness to accept that these factors play a role in determining the opportunities that are available for different people. I'm all for holding people responsible for their actions, but that's not to say I think a person's choice to turn to crime isn't at least influenced by external factors. Anyway... that's going a little O/T for this thread. I seem to do that quite a bit...

As far as this dude getting sentenced to die... GREAT!

There's more to it then social inequalities. Dealing with alot of troubled youth at work alot, it's not just about money and what not. This may sound racist, but it's not... you'll find that I'm not a racist at all. Most of our prison where I work is filled with blacks. Find out who their role models are. Do you think it would be people like Denzil Washington, Morgan Freeman, Bill Cosby and other law abiding, successful people? Or do you think it's people like Snoop Dogg and other rappers that have strong ties to gangs and what not? Alot of their culture flock to the bad boys, and they want to copy their life style. 50 Cent is a popular rapper amongst the thug-wanna-be's in my prison... he's been shot I forget how many times. Doing time in prison is a way for them to get street cred.

Most of the one's that break the law don't want to do things the traditional way - get a basic education, go on to college, get a job, become successful. No... they want to drop out of school at a young age, and sling crack on street corners. There's a lack of forwarding thinking... it's all about the here and now.

I worked with a black guy in Germany when I was in the army... and he was a bit of a racist himself... but he said for all the problems with the white people... they knew how to plan and prepare for the future. We were talking about mutual funds and savings when he said this.

No matter what social class you grow up in, you have the same oppertunities as each other. Yes, it'll be a bit easier for the rich ones. But if you apply yourself early on, in school mostly, doors continue to open. But that seems to be impossible for the thug wanna be's.

And it's because of that, that the social inequalities seem to get worse and worse. The ghetto is the ghetto because as a whole, the people there let it become that. If drugs were frowned upon by the neighborhood, instead of just about everyone taking hits off a joint with each other... they'd find their neighbors in better shape... and safer. There's no way in hell I'd let some one start selling drugs on my street. It's not going to happen. If I think one of my neighbors is slinging dope from their house... I'm making a few phone calls.

It's not a question of money or education. These people need to get their heads on right and start being held responsable for their own actions.. not placing the blame on their dads that took off, or their mom working 3 jobs to try and support them, or the crack they were high on when they killed someone.

All of htis is of course my opinion.

[Scott & Lai 12]

As far as this dude getting sentenced to die... GREAT!

There's more to it then social inequalities. Dealing with alot of troubled youth at work alot, it's not just about money and what not. This may sound racist, but it's not... you'll find that I'm not a racist at all. Most of our prison where I work is filled with blacks. Find out who their role models are. Do you think it would be people like Denzil Washington, Morgan Freeman, Bill Cosby and other law abiding, successful people? Or do you think it's people like Snoop Dogg and other rappers that have strong ties to gangs and what not? Alot of their culture flock to the bad boys, and they want to copy their life style. 50 Cent is a popular rapper amongst the thug-wanna-be's in my prison... he's been shot I forget how many times. Doing time in prison is a way for them to get street cred.

Most of the one's that break the law don't want to do things the traditional way - get a basic education, go on to college, get a job, become successful. No... they want to drop out of school at a young age, and sling crack on street corners. There's a lack of forwarding thinking... it's all about the here and now.

I worked with a black guy in Germany when I was in the army... and he was a bit of a racist himself... but he said for all the problems with the white people... they knew how to plan and prepare for the future. We were talking about mutual funds and savings when he said this.

No matter what social class you grow up in, you have the same oppertunities as each other. Yes, it'll be a bit easier for the rich ones. But if you apply yourself early on, in school mostly, doors continue to open. But that seems to be impossible for the thug wanna be's.

And it's because of that, that the social inequalities seem to get worse and worse. The ghetto is the ghetto because as a whole, the people there let it become that. If drugs were frowned upon by the neighborhood, instead of just about everyone taking hits off a joint with each other... they'd find their neighbors in better shape... and safer. There's no way in hell I'd let some one start selling drugs on my street. It's not going to happen. If I think one of my neighbors is slinging dope from their house... I'm making a few phone calls.

It's not a question of money or education. These people need to get their heads on right and start being held responsable for their own actions.. not placing the blame on their dads that took off, or their mom working 3 jobs to try and support them, or the crack they were high on when they killed someone.

All of htis is of course my opinion.

Edited March 17, 2006 by Scott & Lai

[Sister Fracas 5]

yeah, let's not bother finding out why people get the way they do...just fry 'em...

[irishgirl73 0]

yeah, let's not bother finding out why people get the way they do...just fry 'em...

I say we should take some of these losers to Iraq-use them to see if there are IED's.................seriously, put them to work some how-will they die? hopefully..................I wouldn't lose one bit of sleep over it. Throw them on the road-I could care less. I don't have any compassion for child murderers, molestors, rapists....................none of them.

I wish they would stop using drugs/alcohol as an excuse-either you are a psycho or you aren't it is that simple! I have never known anyone who smoked pot and kidnapped a small child-get real.

Just how I am feeling at the moment-sorry for the little rant!

[Scott & Lai 12]

yeah, let's not bother finding out why people get the way they do...just fry 'em...

I say we should take some of these losers to Iraq-use them to see if there are IED's.................seriously, put them to work some how-will they die? hopefully..................I wouldn't lose one bit of sleep over it. Throw them on the road-I could care less. I don't have any compassion for child murderers, molestors, rapists....................none of them.

I wish they would stop using drugs/alcohol as an excuse-either you are a psycho or you aren't it is that simple! I have never known anyone who smoked pot and kidnapped a small child-get real.

Just how I am feeling at the moment-sorry for the little rant!

[Sister Fracas 5]

yeah, let's not bother finding out why people get the way they do...just fry 'em...

I say we should take some of these losers to Iraq-use them to see if there are IED's.................seriously, put them to work some how-will they die? hopefully..................I wouldn't lose one bit of sleep over it. Throw them on the road-I could care less. I don't have any compassion for child murderers, molestors, rapists....................none of them.

I wish they would stop using drugs/alcohol as an excuse-either you are a psycho or you aren't it is that simple! I have never known anyone who smoked pot and kidnapped a small child-get real.

Just how I am feeling at the moment-sorry for the little rant!

my comment was said sarcastically, because I'm of the opinion that you can't begin to solve the problems of crime without figuring out what causes someone to become a psycho as you put it. But instead people want a quick fix...just kill them...and we'll all be better off...

it's quite sad actually.

but this is yet just another debate that is never going to be solved on the internet and people's opinions won't be changed. you're either for the death penalty or not.

Edited March 17, 2006 by Frances