Greivence with NVC: Provided incorrect information and now we are paying the price.

[KENBEN 0]

Hello fellow Visajourneyers,

I'm new to the forum and would like to share our experience thus far as well as ask for your recommendations and advice on how to proceed based on our case. I think the easiest way to explain would be a chronological step-by-step overview, but first I will note that we have a grievance with the NVC and USCIS based on incorrect/incomplete information provided to us. We are now facing ~3+ months of delay and thousands of dollars in unforeseen expenses. I've requested an expedited process twice based on misinformation on the part of the NVC/USCIS, but we've been denied both times.

- Immigrant Visa Prioity Date: 9/14/2015

- Visa Type: CR-1

- No legal assistance. We did not hire a lawyer and don't plan to at this time. We want to avoid this cost, but I realize now that it may have helped to avoid this issue.

- Me: American citizen by birth. Have lived most of my life in California.

- Her: Thai National, born and raised in Thailand. Land/property owner in Thailand. Has traveled extensively and lived in Paris for 3 years. Tri-lingual. Holds a 10 year multiple entry US tourist visa. No criminal record in any country.

- Us: We're both 37 years old. We met in Bangkok in 2007. In 2014 I moved to Thailand and we lived together there for a year. We were married in Thailand in November 2015. We then moved to France for a year. In Sept 2015, while in France, I petitioned for her immigrant visa. In Feb of this year we re-located back to California and continued the NVC process. Since my wife planned to return to Thailand to visit family we decided to not file to adjust her status.

Our grievance with the NVC / USCIS:

Our grievance has to do with the acquisition of my wife's "Police Certificate" (Police record) from the Royal Thai Police Department. We were provided incorrect information from the NVC when we called to ask how my wife could acquire this document while she was residing in California with me. In the end we were misinformed, or not informed at all regarding:

1) If this document is absolutely required by the NVC before scheduling the visa interview.

2) Time required to process the certificate

3) Option to assign a proxy to request the certificate if the requester is unable to be physically present.

4) Overall process for a Thai national to acquire their police certificate if not present in Thailand.

While collecting our supporting documentation we were not clear on how to obtain my wife's police certificate from Thailand while residing in the USA with me. The state.gov web site reciprocity information was unclear, at best.

ROYAL THAI POLICE:

~2/2016

She researched the process for acquiring her police certificate on the Royal Thai Police web site, then called the Royal Thai Police Dept in Bangkok directly and she was informed that:

1) She must be there in person to request her certificate.

2) If she's unable to be present herself she had the option of assigning a proxy to request the certificate on her behalf.

NVC:

2/17

We called the NVC and spoke to an agent. In short, the NVC agent checked reciprocity of this document in question and agreed that it was not feasible to acquire my wife's police certificate while she was in the USA and instructed us to include a letter explaining why we couldn't provide her police certificate prior to her interview and that she would have it in hand on the day of her interview.

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/fees/reciprocity-by-country/TH.html

NVC:

4/5

Over 30 days after the NCV had received our documents, my wife contacted the NVC as she waited for her return flight to Thailand from San Francisco. The agent informed her that our case was on hold, because we were not able to provide her Thai police certificate. Later that day I called NVC myself and spoke to an agent who stated:

1) per reciprocity there was no indication that we could not acquire the Thai police certificate while abroad, contradicting what the first agent told us.

2) Send an email to NVCExpedite@state.gov.

3) Offered to forward our case to the supervisor for further review.

This same day my wife flew back to Thailand...

ROYAL THAI POLICE:

4/7

My wife arrived in Bangkok and contacted the Royal Thai police again. She was informed that:

1) As of the beginning of this year the claimed processing time is 30 business days. NOT the 2-3 weeks noted in the NVC/USCIS denial letter we received that day (PST) to expedite our case and allow my wife to bring her police certificate with her to the interview.

http://www.pcscenter.sb.police.go.th/eng/news-detail-eng.php?newskey=28〈=eng

2) If she could not be physically present to request her certificate, she had the option of providing approval for a proxy, which she would have had to clear with the Royal Thai Police to physically go and request the certificate on her behalf. Only a photo copy of her passport would be required. The processing time remains the same in this case.

3) Because she is a Thai resident, but was staying with me here in CA after we relocated directly from France, she did not have the option of sending a request to the Royal Thai Police remotely.

NVC/USCIS:

4/7

Received an email from AskNVC with attached letter instructing us that we still needed to provide the Thai police certificate by sending it to the NVC.

4/8

Received an email from NVC expedite stating that the USCIS has denied our request to expedite our case.

4/19

Wife received her Thai police certificate, which showed that she had no police record. I FedEx'd it to the NVC to arrive 4/21.

