Police Certificate NOT available - Help

[*FishF00D* 45]

I'm in a weird predicament, wondering if anyone else has ever used a Statutory Declaration in place of a Police Certificate when that certificate can NOT be produced?

Situation:
Myself (and fiancé) spent 7 months traveling together in Cambodia.
We spent the majority of that time at one guesthouse in Sihanoukville without paying rent (owner is a friend)
My understanding is that I need a police check from Cambodia because I was in the country for 6+ months.

----- However ----
To acquire a police certificate from Cambodia you have to appear in person at the Ministry of Justice in PP.
To get the Police Cert. from them you have to provide a "Certificate of Residence" given to you by the Sangkat (community center).
The Certificate of Residence can only be produced by giving the Sangkat a copy of your lease agreement.

I did not ever hold a lease or pay rent in Cambodia so I can not get a Residence Certificate,
Therefore, I also can not get a Police Certificate from the Ministry of Justice.

I was a traveler, not a resident, despite the length of my stay.
A lease can't be created retroactively, and I've read a lot of old forums on here where people described paying-off various officials to get it done - but the most recent one suggests that the Sangkat people no longer have the ability to "create" Residence Certificates when given tea-money, so that is also not an option.


Long story short, I plan on drafting a Statutory Declaration and swearing an oath to the above, and that:
Even if I fly to Cambodia (for $1500+) and negotiate with the MoJ (despite not being able to read/write/speak Khmer) that I can't make a Police Certificate appear because I'm unable to prove I ever held residence in Cambodia.


Will the USCIS or DOS or the Consulate have any problem with this?
I plan on attaching relevant documents supporting my claim, along with a sworn statement from the guesthouse owner stating that I didn't ever pay him for my stay.

Thank you thank you thank you, the last thing I want is to find out at the last minute that they demand I fly to Cambodia to get this paperwork, even though I know that it's not possible for me to get it.

[MADDEN 40]

I believe you will not be required to obtain a police certificate from Cambodia, certain countries are exempt if you no longer reside there.

http://usvisa.com/policecertificates.shtml

[*FishF00D* 45]

Thanks, but that website is seriously out of date (this info was posted in 2000!)

The February 2000 version of DSL-1083 gives the following information:

Do not attempt to obtain police certificates covering residence in any of the following countries as they are not available:

Afghanistan* Iran* Saudi Arabia* Angola* Iraq* Sierra Leone Azerbaijan* Jordan Somalia* Bangladesh* Kazakhstan Sri Lanka Bulgaria* Laos* Sudan Cambodia* Liberia Syria*

Whereas the reciprocity schedule on the Department of State website states:

Cambodia Reciprocity Schedule Police Records/ Criminal Records

Available.

Police records can be obtained at the Criminal Records Office of the Ministry of Justice, at #14, Samdech Sothearos (3). The individual requesting the police record must appear in person. However, if the individual is not currently in Cambodia, he/she can authorize someone to obtain the Police Record on his/her behalf. The processing time can be between 12 to 20 days, depending on the fee. Foreigners also can get a Police Record from the office. The original is green in color and is written in Khmer only.

So, I do have to get a police certificate - except for the fact that the documentation needed to get it doesn't exist in my case.

[*FishF00D* 45]

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/fees/reciprocity-by-country/CB.html

^^ Reciprocity schedule as stated on DOS website.

The question remains: has anyone else has ever used sworn testimony that they couldn't get a police certificate and been accepted?

[Limey 551]

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/fees/reciprocity-by-country/CB.html

^^ Reciprocity schedule as stated on DOS website.

The question remains: has anyone else has ever used sworn testimony that they couldn't get a police certificate and been accepted?

I would attempt to get the certificate. Hopefully they will give you some kind of rejection notice, and you can then use that to show that you attempted to get the certificate. The fact that they issue waivers for some countries is because they appreciate how difficult it can be to obtain these.

Also, you only spent a few months there... its more likely they'd want one if you'd spent eg many years there.

[*FishF00D* 45]

Thanks Limey.

Part of why I don't want to try to get the certificate (or go knowing that I'll get rejected) is because the cheapest flight from where I am to go to Cambodia is currently over $1,700 round trip within the time frame between now and my likely interview date --- and paying that cost while knowing I'll be rejected seems needless.

