Orlando terror attack worst mass shooting in US history

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So I'll ask. How many people here think it's completely normal to kill groups of people just because?

[GandD 5,966]

Just because makes you crazy. Because you hate makes you radicalized.

[Sousuke 1,214]

So I'll ask. How many people here think it's completely normal to kill groups of people just because?

I don't, but I think we can separate out incidences motivated by hate vs clinical issues.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

So I'll ask. How many people here think it's completely normal to kill groups of people just because?

So I guess all the Nazi folks were Mentally ill.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Just because makes you crazy. Because you hate makes you radicalized.

The monster who did this, seems to have an issue with being gay. Seeing how folks in this country treats gay people, it could go either way. I know radicalization is what people want to call it, but it could be just a hatred against gay people. Because if he was a conservative Christian, no way in hell we'd say he was radicalized. We'd call him crazy. That's what happened with the PP shooter.

I don't, but I think we can separate out incidences motivated by hate vs clinical issues.

Hating someone doesn't make you crazy. Killing a bunch of people based on hatred of folks you don't know is crazy.

So I guess all the Nazi folks were Mentally ill.

Torturing and killing people requires a certain amount of mental instability. Unless you think it's a normal thing for folks to say let's kill all these folks, and we be like okay...

[Sousuke 1,214]

Hating someone doesn't make you crazy. Killing a bunch of people based on hatred of folks you don't know is crazy.

One reason why I disagree with you is that if you start to label a person motivated to kill by hate as "crazy", it seems to me at least, that it dismisses their actions, at least to some degree.

And I'm not in anyway knocking Islam.

We've had a woman hater do this, we've had a Christian do this, we've even had a killer use his aethism as a reason.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Sousuke

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

One reason why I disagree with you is that if you start to label a person motivated to kill by hate as "crazy", it seems to me at least, that it dismisses their actions, at least to some degree.

It's not, but what I'm saying is, it's not normal(at least to me) that hating someone = walking into a club and shooting 50 people. If I hate you and we get into a fight I'm pretty sure I won't kill you.

This shooter clearly had issues regarding his sexuality. Unless you want to argue that he had a personal bone to pick with all the people he shot. Hate groups hate on people, but even they're not crazy enough to go around killing folks on site. The ones that do, have many screws loose...

[Janelle2002 3,865]

It's not, but what I'm saying is, it's not normal(at least to me) that hating someone = walking into a club and shooting 50 people. If I hate you and we get into a fight I'm pretty sure I won't kill you.

This shooter clearly had issues regarding his sexuality. Unless you want to argue that he had a personal bone to pick with all the people he shot. Hate groups hate on people, but even they're not crazy enough to go around killing folks on site. The ones that do, have many screws loose...

It's normal in America's eyes. The KKK burned crosses while lynching black pepole on their lawns and people didn't bat an eye. It's going to be hard to convince some living in a country built off of hate, that hate indeed is NOT normal and it is completely wrong, stupid and mentally disturbing to hate someone based off of sex, sexual preference, religion, disability or skin color.

Unless it's a lone white guy, then it's mental illness due to his BMW broke down. Yeah, something like that

Edited June 14, 2016 by Janelle2002

[smilesammich 10,727]

Obama called out Republicans for criticizing the way he discusses terrorism and extremist groups — which follows the same logic as his Republican predecessor — and he directed particular attention at the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee, Donald Trump.

Regarding terms such as "radical Islam" and "radical Islamists," Obama said, "It's a political talking point. It's not a strategy."

Here's a passage from today's speech:

"What exactly would using this label accomplish? What exactly would it change? Would it make ISIS less committed to trying to kill Americans? Would it bring in more allies? Is there a military strategy that is served by this? The answer is none of the above. Calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away. This is a political distraction."

The argument over how to refer to violent religious extremists has become an issue in the presidential campaign – as NPR's Brian Naylor reports for today's Morning Edition, that argument pits accusations of political correctness against charges of broad inaccuracy. Brian's story includes this historical context:

"In refusing to use the term 'radical Islam,' Obama was following a precedent set by his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush, who said after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that 'ours is not a campaign against the Muslim faith. Ours is a campaign against evil.' "

The president's remarks followed a National Security Council meeting on ISIS (or, to use U.S. officials' preferred acronym, ISIL) at the Department of Treasury.

Obama took more than 25 minutes to explore those and other ideas today; his remarks also included an update on the investigation into this past weekend's shootings in Orlando — an update he concluded by saying it should be harder for gunmen to get their hands on powerful weapons in the U.S. But it was his discussion of the "radical Islam" argument – and America's relationships with Muslims — that seemed to spark the most passion from the president.

Recalling seven and a half years of trying to combat terrorism, Obama said, "Not once has an adviser of mine said, 'Man, if we really use that phrase, we're going to turn this whole thing around.' Not once."