Senator Diane Feinstein's Office, Department of visa assistance:

4/19: At the same time I prepared and sent a "Request for visa assistance" to Senator Feinstien's office in San Francisco.

NVC:

4/27: No notification from NVC of having received the document. Called NVC. Document received "4/25" and "No, there is nothing we can do for you. We review documents in the order they are received. The review time is now 45 days, up from 30 days."

Senator Feinstien's office:

~5/5

Called Senator Feinstien's office and spoke to a receptionist. Confirmed that they received my request of visa assistance, a case worker has been assigned along with a case ID ("People's ID") and the case worker has initiated contact with the NVC and is awaiting a response.

USCIS in Bangkok:

5/6

My wife physically went to the USCIS office as a walk-in and spoke to someone regarding our case. They understood our issue, but said that this is not in the USCIS's hands. Since the case file now resides with the NVC they hold all the cards and decisions. This is NOT what the NVC told us over the phone, or in the expedite@nvc email correspondence. They stated that any request for an expedited process would have to be cleared by the US Embassy. The US Embassy does not allow walk-in visits. In the end the USCIS agent could provide no assistance, or suggestions.

This is the last word I've heard regarding our case. It's beginning to sound like a classic case of receiving the runaround.

At this point we're prepared to suffer through this, but I refuse to let this go with no acknowledgement that the information provided was incorrect. The information must be reviewed and corrected to avoid such issues in the future.

If you've held-in there and read through this completely, I sincerely thank you.

Do any of you have any additional thoughts or suggestions for us? Any relevant comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. As I mentioned we're not very hopeful to see an expedited process at this point, but I just can't let this slide. This may seem like a minor error, but for the end-use, us, the impact is more than significant and totally unacceptable. My wife and I have dealt with resident visas in 3 different countries over the past 2 years and the US immigrant visa process is by far the most complex, tedious, time consuming and now most unreasonable process we've had to endure. I am starting to wonder why I should continue to contribute all of my hard earned money in taxes (sales, income, property) if we will be treated this way. I realize that our problem here may be very insignificant compared to others', but it's a problem non-the-less.

Thanks and Regards,

KenBen

[3rd 84]

I think the first thing that needs to be clarified is your timeline. You married in November 2015 but lived in France for a year after this? That would bring you to November 2016 and we're only in May 2016 right now. I'm more than a little confused, especially if you applied for a CR-1 because you wouldn't need to adjust status in the states because that's all part of the CR-1 process.

[Unshakable Faith 493]

I understand you frustrations.

I agree that your timeline is a bit off. Do you mean you married in 2014?

On the other hand, any US government agency (USCIS/NVC/DOS) cannot be held responsible for misinformation about another country's government. Their expertise is US affairs, not foreign affairs.

For instance, the document sent to me by the embassy in Nigeria says it can take up to 2 weeks for that police record (he actually got it the same day) and it is also required when he goes to his interview.

If we schedule his interview for June 1st and went to get the police report now, the US embassy cannot be responsible if for some reason it takes a month and we don't have it in time for the interview and are forced to reschedule.

I hope that all makes sense. With that being said, sometimes NVC is even misinformed about their own information. I don't think they can be held responsible for information given about another country when they have nothing to do with that country's affairs.

I pray this goes quickly for you!

[Unshakable Faith 493]

It's also important to note that you are dealing with 3 different US agencies. They do not necessarily have all the correct information about one another either.

I would suggest on-going that you get names of people that you talk to. You've done a great job of documenting your correspondences but always refer back to the agency websites or policy manuals for the correct information.

[gradtaai 8]

The police certificate now takes 5 weeks. I believe its because you used to be able to give to the "police life enhancement fund" to get in in a few days. I think there was talking to from the military that is in power now. You can go to the interview without the certificate, if she otherwise passes the interview, they will hold her passport and wait for the certificate to issue the visa.

[KENBEN 0]

First, thank you all for your replies!

You can go to the interview without the certificate, if she otherwise passes the interview, they will hold her passport and wait for the certificate to issue the visa.

Rabbit: This is not true in our case. The first NVC agent we spoke to said that we could simply add a letter in our supporting docs to the NVC explaining why we could not provide my wife's police certificate, then hand-carry the certificate with her at the time of her interview. This is the key point that messed everything up for us, because this is how we planned and proceeded. It wasn't until 31 days after the NVC received our documents that we called and learned that our case was on hold until the document could be provided. Meaning they would not proceed with scheduling the interview until they had the police certificate, of course with the allotted 45 days to review!

It's also important to note that you are dealing with 3 different US agencies. They do not necessarily have all the correct information about one another either.

I would suggest on-going that you get names of people that you talk to. You've done a great job of documenting your correspondences but always refer back to the agency websites or policy manuals for the correct information.