It's a 25hr flight trip to Phnom Penh, and from there I'd need to take a 7 hr bus ride to the coast where the Sangkat is.
All together, the trip would cost over $2,100 in transport, hotel/guesthouse stay, paying to try to get the certificate ($200 +) (or possible rejection letter)
In addition, the paperwork must be filled out in Khmer and I do not read or write the language so I would have to employ a reliable translator to make sure that I'm not being... pushed around perse. ($$$)

In all, a price tag of over $2,500 to appear in person to get a police certificate given that I don't speak the language strikes me as undue hardship -- particularly since I know that even if I do make it back to the Sangkat I was never issued a lease, so I'll be rejected after making the effort!

[MADDEN 40]

What about the friend who's guest house you stayed at, I read that someone can apply for the PC on your behalf if your no longer in the country.

[MADDEN 40]

What about the friend who's guest house you stayed at, I read that someone can apply for the PC on your behalf if your no longer in the country.

Also isn't it "All other countries you resided in over 1 year".....You said you were there 7 months, so your good.

POLICE CERTIFICATES/RECORDS: Each visa applicant aged 16 years or over is required to submit a police certificate from the police authorities of each locality of the country of the applicant’s nationality or current residence where the applicant has resided for at least six months since attaining the age of sixteen. Police certificates are also required from all other countries where the applicant has resided for at least one year.

[*FishF00D* 45]

What about the friend who's guest house you stayed at, I read that someone can apply for the PC on your behalf if your no longer in the country.

He stays in Cambodia managing the business 7 months of the year, and just returned to Canada last month for low season.. Timing, right?

I can't get him to file on my behalf since he's here, but he'd be the person I'd take with me to also swear to/notarize a statement confirming that I stayed at his guesthouse and that he didn't charge me for my stay (so no lease is available).

The 7mo. I spent in Cambo was in 2014, so by now other than this business-owner friend there aren't any other people that I know well enough to trust them to handle my info (copy of passport etc) - let alone who would be willing to ride a bus for 7 hr in each direction to Phnom Penh from the coast to do my paperwork on my behalf.

Sorry for so much explanation, this police cert. hoop feels like a distressing lesson in futility.

My now fiancé and I went to Cambo in 2014 because it was impossible to get work visas in US/Can to be together as a new couple and Cambo is an easy place to spend time together for long stretches - but had I known that it would be causing so much duress down the line I would have found another country to go to!

[*FishF00D* 45]

Also isn't it "All other countries you resided in over 1 year".....You said you were there 7 months, so your good.

POLICE CERTIFICATES/RECORDS: Each visa applicant aged 16 years or over is required to submit a police certificate from the police authorities of each locality of the country of the applicant’s nationality or current residence where the applicant has resided for at least six months since attaining the age of sixteen. Police certificates are also required from all other countries where the applicant has resided for at least one year.

^^^

The above you just sent says 6mo+ !

I have seen contradicting info online: some say to get certs. from places you've been for over one year, and some say more than 6 months - but the DOA website under K-1 classification also says "six months or more" is the measuring point so I'm trying to be prepared for all realities instead of assuming I'm good because I was there for under a year.

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/family/fiance-k-1.html#6

[MADDEN 40]

^^^

The above you just sent says 6mo+ !

I have seen contradicting info online: some say to get certs. from places you've been for over one year, and some say more than 6 months - but the DOA website under K-1 classification also says "six months or more" is the measuring point so I'm trying to be prepared for all realities instead of assuming I'm good because I was there for under a year.

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/family/fiance-k-1.html#6

I feel so bad for you, im sitting here trying to research this for you...what a huge pain in the butt...You know what i'd go with the notarized letter.

[MADDEN 40]

I feel so bad for you, im sitting here trying to research this for you...what a huge pain in the butt...You know what i'd go with the notarized letter.

Keep me posted, i'd like to know how this works out for..i wish you the very best of luck

[pch1 64]

Try to contact the ministry of justice. You can authorize someone to apply for the Police Certificate on your behalf. You should complete an authorization form (a sample of the form is available at the Criminal Office at the Ministry of Justice). The completed form can be submitted at the Criminal Office.

Ministry of Justice
#240 Sothearos Blvd., Phnom Penh,
Cambodia
Phone: (855)23 360327 / 363204 / 360421 / 360329 / 212693
Fax: (855)23 364119
E-Mail: moj@cambodia.gov.kh

[samack 79]

Also isn't it "All other countries you resided in over 1 year".....You said you were there 7 months, so your good.

POLICE CERTIFICATES/RECORDS: Each visa applicant aged 16 years or over is required to submit a police certificate from the police authorities of each locality of the country of the applicant’s nationality or current residence where the applicant has resided for at least six months since attaining the age of sixteen. Police certificates are also required from all other countries where the applicant has resided for at least one year.