After a pause of several seconds, Obama continued:

"So, someone seriously thinks that we don't know who we're fighting? If there's anyone out there who thinks we're confused about who our enemies are, that would come as a surprise to the thousands of terrorists who... we've taken off the battlefield. If the implication is that those of us up here and the thousands of people around the country and around the world who are working to defeat ISIL aren't taking the fight seriously, that'd come as a surprise to those who've spent these last seven and a half years dismantling Al Qaida in the FATA, for example – including the men and women in uniform who put their lives at risk, and the special forces that I ordered to get Bin Laden and are now on the ground in Iraq and in Syria. They know full well who the enemy is."

Obama also cited the intelligence and law enforcement personnel who work to foil terrorist plots and to protect "all Americans – including politicians who tweet and appear on cable news shows."

The president then explored the reasons he is careful with his language, calling it part of a strategy to defeat extremism:

"Groups like ISIL and Al Qaeda want to make this war a war between Islam and America, or between Islam and the West. They want to claim that they are the true leaders of over a billion Muslims around the world who reject their crazy notions. They want us to validate them, by implying that they speak for those billion-plus people, that they speak for Islam. That's their propaganda. That's how they recruit. And if we fall into the trap of painting all Muslims with a broad brush, and imply that we are at war with an entire religion, then we are doing the terrorists' work for them."

Obama then turned to the current discussion in American politics – dismissing partisan talk about the label as "yapping."

The president then turned his attention to the current political climate, particularly the sentiments of Donald Trump, who said in the wake of the Orlando violence to "expand on his previous call to temporarily ban all Muslims from immigrating to the United States," as NPR reported Monday.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/14/482041137/president-obama-slams-yapping-over-radical-islam-and-terrorism?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

So I guess all the Nazi folks were Mentally ill.

You don't have to go that far back, look at the civil rights era and the lynching of black people, many mainstream people thought it was ok

and I say they had some major screws loose to be 'swept up' in this mentality.

Indian massacres and reservations....where do we start and stop ? Just look at this country for many examples.

There is good and evil in people and there is mental illness.

There is good and evil in those who claim a particular religion, be it Christian, Islam or whatever, including atheism.

Why must this be picked apart to the point of a dividing camp ?

The killer was not good, he was evil, he is mentally unstable (no excuses but a fact) and his religion is Islam.

Why must it be just one or the other ? Can't we agree he was a Muslim who has mental issues and used radical Islam as an

excuse to kill ? Can a radicalized Islam believer possibly be mentally ill ? Or are they all examples of just pure evil without

the mental factor and in perfect mental health ? Can only white people be mentally sick who kill ?

This has been brought up before but posters are reflecting away. Answer the questions.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Recalling seven and a half years of trying to combat terrorism, Obama said, "Not once has an adviser of mine said, 'Man, if we really use that phrase, we're going to turn this whole thing around.' Not once."

This has me rolling in tears.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

When we tried to put the killing of 49 people at an Orlando nightclub on Sunday morning in context, we said and wrote that it was the "deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history."

It was a deadlier attack than the shooting at Virginia Tech, which left 33 people dead, including the shooter.

Almost immediately, our readers and listeners said we were whitewashing history.

What about the Wounded Knee Massacre? Or Mountain Meadows Massacre in 1857? Or the Tulsa Massacre in 1921, a reader on Twitter asked.

The Wounded Knee Massacre was devastating about 250 Native Americans were killed by American troops in the late 1800s. Only one man faced prosecution for the Mountain Meadows Massacre, but it was actually a Mormon militia that killed 120 men, women and children. The Tulsa Massacre ended with about 300 people killed by mobs of white people.

This is something we discussed in the newsroom. It felt like the shootings in Orlando, in Sandy Hook, at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas were different enough that we could say "deadliest mass shooting in the U.S." and still be respectful of all that previous history.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/13/481884291/putting-deadliest-mass-shooting-in-u-s-history-into-some-historical-context

Edited June 14, 2016 by Janelle2002

[B_J 2,752]

Hating someone doesn't make you crazy. Killing a bunch of people based on hatred of folks you don't know is crazy.

If we label a person as crazy because he is a racist who killed a bunch of black people; that takes away his responsibility. In a way, it makes him a victim of his mental disease. I do not agree with this. The person who commits an act like that is very aware of what they are doing. There are many labels I would put on a person like this; but certainly not crazy.

I think we may be simply be disagreeing on the meaning of "crazy"

[lostinblue 1,989]

It's normal in America's eyes. The KKK burned crosses while lynching black pepole on their lawns and people didn't bat an eye. It's going to be hard to convince some living in a country built off of hate, that hate indeed is NOT normal and it is completely wrong, stupid and mentally disturbing to hate someone based off of sex, sexual preference, religion, disability or skin color.

Unless it's a lone white guy, then it's mental illness due to his BMW broke down. Yeah, something like that

[smilesammich 10,727]

It's normal in America's eyes. The KKK burned crosses while lynching black pepole on their lawns and people didn't bat an eye. It's going to be hard to convince some living in a country built off of hate, that hate indeed is NOT normal and it is completely wrong, stupid and mentally disturbing to hate someone based off of sex, sexual preference, religion, disability or skin color.

Unless it's a lone white guy, then it's mental illness due to his BMW broke down. Yeah, something like that

this is why no one takes you seriously.