I understand you frustrations.
I agree that your timeline is a bit off. Do you mean you married in 2014?

On the other hand, any US government agency (USCIS/NVC/DOS) cannot be held responsible for misinformation about another country's government. Their expertise is US affairs, not foreign affairs.

For instance, the document sent to me by the embassy in Nigeria says it can take up to 2 weeks for that police record (he actually got it the same day) and it is also required when he goes to his interview.

If we schedule his interview for June 1st and went to get the police report now, the US embassy cannot be responsible if for some reason it takes a month and we don't have it in time for the interview and are forced to reschedule.

I hope that all makes sense. With that being said, sometimes NVC is even misinformed about their own information. I don't think they can be held responsible for information given about another country when they have nothing to do with that country's affairs.

I pray this goes quickly for you!

Yes. Sorry. Married in 2015 is a typo. We were married in Bangkok in November 2014.

Agreed! I now ask and note down all dates, times, and names of those I speak to over the phone. Another case of "if I knew then what I know now..."

And believe me, I understand how diffcult it can be to keep all the information straight between government agencies. Particularly with a country like Thailand that changes rules, litteraly, on a daily basis. In many cases it's who you speak to on any given day. This still doesn't excuse the NVC agent who told us that my wife could hand-carry the Police Certificate to her interview. These instructions are really the basis of the error and the snowball effect afterwards. The processing times and other incorrect info is secondary.

KenBen

[Unshakable Faith 493]

First, thank you all for your replies!

Rabbit: This is not true in our case. The first NVC agent we spoke to said that we could simply add a letter in our supporting docs to the NVC explaining why we could not provide my wife's police certificate, then hand-carry the certificate with her at the time of her interview. This is the key point that messed everything up for us, because this is how we planned and proceeded. It wasn't until 31 days after the NVC received our documents that we called and learned that our case was on hold until the document could be provided. Meaning they would not proceed with scheduling the interview until they had the police certificate, of course with the allotted 45 days to review!

Yes. Sorry. Married in 2015 is a typo. We were married in Bangkok in November 2014.

Agreed! I now ask and note down all dates, times, and names of those I speak to over the phone. Another case of "if I knew then what I know now..."

And believe me, I understand how diffcult it can be to keep all the information straight between government agencies. Particularly with a country like Thailand that changes rules, litteraly, on a daily basis. In many cases it's who you speak to on any given day. This still doesn't excuse the NVC agent who told us that my wife could hand-carry the Police Certificate to her interview. These instructions are really the basis of the error and the snowball effect afterwards. The processing times and other incorrect info is secondary.

KenBen

Unfortunately it's a hit or miss sometimes. Just remember to always make sure you're contacting the agency responsible for what you're asking.

In retrospect, you should have contacted the embassy to see if she could have her police certificate on the day of interview, since they are the interviewing agency.

Although NVC should have known that they couldn't further process your case and send it to the embassy until everything was turned in (including the police report). We see misinformation far too often.

I pray everything runs much smoother for you now!

[gradtaai 8]

Yes, I miss understood. I thought since your wife was now in Thailand that she was dealing with the embassy here. Sorry . I see you caught my username

[matmertin2016 4]

First, thank you all for your replies!

Rabbit: This is not true in our case. The first NVC agent we spoke to said that we could simply add a letter in our supporting docs to the NVC explaining why we could not provide my wife's police certificate, then hand-carry the certificate with her at the time of her interview. This is the key point that messed everything up for us, because this is how we planned and proceeded. It wasn't until 31 days after the NVC received our documents that we called and learned that our case was on hold until the document could be provided. Meaning they would not proceed with scheduling the interview until they had the police certificate, of course with the allotted 45 days to review!

Yes. Sorry. Married in 2015 is a typo. We were married in Bangkok in November 2014.

Agreed! I now ask and note down all dates, times, and names of those I speak to over the phone. Another case of "if I knew then what I know now..."

And believe me, I understand how diffcult it can be to keep all the information straight between government agencies. Particularly with a country like Thailand that changes rules, litteraly, on a daily basis. In many cases it's who you speak to on any given day. This still doesn't excuse the NVC agent who told us that my wife could hand-carry the Police Certificate to her interview. These instructions are really the basis of the error and the snowball effect afterwards. The processing times and other incorrect info is secondary.

KenBen

So you are excusing yourself in all of this!? Do you know what 'Due Diligence' is!? Your like the joe schmo investor that loses everything on the stock market and then says cries because the guy on tv told me the stock was gonna sky rocket!?

Next time exercise the power of 'Due Diligence' and the ownership yourself... in the end you're the one that suffers and you're the one to blame!