I'm definitely no expert, and I'm sure that someone who knows a lot more than I do will comment on this at some point, but that just looks like a case of confusing wording. To me, what they're saying with "each locality of the country of the applicant's nationality or current residence where the applicant has resided for at least six months since attaining the age of sixteen" is technically asking for a police certificate from every city you've lived in in your home country (or current country of residence) for more than 6 months since turning sixteen. No one actually does this, of course, and I don't think they expect anything more than one police certificate for, say, Canada in general (which made me a bit nervous for a minute because I lived in Toronto for two years, but a quick search of the forums told me that one for every city is not necessary). So, as an example of how I read it: say you've lived in Canada for your whole life, but you moved to England 8 months ago and have listed that as your current address. You would need one police certificate for Canada, and one for England because you have that listed as where you're living now, even though you haven't been there for a full year yet. You spent 7 months in Cambodia, but as a tourist, and you're not currently living there. That would mean you don't need one for Cambodia because you're don't meet the "resided for at least a year" criteria.

That may add more confusion than it does help, and, again, I'm definitely not an expert, but that's how I'm reading those guidelines. Hopefully someone with more authority on this comes through with some help, though. Good luck!

[*FishF00D* 45]

I've just come across an excerpt from the actual handbook that the consular officers use to determine how to go about handling situations when documents are unavailable (as quoted from someone else in this forum on visajourney from 2011):

9 FAM 42.65 N6 UNOBTAINABLE DOCUMENTS

a. If a required document cannot be procured without causing the applicant or a family member actual hardship, other than normal delay or inconvenience, it may be considered “unobtainable,” and you may permit the applicant to submit other satisfactory evidence in lieu of such document or record, per 22 CFR 42.65(d). You should use this authority sparingly.

b. If you find that a required document is unobtainable, you must complete and sign Form FS-552, Certificate Regarding Documents Required by 22 CFR 42.65(b) Which Are Unobtainable, and attach to the Form FS-552 secondary evidence and/or a certificate from the appropriate authority, if obtainable, showing that in this particular case the missing document was never properly recorded.

...

9 FAM 42.65 N7 SECONDARY EVIDENCE IN LIEU OF SUPPORTING DOCUMENT

INA 222(b) (8 U.S.C. 1202(b)) prescribes the documentation required of applicants. It will be rare that a document listed as available in Visa Reciprocity and Country Documents Finder is unobtainable. If, however, you are satisfied that a document is unobtainable, the officer must require substitute documentation or secondary evidence. 22 CFR 42.65(d)(2) requires the consular officer “to affix a signed statement describing in detail the reasons for considering the record or document unobtainable and for accepting the particular secondary evidence attached to the visa.” (See 22 CFR 42.65(d).) In these cases, the applicant must submit proof of the unavailability of the missing document; for example, a statement from the local authorities that records for the year in question were destroyed by fire, or proof of the attempts made to obtain the document. When accepting substitute documentation or secondary evidence, you must complete Form FS-552, Certificate Regarding Documents Required by 22 CFR 42.65(b) Which Are Unobtainable, upon which the officer will make the statement required by 22 CFR 42.65(d)(2) and attach the Form FS-552 to the visa.

...

9 FAM 42.65 N8 APPLICANTS SUBMITTING OTHER SATISFACTORY EVIDENCE OF GOOD CONDUCT

If an applicant has presented a comprehensive police certificate fully meeting the requirements of 22 CFR 42.65© from the applicant’s country of principal residence, you need not require a police certificate from other places of former residence, provided the applicant presents other satisfactory evidence of good conduct. For example, it has been held that proof of membership in or affiliation with a reputable religious organization in a religious capacity during periods of foreign residence may be accepted as such evidence. However, if you have reason to believe that a police or criminal record might exist in the foreign country, which would render the alien ineligible to receive a visa, you must require the alien to obtain the police certificate. If the police certificate is not obtainable from the local authorities, the alien must present other convincing evidence that he is not ineligible to receive a visa.

So it seems to suggest that is I can satisfy the officer with information showing that the required documentation as needed to acquire the Police certificate does not exist. It does suggest attaching "proof of attempts made", which I'd like to think could include my notarized documents and supplementary evidence describing the process of getting the Cambodia certificate, and that it would not be available to me even if I flew there to try to find it. It sounds like it's on me to show valid proof and convincing evidence that the Police Certificate is unobtainable -- and from where I'm standing with the info I have, that does certainly seem to be the case.

Any second opinions?